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“The ripple effects of letting those companies implode would have been huge.”

speaking of ignorance fenton, I posted a nice
graph for you. Don't tell me you didn't see it. remember you said



now remembering the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004 (right about the time Raines retired from Fannie Mae) we see that the private label MBS market shooting up right before the Bush Mortgage Bubble.
View attachment 67153686

wow, looking at the % of market share you can clearly see the GSE market falling off a cliff. And the funny part is that 71 % of the Private label market was subprime. So it looks like there were a lot of buyers for "crap mortgages". And if it wasn't for Bush's policies and Bush's regulators there wouldn't have been any crap mortgages to sell in the Private MBS market.

and can you post a link about the capital requirements being lowered in 1995. I cant find anything.

BWAHAHAHA..!!

Speaking of ignorance you posted a graph.

Your ignorant graph VERN.

Yes yes, we all know you think EVERYTHING happened after 2004 and it was ALL Bush's fault but we've already established that your version of events is based on a figment of your imagination.

Its why your threads on the Sub-Prime collapse wind up in the section of the Forum based on Partisan Hackery.

And remember, you don't like wordy responses. So even if I were to AGAIN, post the information you request, you would just whine and reassert your ridiculous opinion.

That in 4 years the amount of Sub-Prime loans in America increased to the point where nearly half of all mortgages were sub-prime.

That Fannie and Freddie could have acquired 5 Trillion in low quality crap mortgages from 2004 to 2008 when the Republicans for 8 years were trying to force new and strict regulatory controls on them while the Democrats lied about their health in Republican chaired Committees just shows the level of partisan delusion you're currently experiencing.

So keep raving, posting your nonsense and drivel.

You've got quite a reputation around here.
 
Gingrich was on their payroll for many years. It's very clear he was basically lobbying for them.

Lobbying for them, what was he lobbying for? That should be an easy answer as clear as it is for you.

1) Bush 41 signed the Housing and Community Act of 1992, which expanded their mandate to buy loans made to low- and moderate-income housing.
2) Bush 43 pushed that further, along with his repeated attempts to expand home ownership.
President Calls for Expanding Opportunities to Home Ownership and
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/business/worldbusiness/21iht-admin.4.18853088.html?pagewanted=all
Home Ownership and President Bush - YouTube

You give me speeches, Obama made speeches he was going to close Clubgetmo and what happened. Give me actual legislation, Like the failed Obmacare. Plus I have already told you repeatedly, it was Bush and McCain that tried to reform F&F and was stopped by Democrats. This is a fact. Further you have yet shown any evidence that Bush said to lower the lending standards.

The way Fannie and Freddie increased home ownership was by purchasing riskier loans. Which were being issued by other people anyway.

Yes of course but that lowering of risk was pushed by democrats. That is a fact. Barney also said F&F were in excellent financial shape and in two weeks they were broke and losing hundreds of billions.

"Regulated" does not mean that the federal government was auditing their books.

I beg your pardon, do you not remember Barney stating F&F was in excellent financial shape?

Do a little reading on Franks involvement with F&F

Exit Barney Frank | National Review Online

Barney Frank flees the scene of his fiscal crimes | Washington Times Communities

In a nutshell, the much-maligned Bush Administration recognized the Fannie-Freddie problem early on. Slowly, relentlessly, from the 1980s on, mostly Democrat-controlled Congresses pushed both quasi-governmental entities to prod banks into ever more liberal loan policies that would allow less and less qualified loan applicants to obtain mortgages and—often for the first time—purchase housing, regardless of whether they were financially able to carry their mortgages.

The problem became acute in the early 2000s as lower and lower down payments and “liar loans”—loans that required little if any substantiating documentation—became the norm. The Bush Administration—along with eventual GOP presidential candidate John McCain—tried to put an end to these practices, but to no avail. Frank, the Democrats, and a substantial number of incredibly stupid Republicans steadfastly opposed legislation geared toward heading off the already-gathering fiscal storm.

Read more: Barney Frank flees the scene of his fiscal crimes | Washington Times Communities
Follow us: @wtcommunities on Twitter

No, actually, it proves that you don't really understand what's going on. E.g. just because interest rates are currently low, doesn't mean it is easy to get a mortgage or a refi. In fact, standards are significantly stricter today than in 2005 or even 2008.

I do understand, you claimed it was low interest rates that caused the problem, NO, interest rates have been low for over a decade. And nothing like what you say happened has happened for over a decade. This goes to my point that it was F&F wanting to buy up dead beat loans given to people with no job and no credit.

No, actually, it takes a whole series of contingent events to create a forest fire. You need tons of kindling, a lack of smaller routine fires that clear out the various brush and deadwood, you need low humidity and proper winds, and then you need some idiot to start the fire and let it burn long enough to spread.

That idiot, is F&F and all it took is one match, in this cast there was two matches.

And let's face it, Bush had zero interest in stopping the bubble. I don't recall a single time that he expressed any awareness of the US being in a housing bubble, before it actually popped.

How many times do I have to say it and show you that it was Bush and McCain that tried several times to STOP F&F's buying of no job and no credit loans. Get a grip.

Now please read this and then tell me Bush and McCain did not know anything that was wrong with F&F and what was coming, he only tried to stop F&F and you can't remember. How convenient. :doh

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123137220550562585.html
 
Yes yes, we all know you think EVERYTHING happened after 2004 and it was ALL Bush's fault but we've already established that your version of events is based on a figment of your imagination.

Oh fenton, you can whine at my posts but you cant call it a figment of my imagination. I've posted Bush's Working Group on Financial Markets telling you it started late 2004 (one of many solid factual links that verify the time frame of the Bush mortgage Bubble). And you've seen the link. You've whined at it every time I posted it. Is "figment of your imagination" another of those things that cons have a secret definition for?
So even if I were to AGAIN, post the information you request, you would just whine and reassert your ridiculous opinion.

I've never seen you post it fenton. that sounds like an excuse from somebody who cant back up his point. Lets face it fenton, that's probably just another of the many "magic" facts you post that actually are a figment of your imagination

anyhoo, since the graph I posted from the GAO was clearly not a figment of my imagination and it clearly shows that Freddie and Fannie were not the only ones who bought mortgages, it seems this is just another "magic" fact from you

without Clinton appointing a bunch of Democrat Criminals to run them ( Franklin Raines ) there would have been no buyer for the crap mortgages.

and we'll file the capital requirement from 1995 thing in the "magic" fact file also.
 
You give me speeches, Obama made speeches he was going to close Clubgetmo and what happened. Give me actual legislation,

actually there was very little legislation behind the Bush Mortgage Bubble. The most toxic parts of the Bush Mortgage Bubble were policies such as relaxing the Net Capital Rule for investment banks or reversing the Clinton rule that restricted Freddie and Fannie's subprime purchases. Here's Bush's most toxic policy. He preempted all state laws against predatory lending.

“By early 2004, these concerns prompted Georgia and more than 30 other states to pass laws designed to eliminate abusive or predatory lending practices by the financial services firms, including those with federal charters, operating within their boundaries.
Acting on a request from a national bank, the OCC in 2003 concluded that federal law preempts the provisions of the Georgia Fair Lending Act (GFLA) that would otherwise affect national banks’ real estate lending. "

http://www.occ.gov/publications/publications-by-type/economics-working-papers/2008-2000/wp2004-4.pdf

Now why would Bush preempt all state laws against predatory lending?

