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It probably has, but it seems to me the first step is to change the socioeconomic state, not the behaviors. Money changes everything. Set up a system where people can get decent jobs and move up in life, and their views and habits change.
There will always be Beverly Hillbillies. But history in general shows that give people a stake in a society and they act differently.
I think it has to happen and be made to work on both issues. Like I said, the researcher on the news hour rema
All large cities are Democratic strongholds, and some of us are doing quite well, thank you.
Minneapolis has best U.S. city park system in new ranking | Reuters
Blogs I do not find credible. If you can find stories of police forces making their numbers rosier, then I will give it a serious look. My guess is this happens on lower levels of crime, but major crimes are harder to hide."Credible evidence?" What is that exactly to you? If you are asking for me to continue to dig up stats for you to dismiss because you don't agree with them, or the picture they paint, then no, I am not going to let you define what is, or what isn't "credible" simply because you refuse to accept valid information.
This is what I was getting at. There is reason why these types of violent acts happen in predominantly the South and West Sides. Going back to the 'Broken Windows Theory' when you are okay with small crimes that mentality leads to larger crimes happening like what you are seeing now. Until that mentality is broken, then crime will still persist.As for the North side of Chicago vs. the South side, and related crime stats, I would say that it has to do with income demographics, and social status of the people that afford to live there. Keep in mind that there are different stats of different crimes that may be more prevalent in the North side vs. the South side....
You are misconstruing what I said in that last post. I did not mean to insult, though since you interpretted it that way, I apologize for it. After you said you were born in Berwyn I took your word for it.As for me knowing what I am talking about, I already made you eat your assumption that I had no idea of what Chicago was, or how the make up of that city laid out...Now you want to insult me more by insinuating that I don't know what I am talking about? Screw that. Either you want to have a civilized conversation or you don't. Either way is fine with me, I can have that conversation, or just ignore your ignorant trollings.
Earlier comments you made it sound like the CPD were not taking adequate steps to fight gang violence in the city. In retrospect I misinterpretted what you said.On McCarthy, what about what I said or posted made you think that I was not in approval of the job he was doing?
As you know Chicago is one of the most segregated cities in the United States. The city did something similar here when they tore down Cabrini Green and relocated those living there. It did not work as well as everyone was hoping, but it does not sound as bad as what happened in Baltimore.Racial Segregation of the City? What do you mean by that? Let me tell you what happens when liberals start in with that canard...In Baltimore, while O'Malley was Mayor, they wanted to get rid of the High Rise Section 8 cess pools and integrate those receiving housing assistance into better neighborhoods in the city, and even to nearby suburbs like Edgewood....It was a huge failure! All that happened is that they spread the crime out all over, and the values of these better off neighborhoods fell. Now they are mostly boarded up eye sores.
For a part of my life I lived in various cities in Wisconsin, a state which my Illinois friends call the most southern state in the North. I absolutely love the state. Though from time to time I miss living relatively close to a major city like Chicago.And whether or not the South is in the lower income ratios in the nation, we also have a much lower cost of living...And beautiful friendly people, and landscapes. We aren't packed in like ants.
*snip*
Blogs I do not find credible. If you can find stories of police forces making their numbers rosier, then I will give it a serious look. My guess is this happens on lower levels of crime, but major crimes are harder to hide.
Violent crime rate in 2009
North Chicago: 323.4
U.S. Average: 238.0
Read more: Crime rate in North Chicago, Illinois (IL): murders, rapes, robberies, assaults, burglaries, thefts, auto thefts, arson, law enforcement employees, police officers statistics
This is what I was getting at. There is reason why these types of violent acts happen in predominantly the South and West Sides. Going back to the 'Broken Windows Theory' when you are okay with small crimes that mentality leads to larger crimes happening like what you are seeing now. Until that mentality is broken, then crime will still persist.
You are misconstruing what I said in that last post. I did not mean to insult, though since you interpretted it that way, I apologize for it. After you said you were born in Berwyn I took your word for it.
Earlier comments you made it sound like the CPD were not taking adequate steps to fight gang violence in the city. In retrospect I misinterpretted what you said.
As you know Chicago is one of the most segregated cities in the United States. The city did something similar here when they tore down Cabrini Green and relocated those living there. It did not work as well as everyone was hoping, but it does not sound as bad as what happened in Baltimore.
I would rather the city look at zoning laws and other laws that help keep the status quo as it is. Over time, the hope would be that with less zoning the city would begin to diversify organically though that is a really long-term outlook.
For a part of my life I lived in various cities in Wisconsin, a state which my Illinois friends call the most southern state in the North. I absolutely love the state. Though from time to time I miss living relatively close to a major city like Chicago.
*Yawn* Typical bull**** conservative argument.
Interesting that they both have been under progressive/liberal leadership for ever. Coincidence? I think not.
