10-10-10 plan

[laska]

I'll always give respect to the Pokemon quoting best political ad ever CEO of best pizza Mr. Cain. All rates are flat no deductions.

0% on income below $18,000
10% on income between $18,000-250,000
10% additional tax on income above 250,000 (those above 250,000 will have 20%)
10% additional tax on income above 1,000,000 (30% rates)
0% corporate income tax
0% capital gains tax on ipo
capital gains tax the same as regular income rates on all other non ipo trading
10% federal sales tax with exemptions on whole foods, rent, etc



Have no idea if this revenue neutral or not but it covers all the main wants of Right and Left. It is a max growth and max revenue tax code that is max simplified and eliminates the inefficient mass of accountants needed with current code, it supports economic freedom with low rates for max amount of people possible with current budget, and gets more revenue from the small percentage of population that holds a high percentage of the wealth created in the economy but not at so high rates to undercut incentive of entrepreneurs. It gets the underground economy, old money.

 

[justabubba]

I'll always give respect to the Pokemon quoting best political ad ever CEO of best pizza Mr. Cain. All rates are flat no deductions.

0% on income below $18,000
10% on income between $18,000-250,000
10% additional tax on income above 250,000 (those above 250,000 will have 20%)
10% additional tax on income above 1,000,000 (30% rates)
0% corporate income tax
0% capital gains tax on ipo
capital gains tax the same as regular income rates on all other non ipo trading
10% federal sales tax with exemptions on whole foods, rent, etc



Have no idea if this revenue neutral or not but it covers all the main wants of Right and Left. It is a max growth and max revenue tax code that is max simplified and eliminates the inefficient mass of accountants needed with current code, it supports economic freedom with low rates for max amount of people possible with current budget, and gets more revenue from the small percentage of population that holds a high percentage of the wealth created in the economy but not at so high rates to undercut incentive of entrepreneurs.

would you be willing to tax every financial transaction, such as those the banks are not being taxed on today

 

[Mycroft]

Take away the sales tax and I could go along with this...but I think you would get a bunch of howls from the low to middle class people who would suddenly be paying the 10% tax hike. Or do you propose to allow the current deductions that now reduce their tax to zero?

 

[JP Hochbaum]

I'll always give respect to the Pokemon quoting best political ad ever CEO of best pizza Mr. Cain. All rates are flat no deductions.

0% on income below $18,000
10% on income between $18,000-250,000
10% additional tax on income above 250,000 (those above 250,000 will have 20%)
10% additional tax on income above 1,000,000 (30% rates)
0% corporate income tax
0% capital gains tax on ipo
capital gains tax the same as regular income rates on all other non ipo trading
10% federal sales tax with exemptions on whole foods, rent, etc



Have no idea if this revenue neutral or not but it covers all the main wants of Right and Left. It is a max growth and max revenue tax code that is max simplified and eliminates the inefficient mass of accountants needed with current code, it supports economic freedom with low rates for max amount of people possible with current budget, and gets more revenue from the small percentage of population that holds a high percentage of the wealth created in the economy but not at so high rates to undercut incentive of entrepreneurs. It gets the underground economy, old money.

I wouldn't tax people until they hit $250k per year.

Also we need to tax capital gains, it is helpful in reducing inflation and financial collapses.

No need for sales taxes either.

Doesn't need to be revenue neutral since taxes are inflation control and not needed to fund the feds (they print their own revenue).

Not to be critical for I think this is far better than what we have now and would compromise to take this, just had to add my two cents

 

[Lutherf]

I'll always give respect to the Pokemon quoting best political ad ever CEO of best pizza Mr. Cain. All rates are flat no deductions.

0% on income below $18,000
10% on income between $18,000-250,000
10% additional tax on income above 250,000 (those above 250,000 will have 20%)
10% additional tax on income above 1,000,000 (30% rates)
0% corporate income tax
0% capital gains tax on ipo
capital gains tax the same as regular income rates on all other non ipo trading
10% federal sales tax with exemptions on whole foods, rent, etc



Have no idea if this revenue neutral or not but it covers all the main wants of Right and Left. It is a max growth and max revenue tax code that is max simplified and eliminates the inefficient mass of accountants needed with current code, it supports economic freedom with low rates for max amount of people possible with current budget, and gets more revenue from the small percentage of population that holds a high percentage of the wealth created in the economy but not at so high rates to undercut incentive of entrepreneurs. It gets the underground economy, old money.

Why limit the cap gains rate just to gains from IPO's? Why exclude gains from the sale of investment property?

Would you require everyone to file a return and eliminate the MFJ status?

Would the sales tax apply only at the end user point or would it apply on all transactions?

Would you also eliminate excise taxes and payroll taxes?

 

[Daize]

I wouldn't tax people until they hit $250k per year.