"In addition, clarification of the applicability of state laws to national banks should remove disincentives to subprime lending and increase the supply of credit to subprime borrowers.

WOW! did bush really say he wanted to "remove disincentives to subprime lending and increase the supply of credit to subprime borrowers”? HOLY COW! bush really did say he wanted to "remove disincentives to subprime lending and increase the supply of credit to subprime borrowers.
 
Oh fenton, you can whine at my posts but you cant call it a figment of my imagination. I've posted Bush's Working Group on Financial Markets telling you it started late 2004 (one of many solid factual links that verify the time frame of the Bush mortgage Bubble). And you've seen the link. You've whined at it every time I posted it. Is "figment of your imagination" another of those things that cons have a secret definition for?


I've never seen you post it fenton. that sounds like an excuse from somebody who cant back up his point. Lets face it fenton, that's probably just another of the many "magic" facts you post that actually are a figment of your imagination

anyhoo, since the graph I posted from the GAO was clearly not a figment of my imagination and it clearly shows that Freddie and Fannie were not the only ones who bought mortgages, it seems this is just another "magic" fact from you



and we'll file the capital requirement from 1995 thing in the "magic" fact file also.


LOL !!!

The stupid working group nonsense. Hey that was just good enough for the Partisan section of the forum, where everything you expel belongs.

Here, read this educate yourself, that is, if it isn't too wordy for you.

http://fcic-static.law.stanford.edu/cdn_media/fcic-reports/fcic_final_report_wallison_dissent.pdf

“I think that the responsibility that the Democrats had may rest more in resisting any efforts by Republicans in the Congress, or by me when I was President, to put some standards and tighten up a little on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.” – Former President Bill Clinton (D-AR), September 25, 2008

“Like a lot of my Democratic colleagues I was too slow to appreciate the recklessness of Fannie and Freddie. I defended their efforts to encourage affordable homeownership when in retrospect I should have heeded the concerns raised by their regulator in 2004. Frankly, I wish my Democratic colleagues would admit when it comes to Fannie and Freddie, we were wrong.” – Congressman Artur Davis (D-AL) , September 30, 2008


“I think we see entities that are fundamentally sound financially and withstand some of the disastrous scenarios. And even if there were a problem, the federal government doesn’t bail them out.Barney Frank (D-MA)

At a House Financial Services Committee hearing, Sept. 25, 2003, Barney Frank said:
"I do think I do not want the same kind of focus on safety and soundness that we have in OCC [Office of the Comptroller of the Currency] and OTS [Office of Thrift Supervision]. I want to roll the dice a little bit more in this situation towards subsidized housing...."

The Clinton Administration’s 1995 CRA changes authorized GSE’s to buy subprime mortgages, which it began to do in 1997. “Subprime” means that the person receiving the loan has a poor credit record and/or very low income compared to the loan size.

Almost immediately, Fannie began to loosen its standards, requiring people to show lower wealth amounts in order to qualify for mortgages. By 1997, Fannie Mae was offering to buy 97% loan-to-value (LTV) mortgages. If a mortgage is $300,000 on a house worth $500,000, the LTV is 60% (3/5). The higher the mortgage relative to the house value, the higher the LTV. In other words, in 1997, Fannie started offering to buy mortgages that required recipients to put barely any money down. Fannie’s subprime backing caused the percentage of all new US mortgages that were of subprime quality to rise to 13% by 1999, versus 5% in 1994 when the Clinton Administration changed the CRA. According to a 2002 Housing Department report, “From 1993 to 1998, the number of subprime refinance increased tenfold.”

As Fannie’s CEO, Franklin Raines explained in 1999, “Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990′s by reducing down payment requirements. Yet there remain too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required who have been relegated to paying significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market.”


You’ve got only a couple thousand bucks in the bank. Your job pays you dog-food wages. Your credit history has been bent, stapled, and mutilated. You declared bankruptcy in 1989. Don’t despair: You can still buy a house.” – so said an April 1995 Chicago Sun Times article that directed people with very poor credit to contact to a group of “community organizers” called ACORN.

Bush's 2003 GSE Proposal...“The Bush administration today recommended the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis a decade ago. Under the plan, disclosed at a Congressional hearing today, a new agency would be created within the Treasury Department to assume supervision of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the government-sponsored companies that are the two largest players in the mortgage lending industry. The new agency would have the authority, which now rests with Congress, to set one of the two capital-reserve requirements for the companies. It would exercise authority over any new lines of business. And it would determine whether the two are adequately managing the risks of their ballooning portfolios. The plan is an acknowledgment by the administration that oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — which together have issued more than $1.5 trillion in outstanding debt — is broken.”

The Democrats responded by signing a letter to Bush ( 72 of them) warning him NOT to regulate Fannie and Freddie



In 2000 Andrew Cuomo, head of HUD who had regulatory control over the GSEs pledged 2 trillion to the buying up of "affordable home loans".

In 2000 Jamie Gorelick, one of Clintons appointees at a banking conference beseached the banks to sell FANNIE their loans....." We want your CRA loans because it helps us meet our housing goals." We'll buy them from your portfolios and package them into Securities".

Run back into your pretend existence VERN
 
I am well aware of your talk radio rhetoric.



There is a difference between redlining, and practicing proper risk management with respect to underwriting. It is impossible to force a bank to lend; the only way they would do so is if they believe they could make money from it. And playing financial hot-potato was profitable (you know offering loans to people who they knew could not afford them, only to push the loans into secondary markets at a profit), until those who got stuck holding mis-priced securities began to go under in droves.



Drivel.

Viewing peoples applications in a normal manner is does not guarantee all applicants will receive credit.

Kushinator have you bothered to read the The Community Reinvestment Act (or CRA, (Public Law 95-128), title VIII, (US Statute 91:1147), (US Code 12:2901) passed by a Democrat Congress and signed into law by President Carter? Prior to the CRA, bankers did not take risks on loaning money. And the redline scenario came about because banks naturally shied away from low income neighborhoods because of the risk involved. The CRA, however, mandates that each banking institution be evaluated to determine if it has met the credit needs of its entire community. That means from that point on they would have to accept a certain number of high risk loan applications because that record is taken into account when the federal government considers an institution's application for deposit facilities, including mergers and acquisitions. The CRA is enforced by the financial regulators (FDIC, OCC, OTS, and FRB). But when Clinton got into office and he too had a Democrat majority in Congress increased the regulations on the CRA. In 1995, as a result of interest from President Clinton's administration, the implementing regulations for the CRA were strengthened by focusing the financial regulators' attention on institutions' performance in helping to meet community credit needs. These changes were very controversial and as a result, the regulators agreed to revisit the rule after it had been fully implemented for five years. Thus in 2002, the regulators opened up the regulation for review and potential revision and that was when the calls for reform were made by the Bush administration for it showed a great increase in foreclosures of these subj-prime loans. But back to Clinton....

On January 31, 1995, because of Clinton and the Democrat Congress were credited with substantially increasing the number and aggregate amount of loans to small businesses and to low- and moderate-income borrowers for home loans. Massive new provisions to CRA that forced banks to issue $1 trillion dollars in bad loans. Part of the increase in home loans was due to increased efficiency and the genesis of lenders, like Countrywide, that do not mitigate loan risk with savings deposits as do traditional banks using the new subprime authorization. This is known as the secondary market for mortgage loans. The revisions allowed the securitization of CRA loans containing subprime mortgages. The first public securitization of CRA loans started in 1997.

