05/2019 Census: Interest in a Christian Discussion Group

[COTO]

Greetings to fellow Christians.

I've been on DP about a month as of this posting. I've seen quite a bit of atheistic evangelism, which made me curious as to whether there were any Christian discussion groups.

I did find one, https://www.debatepolitics.com/groups/born-again-bible-reading-church-going-christains.html, apparently defunct since 2013.

DP-wide, even the most populous discussion groups seem to be dead or dying. Given the relative obscurity of the "groups" feature and group discussions, it's easy to see why. (My props to anyone who even manages to find the group discussions without direction.)

More generally, I'm curious if there's sufficient interest (critical mass, if you will) to set up something--not necessarily a discussion group, possibly just a thread--for DP members who regard Biblical scripture as authoritative to discuss weekly issues on that level. A discussion group seems ideal, but only if members are notified (by default) on any activity therein. I don't know whether this is the case, and it strikes me as the bare minimum (along with, say, 5+ interested active participants) to even attempt the experiment.

A thread or group of threads could also work, but only if DP members generally respected the exclusions, requirements, and general purpose of the thread, which almost certainly wouldn't be the case sans diligent moderation.

Private discussions might be a third option, although again, I don't know whether regular discussion via private conversations is sustainable or even possible on DP.

If nothing else, I'm curious to know if there are any fellow Christians on DP and who you may be.

Best regards to all.

 

[Dragonfly]

Why don't you just go here: https://www.debatepolitics.com/theology/

and start some threads/discussions on the topics you wish to talk about?

Why do you need a more select, or private "group"?

 

[OlNate]

Why don't you just go here: https://www.debatepolitics.com/theology/

and start some threads/discussions on the topics you wish to talk about?

Why do you need a more select, or private "group"?

Agreed.

The theology section is where we don't have to justify our faith, and can debate within the context of it. I recommend checking it out, COTO.

 

[COTO]

Agreed.

The theology section is where we don't have to justify our faith, and can debate within the context of it. I recommend checking it out, COTO.

I did not know that.

I thought it would be the usual theist-vs-atheist scrum.

Thanks for the advice.

I guess this thread is now just a census.

 

[OlNate]

I did not know that.

I thought it would be the usual theist-vs-atheist scrum.

Thanks for the advice.

I guess this thread is now just a census.

I think you'll find that there is a good amount of religious discussion here...and I wouldn't shy away from the Beliefs and Skepticisms section either. Yes, you will find some people with an axe to grind, that's inevitable, but some of our atheist friends are respectful in their skepticism, and some have an impressive knowledge of scripture. As long as you can keep yourself from going on tilt, you'll find some very interesting discussion indeed.

 

[zyzygy]

deleted

 

[OlNate]

No, they have fantasy forum. Enjoy!

You can't help yourself, can you... :lol:

 

[zyzygy]

You can't help yourself, can you... :lol:

Sorry! I'm feeling a bit liverish today.

 

[OlNate]

Sorry! I'm feeling a bit liverish today.

Dang...getter better soon, bud. :lol:

And don't worry about it … if he's going to be hanging out here, he might as well get to know you on day 1.

 

[zyzygy]

Dang...getter better soon, bud. :lol:

And don't worry about it … if he's going to be hanging out here, he might as well get to know you on day 1.

True. He may as well know that I put gods in the same class as leprechauns, fairies and goblins.

 

[OlNate]

True. He may as well know that I put gods in the same class as leprechauns, fairies and goblins.

Yes...and it's best to be blunt about it, due to your tendency towards subtlety...lol...

 

[zyzygy]

Yes...and it's best to be blunt about it, due to your tendency towards subtlety...lol...

 

[COTO]

I think you'll find that there is a good amount of religious discussion here...and I wouldn't shy away from the Beliefs and Skepticisms section either. Yes, you will find some people with an axe to grind, that's inevitable, but some of our atheist friends are respectful in their skepticism, and some have an impressive knowledge of scripture. As long as you can keep yourself from going on tilt, you'll find some very interesting discussion indeed.

I've done "debate the existence of God", "debate the authority of scripture", "debate the value/necessity of Christian morals", etc. at odd times and places over the years. It was engaging for a time, but it's been years since I've found a discussion enlightening (in terms of being exposed to novel arguments/counterarguments), whether I was participating or not. Even then, I found that the most insightful discussions by far were uninterrupted and one-on-one, with strictly academic tenor--the complete antithesis of a public message board.

Generally speaking, every impersonal Christian vs. non-Christian debate inexorably tends towards a familiar set of fundamental, irreconcilable differences of opinion on unknowable quanta. Following the trajectory once or twice is worthwhile, but beyond this it's fruitless, both spiritually and academically.

Even among fellow Christians, I rarely debate scriptural issues. The Bible clearly lays out the parameters for how doctrinal issues are decided, and "public debate among the hoi polloi" isn't it.