Personally I would say not until 150k per annum, but I do agree with the general principal.

 

[laska]

Why limit the cap gains rate just to gains from IPO's? Why exclude gains from the sale of investment property?

Goal is to max revenue and growth. I want to give companies looking to raise revenue for growth of their companies the greatest possible liquididty with 0% rates. Thise who are just trading stock or reselling investments is not real economic growth so I am trying to maximize revenue here without undermining incentive

Would you require everyone to file a return and eliminate the MFJ status?

Yes

Would the sales tax apply only at the end user point or would it apply on all transactions?

at end user point

Would you also eliminate excise taxes and payroll taxes?

yes

 

[laska]

would you be willing to tax every financial transaction, such as those the banks are not being taxed on today

Not sure I understand question. The profits of banks will be taxed when they are released as dividends to shareholders and salaries.

 

[Rainman05]

I'm pretty sure Herman Cain had such a plan. He could tell you, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It has all sort of "holes" through it.

Herman Cain

 

[Missed AB]

[
Would the sales tax apply only at the end user point or would it apply on all transactions?

at end user point

What is the end user?
Sells tomato and processes for seeds. is that taxed?
Sells tomato seed. Is that taxed? It turns into a tomato for resale.
Sells tomato. Is that taxed? It is truned into ketchup.
Sells ketchup, is that taxed? It is put on hamburgers.
When the burger is sold is it taxed? How does the government police the different stages of what is the end use of the product?
Maybe that hamburger is put into a box, and resold frozen at BJ's... Is it taxed there?
That boxed burger is bought at BJ's and is then defrausted and resold at a bar, is it taxed there?

It does not seem possible to trace this production line and define where the tax should occur. too open for debate and it will not have a lot of payers of the tax since it is so full of loop holes to not pay the tax.

 

[laska]

What is the end user?
Sells tomato and processes for seeds. is that taxed?
Sells tomato seed. Is that taxed? It turns into a tomato for resale.
Sells tomato. Is that taxed? It is truned into ketchup.
Sells ketchup, is that taxed? It is put on hamburgers.
When the burger is sold is it taxed? How does the government police the different stages of what is the end use of the product?
Maybe that hamburger is put into a box, and resold frozen at BJ's... Is it taxed there?
That boxed burger is bought at BJ's and is then defrausted and resold at a bar, is it taxed there?

It does not seem possible to trace this production line and define where the tax should occur. too open for debate and it will not have a lot of payers of the tax since it is so full of loop holes to not pay the tax.

All I was saying is that it is not a gross receipt tax where there is a pyramid effect where sales tax is applied more than once from production to end product. States and many nations do the type of sales tax I am talking about so it certainly is not rocket science and can be done. Damn.

 

[laska]

What is the end user?
Sells tomato and processes for seeds. is that taxed?
Sells tomato seed. Is that taxed? It turns into a tomato for resale.
Sells tomato. Is that taxed? It is truned into ketchup.
Sells ketchup, is that taxed? It is put on hamburgers.
When the burger is sold is it taxed? How does the government police the different stages of what is the end use of the product?
Maybe that hamburger is put into a box, and resold frozen at BJ's... Is it taxed there?
That boxed burger is bought at BJ's and is then defrausted and resold at a bar, is it taxed there?

It does not seem possible to trace this production line and define where the tax should occur. too open for debate and it will not have a lot of payers of the tax since it is so full of loop holes to not pay the tax.

No sales tax on goods heading for resale. So a tomato farmer selling to a ketchup company there will be no sales tax. Ketchup company selling to Mcdonalds no sales tax. Person buying hamburger from Mcdonalds WILL pay sales tax.

 

[Missed AB]

No sales tax on goods heading for resale. So a tomato farmer selling to a ketchup company there will be no sales tax. Ketchup company selling to Mcdonalds no sales tax. Person buying hamburger from Mcdonalds WILL pay sales tax.

So how do you enforce it? Granted it is easy to distinguish when it is MCD. But There are hot-dog trucks, a deli, a mom and pop place. Do you give them a tax free ID? So anyone who owns a sub S corp can participate in this tax free purchasing?

For example I have a sub S corp. What is to stop me from claiming every purchase in the name of the company? Currently I need to keep recipits for expenses. And I can't show more expense than income. However, in your plan, there is no way to keep it in check. I'll send my wife to the supermarket with the Tax ID card. She can buy from us, go back and buy for her mother... This is the mother of all loop holes.

 

[laska]

So how do you enforce it? Granted it is easy to distinguish when it is MCD. But There are hot-dog trucks, a deli, a mom and pop place. Do you give them a tax free ID? So anyone who owns a sub S corp can participate in this tax free purchasing?