The new CRA regulations also instructed bank examiners to take into account how well banks responded to complaints. The old CRA evaluation process had allowed advocacy groups a chance to express their views on individual banks, and publicly available data on the lending patterns of individual banks allowed activist groups to target institutions considered vulnerable to protest. But for advocacy groups that were in the complaint business, the Clinton administration regulations offered a formal invitation. The National Community Reinvestment Coalition, a foundation-funded umbrella group for community activist groups that profit from the CRA, issued a clarion call to its members in a leaflet entitled 'The New CRA Regulations: How Community Groups Can Get Involved.' 'Timely comments,' the NCRC observed with a certain understatement, 'can have a strong influence on a bank's CRA rating.'" 'To avoid the possibility of a denied or delayed application,' advises the NCRC 'lending institutions have an incentive to make formal agreements with community organizations.' By intervening, even just threatening to intervene, in the CRA review process, left-wing nonprofit groups have been able to gain control over eye-popping pools of bank capital, which they in turn parcel out to individual low-income mortgage seekers. ACORN Housing has a $760 million commitment from the Bank of New York; the Boston-based Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America has a $3-billion agreement with the Bank of America; a coalition of groups headed by New Jersey Citizen Action has a five-year, $13-billion agreement with First Union Corporation. Similar deals operate in almost every major U.S. city.

So what you and many others fail to understand, is what the revisions Clinton made to the CRA amounted to government extortion on the banks. They either make the risky bad loans or have the feds breathing down their neck with fines etc. All it would take is some organization like ACORN to file a complaint to cause a banking institution much grief.


Then they created sub-prime mortgage securities.

Bear Sterns was the first company to do it. Remember them?

Fannie Mae added fuel to the fire by purchasing $2 billion of dodgy "MyCommunityMortgage" loans.

And sub-prime mortgages started to grow. Between 1995 and 1999, Fannie Mae Sub-prime Alt-A & Other Purchases grew from under $2 billion to over $16 billion per year!

Now home prices started to rise - from under 2% to over 6% per year, year-after-year.

Fannie Mae is a "Government Sponsored Enterprise". Fannie Mae guarantees mortgages and then Fannie Mae sells them to banks and investors. The more mortgages, the more money Fannie Mae makes.

So how do you increase the number of mortgages? You move down the 'income ladder'


With "affordable mortgages", fixed-rate loans were replaced by variable-rate loans (ARMS) and in turn by interest-only loans. These new loans gave "flexibility to lenders by allowing variances that borrowers need to qualify for loans". (CSRwire). These variances applied to: loan-to-value ratio, borrower contribution, housing expense-to-income ratio, among others. In other words, to flakes.

Remember, the banks had to issue sub-prime loans or pay big penalties to the government.

How do you keep these loans "affordable"?

No money! No money down! Interest only! Low variable rate! No income verification! Bad Credit! No credit! No problem! Just sign here! ("Moneyfor nothing ).

By 2004, 92% of Fannie Mae's sub-prime loans were variable rate.

Fannie Mae told the banks "Make the loans -- we'll guarantee them".

Home ownership kept rising -- and so did prices, and the demand for houses rose too.

But demand for loans caused the interest rate to rise. It's your basic supply and demand stuff. Something once upon a time kids were taught in high school. Apparently not Senators or Representatives. Those who had purchased home on balloon rates (Arm's) saw a significant increase in their mortgage payments and the higher rates stunted new home sales especially the demand for new homes to be built. That meant layoffs. Gas prices shot up and the private sector had already started cutting back meaning more layoffs. Paychecks got squeezed. Especially low-income paychecks. Some borrowers stopped paying -- so banks stopped lending. New ARMS and other "affordability loans" dropped from nearly 20% of total market share in 2006 to just 10% in 2007.

So the sub-prime market collapsed. From Fourth Quarter 2006 to Fourth Quarter 2007, Sub-prime mortgage originations dropped from $140 billion to under $18 billion, a drop of 88%.

Foreclosures started pilling up. No buyers, only sellers.

Home prices started falling.

More borrowers stopped paying. 60 day+ delinquencies went from under 8% in 2006 to over 25% by mid-2007.

Fannie Mae "Guarantees" became worthless - because they kept overstating their assets.

Regulators Spin Public to Boost Fannie, Freddie: Jonathan Weil - Bloomberg

Banks collapsed due to worthlessness. Government Sponsored Securities issued by Fannie Mae became worthless. Jobs disappeared -- and here we are.

Why is the expansion of the Government's Community Reinvestment Act to blame?

Before CRA expansion, home prices simply increased with the underlying inflation rate, going up by 200% from 1975 through 1995 as the dollar dropped in value by the same amount. Home prices and home ownership rates were essentially flat - after adjusting for inflation. After CRA, home prices became unhinged from inflation, jumping 100% from 1996 to 2006 while inflation increased by 'only' 33%.

CRA caused home prices to rise too fast. Economic fundamentals did not support this growth. Government regulation-mandated credit did.

A bubble -- waiting to burst!

So, did it have to happen?

NO!
 
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LOL !!!

The stupid working group nonsense. Hey that was just good enough for the Partisan section of the forum, where everything you expel belongs.

so you admit you've seen it. mmmm, doesn't that make your statement that the Bush Mortgage Bubble started in late 2004 being a figment of my imagination a lie? it sure seem like it does to me? I really would like to not conclude you knowingly posted a lie but what else can I think? tell you what, post a link that shows that capital requirements for Freddie and Fannie were lowered in 1995 and I'll forget the whole ugly incident. ( and if you think the Crisis Commission said it, I'll need you to cut and paste the part that says it)
 
So what you and many others fail to understand, is what the revisions Clinton made to the CRA amounted to government extortion on the banks. They either make the risky bad loans or have the feds breathing down their neck with fines etc. All it would take is some organization like ACORN to file a complaint to cause a banking institution much grief.

You can always tell when a con has nothing factual to say when they post 10,000 word diatribes and back none of it up (see Fenton). Now vesper, remember how I posted Bush's Working group telling you that the Bush Mortgage Bubble started in late 2004. Guess what, the Fed gives the same time frame

"Since 1995 there has been essentially no change in the basic CRA rules or enforcement process that can be reasonably linked to the subprime lending activity. This fact weakens the link between the CRA and the current crisis since the crisis is rooted in poor performance of mortgage loans made between 2004 and 2007. "

http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/speech/20081203_analysis.pdf

Lets examine this "nugget" from your uncredited editorial

1995, as a result of interest from President Clinton's administration, the implementing regulations for the CRA were strengthened by focusing the financial regulators' attention on institutions' performance in helping to meet community credit needs.

mmmm, some people felt it weakened an institutions performance in helping to meet community credit needs.

"In fact, an intermediate bank, like a small bank, could pass a CRA examination without satisfactory community investment or services. Many community advocates felt this weakened the CRA, but those in support of the change claimed it further reduced an unnecessary regulatory burden on banks."

http://www2.wlu.edu/documents/shepherd/academics/cap_09_horan.pdf

Who do you think supported reducing " an unnecessary regulatory burden on the banks"? And your "extortion" narrative is a false as it is disgusting.
is what the revisions Clinton made to the CRA amounted to government extortion on the banks

You've stated in your "uncredited" editorial that "The CRA is enforced by the financial regulators (FDIC, OCC, OTS, and FRB)". Read this slowly, the regulators at the FDIC, OCC and OTS work for Bush. And since the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004 it means Bush's regulators were "extorting" the banks. Of course your "uncredited" editorial knows if you are reading their editorials, you don't know the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004. And even if you did, you wouldn't put any thought into who was "extorting" the banks. they know you would mindlessly obey.
 