If I see somebody asking questions or answering others' questions in a less than satisfactory way, I'll cite scripture to instruct or correct, but I can count on one hand the number of times I've ventured to do that on a political message board. I'm more interested in discussing current events issues in the context of scripture, and typically only when some kind of scriptural or moral issue comes up during a "routine" (secular) CE discussion and the arc is best spun off into its own thread. So for example, a Christian member conflates Biblical Israel (the twelve tribes) with the modern-day nation of Israel, and rather than derailing the thread, I might create a separate thread in the Theology sub-forum to address the error.

I actually thought this was the purpose of the discussion groups, but they're so poorly implemented on DP, I'm glad there's a sub-forum for it.

 

[Dragonfly]

The Bible clearly lays out

It's debatable that the bible "clearly" does anything. :2wave::mrgreen:

 

[COTO]

It's debatable that the bible "clearly" does anything. :2wave::mrgreen:

;)



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If I haven't already mentioned it 20 times, DP has some really (how shall I put this?) "unusual" implementation decisions.

 

[zyzygy]

It's debatable that the bible "clearly" does anything. :2wave::mrgreen:

The Bible is clearly full of mistakes and contradictions.

 

[devildavid]

I've done "debate the existence of God", "debate the authority of scripture", "debate the value/necessity of Christian morals", etc. at odd times and places over the years. It was engaging for a time, but it's been years since I've found a discussion enlightening (in terms of being exposed to novel arguments/counterarguments), whether I was participating or not. Even then, I found that the most insightful discussions by far were uninterrupted and one-on-one, with strictly academic tenor--the complete antithesis of a public message board.

Generally speaking, every impersonal Christian vs. non-Christian debate inexorably tends towards a familiar set of fundamental, irreconcilable differences of opinion on unknowable quanta. Following the trajectory once or twice is worthwhile, but beyond this it's fruitless, both spiritually and academically.

Even among fellow Christians, I rarely debate scriptural issues. The Bible clearly lays out the parameters for how doctrinal issues are decided, and "public debate among the hoi polloi" isn't it.

If I see somebody asking questions or answering others' questions in a less than satisfactory way, I'll cite scripture to instruct or correct, but I can count on one hand the number of times I've ventured to do that on a political message board. I'm more interested in discussing current events issues in the context of scripture, and typically only when some kind of scriptural or moral issue comes up during a "routine" (secular) CE discussion and the arc is best spun off into its own thread. So for example, a Christian member conflates Biblical Israel (the twelve tribes) with the modern-day nation of Israel, and rather than derailing the thread, I might create a separate thread in the Theology sub-forum to address the error.

I actually thought this was the purpose of the discussion groups, but they're so poorly implemented on DP, I'm glad there's a sub-forum for it.

Where exactly is it clearly laid out in the bible how doctrinal issues are decided?

 

[COTO]

Where exactly is it clearly laid out in the bible how doctrinal issues are decided?

It's a broad issue.

Fundamental laws and ordinances are primarily laid out in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, and heavily supplemented by examples/judgments (generally called "The Testimonies") throughout the Old Testament and New, including Christ's instruction and magnification of the Law as expounded in the gospels.

The conduct of the New Testament Church, including church hierarchy and judgment of matters not expressly proscribed by scripture (e.g. First Century contentions regarding circumcision, the eating of meat sacrificed to idols, etc. are provided as testimonies) are covered mainly in the Book of Acts, the epistles of Paul, and the Letter to the Hebrews.

In very short form: a converted disciple of Christ belongs to the Church, the Church comprises worldly organizations (small-C churches) meeting very specific criteria, these organizations have a specific mission and hierarchy (one of the many requirements for being a true church), and doctrinal issues not expressly proscribed by scripture are decided within this framework. If a church goes into apostasy (which, believe me, is not a subtle or nuanced thing), a disciple of Christ is morally obligated to seek out a church organization not gone into apostasy. But within a church dedicated to God's Law and meeting the aforementioned criteria, a Christian looks to the church ministry for judgment on doctrinal issues whenever questions or contentions arise, and to abide by these judgments.

I take it from your username that you're probably not a Bible-believing Christian, and, intending no disrespect, I'm presently not interested in explaining or justifying Christian doctrine to anyone who isn't.

If you are a Bible-believing Christian and you're genuinely interested in the subject, PM me and I can send you links to sermons, Bible studies, articles, etc. on the subject of church governance.

@OlNate: Are there any active Christian members here besides you and me?

I'd expected at least a few to drop in by now. :shock:

 

[devildavid]

It's a broad issue.

Fundamental laws and ordinances are primarily laid out in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, and heavily supplemented by examples/judgments (generally called "The Testimonies") throughout the Old Testament and New, including Christ's instruction and magnification of the Law as expounded in the gospels.

The conduct of the New Testament Church, including church hierarchy and judgment of matters not expressly proscribed by scripture (e.g. First Century contentions regarding circumcision, the eating of meat sacrificed to idols, etc. are provided as testimonies) are covered mainly in the Book of Acts, the epistles of Paul, and the Letter to the Hebrews.