When this is what you bring to the table, what is there to debate?
I mean, c'mon, you don't even have an argument here.
Just "Well, I think progressives/liberals are responsible. My reasoning? **** you, that's my reasoning."
I don't? Tell me, what have liberal/progressive stranglehold over these cities brought to the people there? Prosperity? Rule of law? Greater education? Greater understanding of those that don't buy into the progressive meme? No, none of that. Tell me, why are houses in Detroit and Chicago's inner cities for sale for $1, and still not selling? When you see signs like those outside of Detroit, that basically say "Welcome to Detroit, enter at your own risk." What does that say to you?
Students leaving Proviso East High School on their last day of school May 31 were involved in a fight that carried into the streets of Maywood for several hours, police said.
At least 10 students were arrested, including a girl allegedly using two chef’s knives after being beaten down by other students, and the fight required more than 40 officers from neighboring agencies including Oak Park, Forest Park, Westchester, Bellwood and Broadview, Maywood Police Chief Tim Curry said.
At times the group was 300 strong, Curry said, with people gathering to watch the disturbance.
According to the Cook County Sheriff's Office and Maywood Police, the fights occurred across the street from the school and traveled west.
Proviso Township High Schools, however, said in a statement that the fights occurred nearly a mile from Proviso East High School near the intersection of Ninth Avenue and Madison Street.
The district also said that witness accounts show that other adults and former students joined in the disturbance.
"Our school year ended without any incident, and we are very pleased to report that," the district said in a statement. "However, situations do happen in the community that involve our students, and while we are always concerned, it is not something over which we have any jurisdiction nor control."
Three students were taken to Loyola Medical Center with minor injuries, including one girl who was struck over the eye with a lock, Curry said.
The fights were recorded on students’ cell phones and posted to YouTube and Facebook.
Maywood Police reportedly said the fight tied up police for hours and is still under investigation.
Now you're just going off on a tangent.
Do you know what evidence is? Do you know what a proper argument is? Let me clue you in, it's not just making statements without sources backing them up.
Lets not expand this net. Let's not ask stupid questions like "Why are houses in Detroit and Chicago inner cities for sale for $1, and still not selling." and then assume its because of Progressivism/Liberalism because, hey, I hate those two ideologies.
Lets try and stick to the topic you presented in the Op. Your own link:
Source: 10 Arrested in Student Brawl Near Proviso East High School | NBC Chicago
Now, I want you to explain to me what specific progressive/liberal policies were responsible for the incident brought up in your Op.
I'm not asking a lot out of you. I'm asking you to do the research and come up with a well thought out argument.
Oooh ooh can I explain ??
Hmmm lets see...
Welfare laws that enable generational dependence AND single parent homes.
Political Correctness that stifles honest debate which leads to ZERO being done about the collapse of inner city schools, neighborhoods and cultures.
Attacks on the conventional Family unit and the empowerment of single mothers as a viable alternative to raising children effectively.
The legitimization of destructive counter culture sterotypes. That includes the whole " Hip Hop" culture, the gang culture, the mysoginistic music that promotes violence and irresponsible behaviour......hey Obama loves him some Jay-Z....lol what a fu** Country this has become.
I don't? Tell me, what have liberal/progressive stranglehold over these cities brought to the people there? Prosperity? Rule of law? Greater education? Greater understanding of those that don't buy into the progressive meme? No, none of that.
Tell me, why are houses in Detroit and Chicago's inner cities for sale for $1, and still not selling? When you see signs like those outside of Detroit, that basically say "Welcome to Detroit, enter at your own risk." What does that say to you?
San Diego - the "Detroit" of Southern California. :roll:So if San Diego was run by Republicans for years, and if it went bankrupt (it did) it proves that conservatism leads cities to bankruptcy. Gotcha.
233 posts, and we all know by this comment that you are not here in DP to debate anything....Thanks for proving it early on....Now we can just ignore your lunacy.
Is that kinda like you refusing to actually back up youre comments from the OP? Your inability to explain why similar incidents occur is geographically, culturally and politically diverse areas of the country but in this case it must be because of liberals? Or how you ran away when challenged on it?
Oooh ooh can I explain ??
Hmmm lets see...
Welfare laws that enable generational dependence AND single parent homes.
Political Correctness that stifles honest debate which leads to ZERO being done about the collapse of inner city schools, neighborhoods and cultures.
Attacks on the conventional Family unit and the empowerment of single mothers as a viable alternative to raising children effectively.
The legitimization of destructive counter culture sterotypes. That includes the whole " Hip Hop" culture, the gang culture, the mysoginistic music that promotes violence and irresponsible behaviour......hey Obama loves him some Jay-Z....lol what a fu** Country this has become.
Still lying about others, as you yourself break the rules eh?....Keep it up missy.....