You can always tell when a con has nothing factual to say when they post 10,000 word diatribes and back none of it up (see Fenton). Now vesper, remember how I posted Bush's Working group telling you that the Bush Mortgage Bubble started in late 2004. Guess what, the Fed gives the same time frame

"Since 1995 there has been essentially no change in the basic CRA rules or enforcement process that can be reasonably linked to the subprime lending activity. This fact weakens the link between the CRA and the current crisis since the crisis is rooted in poor performance of mortgage loans made between 2004 and 2007. "

http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/speech/20081203_analysis.pdf

Lets examine this "nugget" from your uncredited editorial



mmmm, some people felt it weakened an institutions performance in helping to meet community credit needs.

"In fact, an intermediate bank, like a small bank, could pass a CRA examination without satisfactory community investment or services. Many community advocates felt this weakened the CRA, but those in support of the change claimed it further reduced an unnecessary regulatory burden on banks."

http://www2.wlu.edu/documents/shepherd/academics/cap_09_horan.pdf

Who do you think supported reducing " an unnecessary regulatory burden on the banks"? And your "extortion" narrative is a false as it is disgusting.


You've stated in your "uncredited" editorial that "The CRA is enforced by the financial regulators (FDIC, OCC, OTS, and FRB)". Read this slowly, the regulators at the FDIC, OCC and OTS work for Bush. And since the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004 it means Bush's regulators were "extorting" the banks. Of course your "uncredited" editorial knows if you are reading their editorials, you don't know the Bush Mortgage Bubble started late 2004. And even if you did, you wouldn't put any thought into who was "extorting" the banks. they know you would mindlessly obey.

Hey lefty, here's a quick and easy response you may be able to follow.

A Democrat President Carter and Democrat Congress passed a piece of legislation called the Community Reinvestment Act.
It forced banks to take on risky loans of low income persons in areas of a bank servicing that area.

A Democrat President Clinton and Democrat Congress passed new legislation increasing the regulations on banks under the Community Reinvestment Act.
They lowered the qualifications for loaning, and required banks to increase the number of risky loans. And the penalty for not doing so amounted bank regulators holding up applications for mergers to being fined. And all it would take is a complaint from a community activist group that profited from the CRA.

That is government extortion!!!

When Clinton signed into law his upgraded version of CRA, the regulators thought it was a risky bit of legislation and said it had to be brought up for review in 5 years.

Five years later, 2002 a regime change had occurred, Republican President Bush discovers Clinton's revisions to CRA increasing risky loans has resulted in a substantial increase in defaults in mortgages. He calls for reform but Congress does not act. By 2005 The Republican House passes a bill to reform Fannie and Freddie. But in the Senate, the Republicans have a very thin majority not enough to reach 60 votes and Democrats filibuster the reforms.

By 2006 it is obvious that Fannie and Freddie are failing, and lending institutions are getting hit with huge losses over foreclosures. But the Democrats who are now in the majority in both Houses refuse to recognize the problem.

By 2008, when they can no longer lie to the public that everything is hunky dory, Pelosi proposes legislation unfortunately it is about 2 years too late.

By October 2008 we are in total melt down just weeks before the election. So oh well, "we can blame Bush"! because it happened under his watch.

Never mind that the whole damn thing was the result of decades of Democrat legislation that is based in this false fairness mentality that everyone should have something whether they can afford it our not. This mentality of spread the wealth to those who didn't take advantage of all the opportunities provided them in this country starting with an education. Only a Democrat will make the case a high school dropout who can only find minimum wage pay is somehow entitled to receive things on the backs of others who put their life on hold for 6-8-years or more getting an education that could afford them the privilege of buying a home.

The moral to this story is sh*t will surely happen when you allow the federal government control of a private sector. Those like you who like big government control are the problem. Everything you have tried to put in control of the federal government from education, energy, housing, retirements and now health care are ALL total failures.

For the life of me, why a person would put so much faith in government must be because they have no faith in themselves.
 
Lobbying for them, what was he lobbying for? That should be an easy answer as clear as it is for you.
Here ya go, have fun. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/04/u...annie-mae-and-freddie-mac.html?pagewanted=all

Lots of other politicians from both sides of the aisle, including Bush 43, took campaign contributions from Fannie Mae. The key criterion, by the way? Incumbency.


Yes of course but that lowering of risk was pushed by democrats. That is a fact.
No, the fact is that mortgage originators and banks were lowering standards on their own. E.g. by 2006 almost half of Countrywide's mortgages were nonconforming -- as in, loans that the GSEs would not touch.

You're so utterly fixated on the GSEs, and blaming Democrats, that you're missing everything else. Your litanies only demonstrate that you're oblivious to a dozen other factors which created the bubble.


In a nutshell, the much-maligned Bush Administration recognized the Fannie-Freddie problem early on.
In a nutshell:
1) They didn't do jack to actually rein in the GSE's.
2) They didn't raise a finger to properly regulate derivatives, mortgage origination, banks, hedge funds, and the rest.

Was the Bush administration at fault? Undoubtedly. As was the Clinton administration, the Fed, the banks, the mortgage originators, and the homeowners with dollar signs in their eyes. Plenty of blame to go around.


The problem became acute in the early 2000s as lower and lower down payments and “liar loans”—loans that required little if any substantiating documentation—became the norm. The Bush Administration—along with eventual GOP presidential candidate John McCain—tried to put an end to these practices....
No, they really didn't. Neither they nor Greenspan did anything about it. Greenspan even said that oversight would be pointless.


I do understand, you claimed it was low interest rates that caused the problem, NO, interest rates have been low for over a decade....
No, I've cited nearly a dozen factors; low interest rates are only one of those factors. And there is far, far more to the expansion of mortgages than low interest rates. E.g. rates are rock bottom right now, but good luck getting a mortgage if your income isn't rock solid.


How many times do I have to say it and show you that it was Bush and McCain that tried several times to STOP F&F's...
And how many times do I need to explain that the numerous root causes had nothing to do with the GSEs, or efforts to stop redlining?

And for what I believe is the third time: If the GSE's caused the housing bubble, then what caused the housing bubbles in nearly 50 countries?

Similarly, what caused the bubble in US commercial real estate -- a market in which the GSEs had no involvement whatsoever?
 
that is treasury's prediction about what would have happened without the bank bailout

do you believe that is a legitimate expectation?



was it worth the cost?

is it true that the net cost at present only amounts to $3 billion remaining unpaid?

Massive $238 billion financial bailout 5 years ago ‘avoided catastrophe,’ only $3 billion has yet to be paid back: Treasury | The Raw Story

Ok, that "238 billion$" was actually 27.3 TRILLION DOLLARS (last numbers released about 2 years ago). So, only 1% has actually been paid back.
 
Hey lefty, here's a quick and easy response you may be able to follow.
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Blah blah blah You did it again vesper, you posted a lot of words but said nothing factual. You have to babble on and on because you have to “weave a narrative”. I simply post facts. And pretty much like all the other cons, you have to pretend not to notice the facts I’ve posted.