In very short form: a converted disciple of Christ belongs to the Church, the Church comprises worldly organizations (small-C churches) meeting very specific criteria, these organizations have a specific mission and hierarchy (one of the many requirements for being a true church), and doctrinal issues not expressly proscribed by scripture are decided within this framework. If a church goes into apostasy (which, believe me, is not a subtle or nuanced thing), a disciple of Christ is morally obligated to seek out a church organization not gone into apostasy. But within a church dedicated to God's Law and meeting the aforementioned criteria, a Christian looks to the church ministry for judgment on doctrinal issues whenever questions or contentions arise, and to abide by these judgments.

I take it from your username that you're probably not a Bible-believing Christian, and, intending no disrespect, I'm presently not interested in explaining or justifying Christian doctrine to anyone who isn't.

If you are a Bible-believing Christian and you're genuinely interested in the subject, PM me and I can send you links to sermons, Bible studies, articles, etc. on the subject of church governance.

@OlNate: Are there any active Christian members here besides you and me?

I'd expected at least a few to drop in by now. :shock:

Where specifically is it clearly stated? What words addressed to who? The OT was not addressed to Christians.

 

[COTO]

The OT was not addressed to Christians.

Christ is the God of the Old Testament. The Great I AM. The Rock that followed Israel. The One who dealt directly with Israel and Who spoke through the prophets. Many New Testament scriptures make this plain.

Disciples of Christ--those who study his Law and follow his commandments--are Christians.

Hence indeed, the OT was (is) very much addressed to Christians, albeit not by the name "Christians".

Where specifically is it clearly stated? What words addressed to who?

Sorry. I'm not going to invest any more time than I've already put into the summary in #18.

What puzzles me: You don't consider scripture authoritative. Why do you even care what it says to whom where, or whether a scriptural argument can be made for something?

 

[devildavid]

Christ is the God of the Old Testament. The Great I AM. The Rock that followed Israel. The One who dealt directly with Israel and Who spoke through the prophets. Many New Testament scriptures make this plain.

Disciples of Christ--those who study his Law and follow his commandments--are Christians.

Hence indeed, the OT was (is) very much addressed to Christians, albeit not by the name "Christians".


Sorry. I'm not going to invest any more time than I've already put into the summary in #18.

What puzzles me: You don't consider scripture authoritative. Why do you even care what it says to whom where, or whether a scriptural argument can be made for something?

There is no character called Christ in the OT. The OT was addressed to Jews.

 

[Logicman]

@OlNate: Are there any active Christian members here besides you and me?

I'd expected at least a few to drop in by now. :shock:

Hello, COTO. I'm with you. Jesus is Lord!

 

[RAMOSS]

Christ is the God of the Old Testament. The Great I AM. The Rock that followed Israel. The One who dealt directly with Israel and Who spoke through the prophets. Many New Testament scriptures make this plain.

Disciples of Christ--those who study his Law and follow his commandments--are Christians.

Hence indeed, the OT was (is) very much addressed to Christians, albeit not by the name "Christians".


Sorry. I'm not going to invest any more time than I've already put into the summary in #18.

What puzzles me: You don't consider scripture authoritative. Why do you even care what it says to whom where, or whether a scriptural argument can be made for something?

That is something that is being imposed on the Jewish scripture, not what is taken from it. So, no.. "Christ" is not the end of all the so called 'old testament'. In the Jewish faith, the Messiah is not going to be God.

 

[COTO]

There is no character called Christ in the OT. The OT was addressed to Jews.

The OT was addressed to physical Israel then and Spiritual Israel today.

Incidentally, not all Israelites were Jews. Judah was only one of the twelve tribes of Israel. Moses and Aaron themselves were Levites, of the priestly tribe of Levi, not Judah. Most specific addresses are to the Children of Israel (all twelve tribes, also called the Hebrews [sons of Eber, a patriarch of Jacob]), the House of Judah (the tribes of Judah and Benjamin), and the House of David (descendants of the first king of Israel, Christ and King David both being physical descendants of the scepter tribe of Judah).

Hello, COTO. I'm with you. Jesus is Lord!

There is another one of you here! :2wave:

Hiding in the bushes, no doubt.

 

[devildavid]

The OT was addressed to physical Israel then and Spiritual Israel today.

Incidentally, not all Israelites were Jews. Judah was only one of the twelve tribes of Israel. Moses and Aaron themselves were Levites, of the priestly tribe of Levi, not Judah. Most specific addresses are to the Children of Israel (all twelve tribes, also called the Hebrews [sons of Eber, a patriarch of Jacob]), the House of Judah (the tribes of Judah and Benjamin), and the House of David (descendants of the first king of Israel, Christ and King David both being physical descendants of the scepter tribe of Judah).


There is another one of you here! :2wave:

Hiding in the bushes, no doubt.

The OT was addressed to the chosen people at the time. Nothing was addressed an imagined future spiritual anything. And none of it was addressed to Christians as they did not exist at the time.