I can't believe this silly topic is still being
"debated". This is why conservatives are not scientists, because they are BAD at it. You have to prove things with evidence. You have to use solid reasoning and logic, follow strict rules, etc. You can't just make **** up and say "I believe this, I believe that" because it COULD be true.
I'll let you guys in on a little secret. The question you're asking, whether or not liberalism is the cause of downfall of Chicago, Detroit, etc. is a really big, complex question. To discover whether it is true, with much accuracy or confidence, would take a massive study, involving thousands of variables, arguments. Pages and pages of critical though, analysis, etc.
Throwing around a couple dumb ass assertions "destruction of the family unit", "welfare did it", is nothing more than a guess you pulled out of your ass because you want to believe it, it means nothing.
Why not look at cities like Portland, San Francisco, Seattle, the Scandinavian countries? Those areas are heavily influenced by liberal/progressive views, and they are unequivocal successes. Are they just outliers?
Feel free.
Waiting...
Welfare creates dependancy?
This is conjecture, without some kind of study or evidence to support this assertion.
...You're right, inner city schools don't ever discuss how poorly they're making out. They won't even acknowledge the problem, what do they expect when they're being so PC!?
This is conjecture, again. You've not provided evidence of anything.
This one's an old conservative standard, though it too is usually a lacking argument.
Luckily for you, people at least actually research and study the trend towards single motherhood, either in support or denouncement. It should be easy for you to find relevant links to studies citing the disadvantages single motherhood imparts on children and inner city families.
In short, you need more evidence and less opinion.
Your talking points belong in the late 80s and early 90s. Ascribing to hip hop culture isn't the same as ascribing to gang culture, particularly as the mainstream music genre has moved away from the Gangsta Rap trend of those eras.
Though I agree that misogyny in hip hop music is a problem, it still isn't the issue we're discussing.
You've yet to actually cite or reference any specific policies (as I asked for) that display a connection between progressive/liberalism in these cities and the brawl at Proviso East high school. I'd wait, but I'm starting to realize you don't have any, you like J-Mac have a lot of ranting and grievances that doesn't actually connect to the incident presented in the opening post.
Ciao.
*Gasp*...how " scientific of you. You quoted studies, posted links, offered up objective evidence to support your assertion....
No, no you didn't. You hypocritically criticized Conservatives for their opinions and than made a few of your own.
Your a Lib, so I wouldn't expect you to have the intelectual capacity or integrity to see the obvious and post the truth.
You're a "Con" so you have the intellectual capacity of a drunk tank regular. You really think I'm going to spend all day researching this topic, gathering information, creating documents, creating a presentation... all so that I can bestow it upon the best minds of the DP forum? LoL. The fact that you think I should actually refute this with my own argument shows that you still don't get it. Its way too big a leap. You can't prove something like that on a whim.
All I did was point out how utterly silly your "so sure" rantings about liberalism destroying Chicago was.
Moderator's Warning: |
Oh really ? I promise I'm levels above you intellectually and if you want to stop acting like the typical liberal coward and debate ANYTHING with me, I'll prove it to everyone here.
But I'm sure you have just a huge list of ideological accomplishments you can credit to your corrupted ideology.
I can't take you seriously when you talk like this. This hyperbole of Obama being the worst ever, incompetent, corrupt... that's going way too far. Yes they spun Benghazi because it was an election issue, shame on them. Was this spinning the worst thing ever though? Did it kill anyone? There's no evidence they did anything other than spin it, so just STFU with your expected "HE KILLED 4 PROUD AMERICANS" response.A corrupt and incompetent President and administration, a long list of lying Democrats and Cabinet officials and appointed criminals like Eric Holder, Hillary Clinton, Franklin Raines, Harry Reid, Sandy Berger, Bill Clinton, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, ...........hell the list is endless.
You guys actually voted a media creation into office, not a leader, who was not vetted in the least, and who has blown through 6 trillion in new debt, and has little to no net new jobs after nearly 5 years and has his FED appointee currently pumping trillions into our financial markets for the purpose of giving the "impression" of a recovery.
When in fact 10's of millions of Americans have been added to the food stamp roles, poverty has climbed to 1 in 6, and 1 in 5 among American children, Americans on disability have doubled under your LIBERAL President and the Middle Class has shrunk to record low levels.
So please explain, why you should be considered anything more than the millions of faceless idiots that voted twice for a empty suite, a President who plays dumb in the face of multiple scandals.
Americans have been introduced under Liberalism to a new reality called " chronic joblessness" as States, " Liberal Blue Plague States " are toying with the notion of bankruptcy.
Detroit, another city destroyed by your corrupt ideology just announced it wouldn't be paying it's creditors...
I'll wait to hear your ridiculous list of " accomplishment" that you can chalk up to your political lean.....
I'm sure it will be hillarious.
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