Lets review your silly narrative that dems stopped reform in 2005. The house version of GSE reform passed 331-90. Wow, no partisan battle there. The senate version passed committee but Senate Leader Frist refused to allow a vote on the senate floor. Of course your silly narrative involves “60 votes “ and “filibustering”. See how you desperately grab at any phrase or sentence fragment to reinforce your delusions. No, the facts are that republicans simply did not support the bill and read this slowly BUSH DID NOT SUPPORT THE BILL. I’ve already posted in this thread that Bush attacked GSE reform because it “would lessen the housing GSEs' commitment to low-income homebuyers. “

You just don’t get to pretend not to know that BUSH DID NOT SUPPORT THE BILL. . And if you didn’t pretend not to know that Bush stopped reform in 2003 and encouraged, funded and protected his mortgage bubble you wouldn’t be so shocked that BUSH DID NOT SUPPORT THE BILL.

I know how you cons like quotes. Lets face it, if it weren’t for out of context and irrelevant quotes, you guys couldn’t argue anything. Lets look at an “ in context” and relevant quote from Republican Mike Oxley, Chairman of the House Financial Services committee concerning GSE reform in 2005

“"Instead, the Ohio Republican who headed the House financial services committee until his retirement after mid-term elections last year, blames the mess on ideologues within the White House as well as Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve.
The critics have forgotten that the House passed a GSE reform bill in 2005 that could well have prevented the current crisis, says Mr Oxley, now vice-chairman of Nasdaq.”

“What did we get from the White House? We got a one-finger salute.”

(FT is a pay site so there no direct link. put 'Oxley hits back at ideologues' in google and click the FT link)


eeeouuuchh! how come that never makes it into the quote parade from the right?
 
Blah blah blah You did it again vesper, you
posted a lot of words but said nothing factual. You have to babble on and on because you have to “weave a narrative”. I simply post facts. And pretty much like all the other cons, you have to pretend not to notice the facts I’ve posted.

Lets review your silly narrative that dems stopped reform in 2005. The house version of GSE reform passed 331-90. Wow, no partisan battle there. The senate version passed committee but Senate Leader Frist refused to allow a vote on the senate floor. Of course your silly narrative involves “60 votes “ and “filibustering”. See how you desperately grab at any phrase or sentence fragment to reinforce your delusions. No, the facts are that republicans simply did not support the bill and read this slowly BUSH DID NOT SUPPORT THE BILL. I’ve already posted in this thread that Bush attacked GSE reform because it “would lessen the housing GSEs' commitment to low-income homebuyers. “

You just don’t get to pretend not to know that BUSH DID NOT SUPPORT THE BILL. . And if you didn’t pretend not to know that Bush stopped reform in 2003 and encouraged, funded and protected his mortgage bubble you wouldn’t be so shocked that BUSH DID NOT SUPPORT THE BILL.

I know how you cons like quotes. Lets face it, if it weren’t for out of context and irrelevant quotes, you guys couldn’t argue anything. Lets look at an “ in context” and relevant quote from Republican Mike Oxley, Chairman of the House Financial Services committee concerning GSE reform in 2005

“"Instead, the Ohio Republican who headed the House financial services committee until his retirement after mid-term elections last year, blames the mess on ideologues within the White House as well as Alan Greenspan, former chairman of the Federal Reserve.
The critics have forgotten that the House passed a GSE reform bill in 2005 that could well have prevented the current crisis, says Mr Oxley, now vice-chairman of Nasdaq.”

“What did we get from the White House? We got a one-finger salute.”

(FT is a pay site so there no direct link. put 'Oxley hits back at ideologues' in google and click the FT link)


eeeouuuchh! how come that never makes it into the quote parade from the right?

The House bill put off a thrid party take over of the GSEs for a year, it added a slush fund, it increased the amount for large loans that Fannie could buy.

It was turned down because the Democrats poisoned it.

SB109, was a stricter and better bill.

How many Democrats voted for SB109 VERN ?

I mean we've been over this.

You know Clinton started the Collapse, you know he put the policies in position that started it and perpetuated it.

You know he replaced all CEO and top executive positions at Fannie and Freddie.

You know he appointed the corrupt Democrat Franklin Raines to run Fannie into the ground.

And you know SB 109 was pushed back through a Democrat chaired commitee in 2007.

Did it get through comitee VERN ?

A year before the collapse VERN ?

Why did the Democrats kill SB109 in Comittee in 2007 VERN ?

Aren't you getting tired of embarassing yourself VERN ?
 
Here ya go, have fun. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/04/u...annie-mae-and-freddie-mac.html?pagewanted=all

Lots of other politicians from both sides of the aisle, including Bush 43, took campaign contributions from Fannie Mae. The key criterion, by the way? Incumbency.
Below is a list of Obama's top donors in the 2008 election. How would you like to spin this?


Notice top donor is the University of California. I found a breakdown of the portion of Porkulus California was allocated $31,497,000,000 with 8 billion for education.
2009-10: Federal Economic Stimulus Package: Fiscal Effect on California
And by the way you telling me the Porkulus wasn't a bailout for the states....well after reading this link your argument is grass and I'm the lawnmower.

Goldman Sachs was Obama's next big donor. No coincidence a number of former CEO's from Sachs ended up as Obama advisors. And we must not forget Sach's big role in making large contracts with community organizations for providing low income home loans. And Sachs is also big investors in green energy and owns over 10% of the Chicago Climate Exchange (CCX)

As you go down the list a few more big banks who also have contracts throughout this country with organizations representing low income/risky loan applicants turned out to be big donors of Obama's as well.

Please note Microsoft, whose biggest contract is with the government.

Also note GE, affectionately known as Government Electric. And no surprise that the CEO of GE is also an advisor to Obama. GE has received some really sweet deals from this administration from producing medical supplies to green light bulbs. GE is also known for the number of unions it works with, at least 15 in total.

No, the fact is that mortgage originators and banks were lowering standards on their own. E.g. by 2006 almost half of Countrywide's mortgages were nonconforming -- as in, loans that the GSEs would not touch.
You better check your facts on that one. When Clinton revised the CRA (Community Re-investment Act) lenders, like Countrywide, as the secondary market for mortgage loans, through Clinton's revisions, were able to lower the standards for mortgages. Banks regulated by the CRA often found it difficult to meet their obligations under the CRA directly. They often found that they were at risk of regulators discovering they had fallen behind in making CRA loans. One way of addressing this problem was buying the loans in the secondary market. Mortgage companies like Countrywide marketed its loans directly to banks as a way for them to meet CRA obligations placed on them by Clinton.
You're so utterly fixated on the GSEs, and blaming Democrats, that you're missing everything else. Your litanies only demonstrate that you're oblivious to a dozen other factors which created the bubble.

In a nutshell:
1) They didn't do jack to actually rein in the GSE's.
2) They didn't raise a finger to properly regulate derivatives, mortgage origination, banks, hedge funds, and the rest.
It's on record Bush asked that Congress take up the matter as early as 2002. The Republican House passed legislation that would have reined in GSE's but it was the Democrats in the Senate that filibustered it. There are a number of videos on Youtube showing Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Chuck Schumer, Maxine Waters and others stating there was nothing wrong with the way Fannie and Freddie were doing business. When lending institutions started to experience large losses in foreclosures, still the Democrats were claiming nothing was wrong.
Was the Bush administration at fault? Undoubtedly. As was the Clinton administration, the Fed, the banks, the mortgage originators, and the homeowners with dollar signs in their eyes. Plenty of blame to go around.
Well that's a more fair response then stating "It's Bush's fault"!
 
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Below is a list of Obama's top donors in the
2008 election. How would you like to spin this?