For example I have a sub S corp. What is to stop me from claiming every purchase in the name of the company? Currently I need to keep recipits for expenses. And I can't show more expense than income. However, in your plan, there is no way to keep it in check. I'll send my wife to the supermarket with the Tax ID card. She can buy from us, go back and buy for her mother... This is the mother of all loop holes.

How does each state and nation who have a non gross receipt sales tax accomplish this? Why not eliminate our current income tax, it's extremely easy to lie on returns, why have a tax code at all? Since any tax code is likely to be easy for cheaters to get around, why not just eliminate any revenue arm for government. Eliminate government. Live in tribes.

 

[laska]

My dream scenario would be this tax code would cover total government revenue, federal/state/local, no other taxes at any level of government, and a constitutional amendment that sets these rates as ceiling rates to protect economic freedom, and to adopt a federally funded and state run single payer catastrophic health insurance. I wish I knew what type of revenue this tax code would bring in, and what current costs of government at all levels plus private health costs that my single payer plan would cover, and see how much spending would have to be cut. I believe these costs likely can be cut in neighborhood of 70% if we had smart public policy.

 

[imagep]

My tax plan:

0% income tax on income that is within the normal range (99% of people have less than $400k in total income)

An "excess income tax" on everyone who has income over the normal range, the rate should be as little as possible and still balance the budget up to the point where we can print enough money and still keep inflation between 0% and 3%

All forms of income, wages and salaries, bonuses, commisions, tips, gifts, inheritance, dividends, and inflation adjusted realized profits from investments would all be treated exactly the same. A three year income average would be permitted every three years.

An elimination of all income tax deductions and income tax credits.

A stiff import duty on fossel fuels and an additional 20% sales tax on the retail sale of fossel fuels (to ensure that EVERYONE pays some taxes, even if they are taxes passed along to the consumer embedded in the price of stuff).

Significant import duties on products from any country that does not meet minimal protections on labor and the environment.

An elimination of all government subsidies on everything.

Elimination of all means tested welfare.

Elimination of minimum wage, replaced by the effective minimum wage that a "government jobs as a last resort" program insuring full employment at all times of those who are willing to work.

Elimination of corporate taxes, and a requirment for profitable companies to pay out dividends of a minimum of 60% of annual profits in profitable years (allowing a three year income average every three years).

 

[Missed AB]

How does each state and nation who have a non gross receipt sales tax accomplish this? Why not eliminate our current income tax, it's extremely easy to lie on returns, why have a tax code at all? Since any tax code is likely to be easy for cheaters to get around, why not just eliminate any revenue arm for government. Eliminate government. Live in tribes.

That's quite the slippery slope. Maybe the problem is your plan, and not me.

It is one thing to "cheat" on your taxes. It is quite another to leave the store and be able to sell the merchandise in the parking lot for cash and make 5% on the transaction just because of a loop hole in the tax code. What if my business model was to resell Walmart merchandise? I walk in and out of walmart all day, reselling whatever is in my shopping cart. Anyone who offers me cash gets it for MSRP + 5%. What's that officer, I'm not doing anything illegal. I will log all these sales and pay the tax next week.

 

[laska]

No it's you.

 

[laska]

My tax plan:

0% income tax on income that is within the normal range (99% of people have less than $400k in total income)

An "excess income tax" on everyone who has income over the normal range, the rate should be as little as possible and still balance the budget up to the point where we can print enough money and still keep inflation between 0% and 3%

All forms of income, wages and salaries, bonuses, commisions, tips, gifts, inheritance, dividends, and inflation adjusted realized profits from investments would all be treated exactly the same. A three year income average would be permitted every three years.

An elimination of all income tax deductions and income tax credits.

A stiff import duty on fossel fuels and an additional 20% sales tax on the retail sale of fossel fuels (to ensure that EVERYONE pays some taxes, even if they are taxes passed along to the consumer embedded in the price of stuff).

Significant import duties on products from any country that does not meet minimal protections on labor and the environment.

An elimination of all government subsidies on everything.

Elimination of all means tested welfare.

Elimination of minimum wage, replaced by the effective minimum wage that a "government jobs as a last resort" program insuring full employment at all times of those who are willing to work.

Elimination of corporate taxes, and a requirment for profitable companies to pay out dividends of a minimum of 60% of annual profits in profitable years (allowing a three year income average every three years).

So what taxes would you have to get government revenue equal to costs of government? If you mean just to tax the 1% and fossil fuels that won't come close to equaling government costs. I like your elimination of subsidies. If i suported the fossil fuel tax like you proposed I would let trucking industry, shipping, those things that effect the price of goods, an exemption to keep prices down. My methodology of getting economy on renewable energy is not to artificially raise prices on fossil fuels and subsidize for example electric cars with government cash back, or giving 90 billion to green companies. I think the 90 billion would have been better going into research into game changing technologies or with helping those companies that have game changing technologies under development, that will be able to beat fossil fuels natural costs.