Notice top donor is the University of California. I found a breakdown of the portion of Porkulus California was allocated $31,497,000,000 with 8 billion for education.
2009-10: Federal Economic Stimulus Package: Fiscal Effect on California
And by the way you telling me the Porkulus wasn't a bailout for the states....well after reading this link your argument is grass and I'm the lawnmower.

Goldman Sachs was Obama's next big donor. No coincidence a number of former CEO's from Sachs ended up as Obama advisors. And we must not forget Sach's big role in making large contracts with community organizations for providing low income home loans. And Sachs is also big investors in green energy and owns over 10% of the Chicago Climate Exchange (CCX)

As you go down the list a few more big banks who also have contracts throughout this country with organizations representing low income/risky loan applicants turn out to big donors of Obama's as well.

Please note Microsoft, whose biggest contract is with the government.

Also note GE, affectionately known as Government Electric. And no surprise that the CEO of GE is also an advisor to Obama. GE has received some really sweet deals from this administration from producing medical supplies to green light bulbs. GE is also known for the number of unions it works with, at least 15 in total.


You better check your facts on that one. When Clinton revised the CRA (Community Re-investment Act) lenders, like Countrywide, as the secondary market for mortgage loans, through Clinton's revisions, were able to lower the standards for mortgages. Banks regulated by the CRA often found it difficult to meet their obligations under the CRA directly. They often found that they were at risk of regulators discovering they had fallen behind in making CRA loans. One way of addressing this problem was buying the loans in the secondary market. Mortgage companies like Countrywide marketed its loans directly to banks as a way for them to meet CRA obligations placed on them by Clinton.

It's on record Bush asked that Congress take up the matter as early as 2002. The Republican House passed legislation that would have reined in GSE's but it was the Democrats in the Senate that filibustered it. There are a number of videos on Youtube showing Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Chuck Schumer, Maxine Waters and others stating there was nothing wrong with the way Fannie and Freddie were doing business. When lending institutions started to experience large losses in foreclosures, still the Democrats were claiming nothing was wrong.

Well that's a more fair response then stating "It's Bush's fault"!



No, they really didn't. Neither they nor Greenspan did anything about it. Greenspan even said that oversight would be pointless.



No, I've cited nearly a dozen factors; low interest rates are only one of those factors. And there is far, far more to the expansion of mortgages than low interest rates. E.g. rates are rock bottom right now, but good luck getting a mortgage if your income isn't rock solid.



And how many times do I need to explain that the numerous root causes had nothing to do with the GSEs, or efforts to stop redlining?

And for what I believe is the third time: If the GSE's caused the housing bubble, then what caused the housing bubbles in nearly 50 countries?

Similarly, what caused the bubble in US commercial real estate -- a market in which the GSEs had no involvement whatsoever?
[/QUOTE]

Fannie Mae was CountryWides biggest customer and by 2004 held 70% of all CountryWides crap mortgages.

Franklin Raines and the CEO of CountryWide, Angelo Morrilo both had to pay 8 figure fines for their corruption.( they should be in prison)

By 2008 Fannie alone held almost 60% of all Alt-A, CRA, Sub-Prime, NINA and just generally crap loans or MBSs backed by crap loans.

The National Bureau of Economic report has a study out that directly ties CRA loans and the changes in mandated in Clintons 1995 National Home Owners Strategy as it lowered Capital Requirement Standards for the GSEs from 10% to 3%.

If the banks and lending institutions had been under mandate to lower their standards in the 90s, without the guarantee of those sub-prime mortgages being purchased by the GSEs, the sub-prime bubble would have never reached the level it did.

In 1997 Fannie Mae started turning those low quality loans into "AAA" securities and pushing them out into the markes and never looked back.

They were triple AAA because the inference was they were backed 100% by the US Govt, when in reality only loans purchased by Ginnie Mae are guaranteed 100%.

By 2004 Fannie Mae held over 40% of all privately created toxic MBSs and was the primary consumer of these securities until its collpase in 2008.
 
Fannie Mae was CountryWides biggest customer and by 2004 held 70% of all CountryWides crap mortgages.

Franklin Raines and the CEO of CountryWide, Angelo Morrilo both had to pay 8 figure fines for their corruption.( they should be in prison)

By 2008 Fannie alone held almost 60% of all Alt-A, CRA, Sub-Prime, NINA and just generally crap loans or MBSs backed by crap loans.

The National Bureau of Economic report has a study out that directly ties CRA loans and the changes in mandated in Clintons 1995 National Home Owners Strategy as it lowered Capital Requirement Standards for the GSEs from 10% to 3%.

If the banks and lending institutions had been under mandate to lower their standards in the 90s, without the guarantee of those sub-prime mortgages being purchased by the GSEs, the sub-prime bubble would have never reached the level it did.

In 1997 Fannie Mae started turning those low quality loans into "AAA" securities and pushing them out into the markes and never looked back.

They were triple AAA because the inference was they were backed 100% by the US Govt, when in reality only loans purchased by Ginnie Mae are guaranteed 100%.

By 2004 Fannie Mae held over 40% of all privately created toxic MBSs and was the primary consumer of these securities until its collpase in 2008.

Thanks Fenton, I wasn't aware that Fannie was such a great customer to Countrywide.
 
SB109, was a stricter and better bill.

fenton, I’m still waiting for you to back up that capital requirement change you mentioned yesterday so I wont bother asking you to back up that S109 was “better” than HR 1461. Lets pretend you are right (you pretend that all the time so it should be easy for you) and S109 was better than HR1461, isn’t any reform better than no reform? and fyi fenton, if S109 had passed the senate, then the two chambers work out the differences. But that couldn’t happen because Frist refused to allow a vote. and remember BUSH DID NOT SUPPORT GSE REFORM.

How many Democrats voted for SB109 VERN ?
the same number of republicans, zero. remember, frist refused to allow a vote.

The Republican House passed legislation that would have reined in GSE's but it was the Democrats in the Senate that filibustered it.


wow, more “filibuster” delusions. read this slowly vesper, you cant filibuster something if the republican Senate leader refuses to allow a vote. Second, no legislation was required to “rein” in the GSEs. Bush already had the ability to limit their subprime purchases. We know that because President Clinton had already “reined” them in. and guess who reversed the Clinton restrictions on Freddie and fannie? If you guessed Bush you are correct.

"(In 2000) HUD restricted Freddie and Fannie, saying it would not credit them for loans they purchased that had abusively high costs or that were granted without regard to the borrower's ability to repay."

How HUD Mortgage Policy Fed The Crisis

"In 2004, the 2000 rules were dropped and high risk loans were again counted toward affordable housing goals."

HTTP://WWW.PRMIA.ORG/PDF/CASE_STUDIES/FANNIE_MAE_AND_FREDDIE_MAC_090911_V2.PDF

Notice the key phrase “without regard to the borrower's ability to repay”. That was the Bush Mortgage Bubble.

Well that's a more fair response then stating "It's Bush's fault"!
the problem with your latest narrative is it overlooks the documented time frame of the Bush Mortgage Bubble and Bush’s toxic housing policies. Once again Vesper, your narratives require you to pretend not to know the facts and ignore Bush’s policies.
 
wow vesper, your 10,000 word posts are so steeped in delusions and falsehoods, I don’t catch them all the first time. I didn’t see this nugget the first time.

And the penalty for not doing so amounted bank regulators holding up applications for mergers to being fined..


Please document the fines in the CRA legislation. Don’t do like fenton and just cut and run every time you are asked to back up a falsehood you posted. And since you acknowledge that the CRA supervision was run by the banks regulators and the regulators work for the president, as a bonus, document the fines levied by bush.

while we are waiting for you back up your statements (and we’ll be waiting a long time, a very long time) I’ll give you some more facts about the CRA that shred your silly delusions. The CRA score only affected mergers and acquisitions

“"Since about 95 percent of these institutions generally receive passing CRA grades --outstanding or satisfactory--one would expect about 90 percent of the mergers between two randomly chosen institutions to be approved without a detailed CRA review. In fact, more than 99 percent were. The Treasury Department reports that of the 86,000 merger applications filed since 1985, there were only 755 CRA protests.5 In these protested cases, 690 mergers were approved, and only 65 were denied on CRA grounds, a rejection rate of .0008. "

FRB: Speech, Gramlich -- The Community Reinvestment Act -- June 16, 1999
 
wow vesper, your 10,000 word posts are so steeped in delusions and falsehoods, I don’t catch them all the first time. I didn’t see this nugget the first time.




Please document the fines in the CRA legislation. Don’t do like fenton and just cut and run every time you are asked to back up a falsehood you posted. And since you acknowledge that the CRA supervision was run by the banks regulators and the regulators work for the president, as a bonus, document the fines levied by bush.

while we are waiting for you back up your statements (and we’ll be waiting a long time, a very long time) I’ll give you some more facts about the CRA that shred your silly delusions. The CRA score only affected mergers and acquisitions

“"Since about 95 percent of these institutions generally receive passing CRA grades --outstanding or satisfactory--one would expect about 90 percent of the mergers between two randomly chosen institutions to be approved without a detailed CRA review. In fact, more than 99 percent were. The Treasury Department reports that of the 86,000 merger applications filed since 1985, there were only 755 CRA protests.5 In these protested cases, 690 mergers were approved, and only 65 were denied on CRA grounds, a rejection rate of .0008. "

FRB: Speech, Gramlich -- The Community Reinvestment Act -- June 16, 1999

Not a problem VERN,

According to Congressional Record, V. 145, Pt. 6, April 28, 1999 to May 10 1999, if a bank is found noncompliance with CRA that could mean a fine up to a million dollars a day .

You can access this information on Google books on page 8424 dated May 5, 1999

Congressional Record, V. 145, Pt. 6, April 28, 1999 to May 10 1999 - Google Books
 
fenton, I’m still waiting for you to back up that capital requirement change you mentioned yesterday so I wont bother asking you to back up that S109 was “better” than HR 1461. Lets pretend you are right (you pretend that all the time so it should be easy for you) and S109 was better than HR1461, isn’t any reform better than no reform? and fyi fenton, if S109 had passed the senate, then the two chambers work out the differences. But that couldn’t happen because Frist refused to allow a vote. and remember BUSH DID NOT SUPPORT GSE REFORM.


the same number of republicans, zero. remember, frist refused to allow a vote.




wow, more “filibuster” delusions. read this slowly vesper, you cant filibuster something if the republican Senate leader refuses to allow a vote. Second, no legislation was required to “rein” in the GSEs. Bush already had the ability to limit their subprime purchases. We know that because President Clinton had already “reined” them in. and guess who reversed the Clinton restrictions on Freddie and fannie? If you guessed Bush you are correct.

"(In 2000) HUD restricted Freddie and Fannie, saying it would not credit them for loans they purchased that had abusively high costs or that were granted without regard to the borrower's ability to repay."

How HUD Mortgage Policy Fed The Crisis

"In 2004, the 2000 rules were dropped and high risk loans were again counted toward affordable housing goals."

HTTP://WWW.PRMIA.ORG/PDF/CASE_STUDIES/FANNIE_MAE_AND_FREDDIE_MAC_090911_V2.PDF

Notice the key phrase “without regard to the borrower's ability to repay”. That was the Bush Mortgage Bubble.


the problem with your latest narrative is it overlooks the documented time frame of the Bush Mortgage Bubble and Bush’s toxic housing policies. Once again Vesper, your narratives require you to pretend not to know the facts and ignore Bush’s policies.

The bill passed out of committee on party lines. Senator Chris Dodd threatened a filibuster. You remember Chris Dodd long time friend and buddy to Countrywide?
There were 55 Republicans and 45 Democrats. To reach Cloture you need 60. Because none of the Democrats were willing to vote with the Republicans the bill would be dead in the water. By pulling the legislation from a vote at that time allowed it to stay alive for another day with hopes of convincing a few Democrats to see it their way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRpAn0ToV04
 
fenton, I’m still waiting for you to back up that capital requirement change you
mentioned yesterday so I wont bother asking you to back up that S109 was “better” than HR 1461. Lets pretend you are right (you pretend that all the time so it should be easy for you) and S109 was better than HR1461, isn’t any reform better than no reform? and fyi fenton, if S109 had passed the senate, then the two chambers work out the differences. But that couldn’t happen because Frist refused to allow a vote. and remember BUSH DID NOT SUPPORT GSE REFORM.


the same number of republicans, zero. remember, frist refused to allow a vote.




wow, more “filibuster” delusions. read this slowly vesper, you cant filibuster something if the republican Senate leader refuses to allow a vote. Second, no legislation was required to “rein” in the GSEs. Bush already had the ability to limit their subprime purchases. We know that because President Clinton had already “reined” them in. and guess who reversed the Clinton restrictions on Freddie and fannie? If you guessed Bush you are correct.

"(In 2000) HUD restricted Freddie and Fannie, saying it would not credit them for loans they purchased that had abusively high costs or that were granted without regard to the borrower's ability to repay."

How HUD Mortgage Policy Fed The Crisis

"In 2004, the 2000 rules were dropped and high risk loans were again counted toward affordable housing goals."

HTTP://WWW.PRMIA.ORG/PDF/CASE_STUDIES/FANNIE_MAE_AND_FREDDIE_MAC_090911_V2.PDF

Notice the key phrase “without regard to the borrower's ability to repay”. That was the Bush Mortgage Bubble.


the problem with your latest narrative is it overlooks the documented time frame of the Bush Mortgage Bubble and Bush’s toxic housing policies. Once again Vesper, your narratives require you to pretend not to know the facts and ignore Bush’s policies.

I HAVE posted it for you, pages and pages of documentation amd you cry and whine about it being wordy and then you repeat your desperately ignorant aseertion that it ALL happened after 2004.

You're so stuck in your twisted hate George Buh reality you refuse to educate yourself.

Did Fannie and Freddie NOT go under in 2008 ? Did they NOT get bailed out 100% by our Federal Government ?

Did the Democrats NOT defend them from 2001 to 2006, lie about their health in Commitees, send letters telling Bush not to regulate them ?

Its all documented and you still blame Bush.

Here's the facts.

By 2008 there were 27 million weak mortgages in America with over 70% on the books of Government Sponsored Enterprises.

And most of those were on the books of Fannie and Freddie, the two GSEs the Democrats protected to the teeth as Republicans and Bush tried from 2001 to enact stricter regualtory policies over and over and over.

Thats ALL documented, ( which you refuse to read ) and you still make the goofy claim that they racked up those mortgages from 2004 to 2008.

Over 19 million loans in 4 years...LOL !!

One year before the collapse SB109 was shut down in a Democrat chaired Comitee, but 2 MONTHS before the Collapse the Democrats passed a bill regulating Fannie and Freddie to cover their lying sorry corrupt asses.

How was their bill in 2008 any better than the bill in 2007 they killed in 2007 in Commitee ?