 

[laska]

That's quite the slippery slope. Maybe the problem is your plan, and not me.

It is one thing to "cheat" on your taxes. It is quite another to leave the store and be able to sell the merchandise in the parking lot for cash and make 5% on the transaction just because of a loop hole in the tax code. What if my business model was to resell Walmart merchandise? I walk in and out of walmart all day, reselling whatever is in my shopping cart. Anyone who offers me cash gets it for MSRP + 5%. What's that officer, I'm not doing anything illegal. I will log all these sales and pay the tax next week.

So stupid. You are saying since any store owner now can sell their stuff in the parking lot and pocket the sales tax, that having a sales tax is unworkable even if states have had sales taxes like i am talking about in my plan for like forever. You must dislike our current income tax because I can go to any store owner right now, in the parking lot, ask him to let me pay cash for something at a discount, and he wouldn't have to pay income taxes on it. No tax plan can stand up to such logic.

 

[Missed AB]

So stupid. You are saying since any store owner now can sell their stuff in the parking lot and pocket the sales tax, that having a sales tax is unworkable even if states have had sales taxes like i am talking about in my plan for like forever. You must dislike our current income tax because I can go to any store owner right now, in the parking lot, ask him to let me pay cash for something at a discount, and he wouldn't have to pay income taxes on it. No tax plan can stand up to such logic.

Do you not understand your own plan?

The difference between today and what you are wanting to do gives instant incentive to cheat. I am not talking about a store owner. I am talking about any of the millions of people who own a Sub S corp. and the hundreds of millions who will apply for a sub s corp once this law is passed. Anyone with a sub S can then buy something under the pretext that they will resell it. that person in line in the same store as you will pay 10% less and then turn around and sell it to you for 5% more avoiding all taxes on that product and there is no way to oversee that transaction. There is no accountability or any way to oversee this giant loophole. The only thing stupid here is Your comment that it's stupid.

Do you not get it?

 

[laska]

What I am offering to do is not new. The kind of sales tax I am talking about is widely used in the U.S.

Sales tax in the United States-Wikipedia:

"Unlike the value added tax, a sales tax is imposed only once, at the retail level. However, in cases where items are sold at retail more than once, such as used cars, the sales tax can be charged on the same item indefinitely.
The definition of retail sales and what goods and services are taxable vary among the states. Nearly all jurisdictions provide numerous categories of goods and services that are exempt from sales tax, or taxed at reduced rates. The purchase of goods for further manufacture or for resale is uniformly exempt from sales tax. Most jurisdictions exempt food sold in grocery stores, prescription medications, and many agricultural supplies.

 

[laska]

I wouldn't tax people until they hit $250k per year.

Also we need to tax capital gains, it is helpful in reducing inflation and financial collapses.

No need for sales taxes either.

Doesn't need to be revenue neutral since taxes are inflation control and not needed to fund the feds (they print their own revenue).

Not to be critical for I think this is far better than what we have now and would compromise to take this, just had to add my two cents

Thanks for responding. A late response by me here. Interesting you would support it even if it is not everything you wanted. It is designed for just that, have enough of what everyone wants from Right to Left that they would compromise and support it. I like all facets of it but I believe in progressive rates and economic freedom, strong central government but an efficient one. In regard to printing money, I personally support low to zero inflation policies. I want taxation to be transparent. I don't think it is moral for someone to work hard and pay their taxes on an income and then each year inflation eats away at the fruits of their labor.

 

[laska]

Take away the sales tax and I could go along with this...but I think you would get a bunch of howls from the low to middle class people who would suddenly be paying the 10% tax hike. Or do you propose to allow the current deductions that now reduce their tax to zero?

I really meant this tax code to be federal/states/local combined. More of a dream case scenario where somehow the federal/states/local cooperated and figured out a way to balance their own tax codes to where the rates of my tax code would be the end results. I also would have single payer catastrophic insurance covered in the cost of government. So a lower to middle income tax payer would come out much better under my plan I think. First the companies they work for would have no corporate income tax and no health care costs, so in competitive labor environments much of those savings will be transferred to salaries, and in competitive markets those savings will be seen in lowering of prices for those goods and services, which raises everyone's living standards . Those low and middle class individuals that pay out of pocket health care costs will have much less worries about going bankrupt over health care with copay or loss of benefits when limits are reached. Those who pay out of pocket for this type of insurance will now have that money in their pockets. There would be no property taxes, no other local and state sales taxes. Add free trade policies and my tax code, and prices will go down compared to current system. Overall I think low and middle class and everyone else would be better off.

 

[celticwar17]

I like it.

And how does current state sales tax avoid cheating? State taxes are so hard to avoid some states are even pressing on internet purchases and being successful at it.