By their legislative actions alone they admitted a year after they killed sb109 that the GSEs need to be regulated, but it was two months prior to the collapse.

You've constructed your own reality around blaming Bush that doesn't square with the evidence and you have yourself there to keep you company.
 
Not a problem VERN,

According to Congressional Record, V. 145, Pt. 6, April 28, 1999 to May 10 1999, if a bank is found noncompliance with CRA that could mean a fine up to a million dollars a day .

You can access this information on Google books on page 8424 dated May 5, 199

no vesper, we have a serious problem. There are no fines for CRA non compliance. I’m starting to be concerned for you well being. Doesn’t the fact that all you could find was testimony of someone proposing fines prove there are no fines. and if you had bothered to read anything other than the sentence fragments you cling to you would see that the testimony said “there is no penalty involved other than a denial of an application “ Your post only proves you will not let reality stop you from believing your false narratives. I find that more scary than sad.


The bill passed out of committee on party lines. Senator Chris Dodd threatened a filibuster. []
Remembering of course you’ve yet to back up the “CRA fines” narrative, back up the filibuster threats. That “narrative” only lives in con editorials and posts. Read this slowly. BUSH WAS AGAINST REFORM. That’s why Frist refused to allow a vote. the “filibuster” delusion is just another “narrative” cons cling to just like “CRA fines”. And dont forget, the orignal delusion was it didnt make it out of committee. see how you have to change your narratives. And your delusion requires to ignore BUSH WAS AGAINST REFORM.

and thanks for the ridiculous youtube video. Now that you know that Bush told barney there was nothing wrong with Freddie and Fannie, you should start to realize you are being manipulated by fox news.

I HAVE posted it for you, pages and pages of documentation amd you cry and whine about it being wordy and then you repeat your desperately ignorant aseertion that it ALL happened after 2004.

Oh fenton, you’ve never documented that GSE capital requirements were changed in 1995. And I just point out how whenever I post facts that shred your silly narrative you feel compelled to post 10,000 words but can never address what I posted. Perfect example, you and Vesper just cant acknowledge that BUSH WAS AGAINST REFORM and Bush reversed the Clinton rule that ‘reined’ in Freddie and fannies subprime purchases. and dont forget Bush told barney there was nothing wrong with freddie and fannie.
 
Your'e wrong, so wrong.

"Big Banks had neither the power or the inclination to start loaning out massive amounts of their principle to people that would more than likely NOT pay it back.

IF you want to know what REALLY started AND perpetuated the crisis look to Bill Clintons 1995 National HomeOwnership Strategy, his and Janet Reno's threats against banks who were "redlining" and his construction and perpetuation of the whole redlining false narrative.

His appointment of corrupt Democrats to run the GSEs including Franklin Raines.

I mean you DO realize Fannie Mae started turning crap loans into securities in 1997.

There is no excuse for the amount of ignorance you just displayed on the sub-prime collapse.

Nope very much right. AS evidence that you have not been able to debunk a single thing I stated in my post. (because they are true)

Big banks certainly had an incentive to give out these loans. Its called profit. The profit that they got from selling them. Where do you think the bonus paid to the executives came from? The tooth fairy?

Banks were not forced to give out these loans... because the fact is.. the CRA is still in effect.. its not been repealed.. so if it was forcing them to give loans then.. it would be forcing them to give loans NOW.. but its not.

If you claim it was "enforcement by Clinton"... when then it must have been exactly the same under bush.. because it really came to a head in the 2000's.


For all your diatribe.. you can't get around the basic facts... Which are that the banks gave out risky loans because it made them profit. The deregulation of the banking industry under the republicans AND signed by Clinton helped spur that on. The CRA did not force banks to give these loans (because if it did, they would still be forced today) And that the GSE's certainly was throwing gas on the fire.. but they were relatively late to the game.

Twist turn and insult people.. but those are the basic facts.
 
Nope very much right. AS evidence that you have not been able to debunk a single
thing I stated in my post. (because they are true)

Big banks certainly had an incentive to give out these loans. Its called profit. The profit that they got from selling them. Where do you think the bonus paid to the executives came from? The tooth fairy?

Banks were not forced to give out these loans... because the fact is.. the CRA is still in effect.. its not been repealed.. so if it was forcing them to give loans then.. it would be forcing them to give loans NOW.. but its not.

If you claim it was "enforcement by Clinton"... when then it must have been exactly the same under bush.. because it really came to a head in the 2000's.


For all your diatribe.. you can't get around the basic facts... Which are that the banks gave out risky loans because it made them profit. The deregulation of the banking industry under the republicans AND signed by Clinton helped spur that on. The CRA did not force banks to give these loans (because if it did, they would still be forced today) And that the GSE's certainly was throwing gas on the fire.. but they were relatively late to the game.

Twist turn and insult people.. but those are the basic facts.

Here's your argument, based on your opinion alone..." The Big greedy banks did it". It's simplistic, generic and wrong.

Here's my argument ...and it also happens to be the truth so listen up.

In 1992 Congress enacted legislation that imposed a new " affordable housing " requirement on the GSEs.

Part of this requirement was that the GSEs had to purchase a minumum of 30% of their loans from low to Moderate income home buyers.

In 1994 Clinton and HUD Secretary Henry Cisneros came up with a plan and in 1995 The National HomeOwners Strategy ( a long list of Executive Orders ) was implemented.

It included allowing homebuyers to dip into their 401ks for a down payment without a penalty, AND it lowered Capital Requirements on loans purchased by Fannie and Freddie from 10% to 3%.

Clinton ALSO from 1993 to 1998 replaced ALL of the GSE executives and most of their board members with his Democrat Cronies including Franklin Raines.

Who from 1998 to 2004 misreported over 10 BILLION dollars in profit so he could meet his executive bonus targets.

Clinton and his AG Janet Reno also threatened banks with strict retalliation if they were caught " redlining". A false narrative that banks were discriminating based on color.

The GSEs were put under HUD regulatory control with mandates to meet a rising QUOTA of buying crap loans and by 2000 that quota had reached 55%.

In 2000 Andrew Cuomo, the then Secretary of HUD commited 2 TRILLION dollars to the buying of " affordable mortgages". The idiot left gave him a Governorship for his troubles.

Fannie Mae in 1997 turned their first low quality loan into a security and never looked back, poisoning the asset markets with billions in MBSs that were "AAA" but backed by low quality loans. They were also the primary consumer of privately produced Mortgage Backed Securities and by 2004 held over 40% of them.

When Fannies regulator warned the Congress in 2004 of their imminent demise, the democrats at Fannie and Freddie responded by diving into NINA loans.

The Economic Bureau of Research has a study out on how the CRA laws contributed to the bubble. You should read that before piping off.

In 2004 Fannies Regulator warned Congress that the Housing Giant was headed for insolvency. Democrats dug in, lied in front of republican held commitees and stopped efforts to enact new regulatory action that would have walked back the crisis.

72 of them signed a letter and sent it to Bush warning him not to regualte Fannie and Freddie.

Hell, they even produced a Commercial complaining Bush's new regulatory body was going to stop the availabillity of "affordable mortgages".

17 times, starting in 2001 Bush and the Republicans tried get the growing and corrupt mortgage giant under control.

By the time 2008 rolled around Fannie and Freddie alone held almost 70% of all low quality loans or MBSs backed by low quality loans in America.

Fannie was also Country Wides best customer, as Country Wide offered VIP loans to top Democrats like Chris Dodd.

Over 5 Trillion dollars worth......

And YOU blame the banks.
 
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