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‘We’re citizens!’: Oklahoma City family traumatized after ICE raids home, but they weren’t suspects (1 Viewer)

Lutherf said:
Is that a fact? I haven’t seen that a copy of the warrant was released so if you have access to it I’d ask that you point me in that direction
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It’s a fact seeing as how ICE did a raid on a house full of citizens…
 
Lutherf said:
Is that a fact? I haven’t seen that a copy of the warrant was released so if you have access to it I’d ask that you point me in that direction
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That hasn’t stopped you from making up rationalizations to justify this.
 
It says that the warrant was
Jezcoe said:
Even that says

“The previous residents were the intended targets of the raid.”

They raided the wrong people.

Why dispute that?
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for the residence, not specific individuals.
 
Lutherf said:
It says that the warrant was

for the residence, not specific individuals.
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What information does the government gain from seizing the phones, computers, and cash of the wrong people?
 
Jezcoe said:
What information does the government gain from seizing the phones, computers, and cash of the wrong people?
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We don’t yet know these are the wrong people. The statement by HSI says as much.
 
Lutherf said:
We don’t yet know these are the wrong people. The statement by HSI says as much.
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It was a woman who moved there a month before with her two daughters.

It was the wrong people.

We all know it was the wrong the people.

The government knows it was the wrong people.

Everyone knows it was the wrong people.

What value does the government get out of seizing the property from the wrong people?
 
Jezcoe said:
It was a woman who moved there a month before with her two daughters.

It was the wrong people.

We all know it was the wrong the people.

The government knows it was the wrong people.

Everyone knows it was the wrong people.

What value does the government get out of seizing the property from the wrong people?
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OK. It’s certainly your right to ignore the stated purpose of the warrant but, as it happens, willful ignorance doesn’t make your assessment reasonable.
 
From the KFOR news site:

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security later told News 4 that they were searching for the previous residents of the home, and the mother and her three daughters, who are all U.S. citizens and had moved to Oklahoma City from Maryland two weeks prior to the incident, were not suspects in the operation.
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This is days after the raid.

Since the residents have officially be classified as non suspects, their personal property and funds should be returned to them.

I wonder if a copy of the warrant was left with the residents?
At the very least they should have left contact information and a case number.
We are not quite at the Gestapo level of policing, but we are edging towards it with the DOJ memo saying warrants are not required.

If the authorities had the place under surveillance for a month prior to the raid, and the place had set empty for two weeks and then the new residents had occupied it for two weeks, how was this not noted in their field notes?
It would seem a simple request at the post office would have shown recent changes in occupation.

As it is a landlord is now having to replace a door. Not sure how much damage occurred but I have seen houses in which the sheet rock on the walls was kicked in beneath every light switch and electrical outlet. Seems one way to hide things is to tie a string to it and suspend it below the box.
 
Lutherf said:
OK. It’s certainly your right to ignore the stated purpose of the warrant but, as it happens, willful ignorance doesn’t make your assessment reasonable.
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The stated purpose of the warrant was to seize the property of completely different people than who was in the house.

They ****ed up.

What do you personally gain from running interference on an obvious **** up?
 
NolanVoyd said:
FACT: entering the country illegally is not a felony.

It is a misdemeanor and a civil violation.


Meanwhile you put a convicted felon. (34 felonies) . In the white house.
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That should have been painful.

But it would have hurt the hearts they do not have.
 
Minerva said:
From the KFOR news site:



This is days after the raid.

Since the residents have officially be classified as non suspects, their personal property and funds should be returned to them.

I wonder if a copy of the warrant was left with the residents?
At the very least they should have left contact information and a case number.
We are not quite at the Gestapo level of policing, but we are edging towards it with the DOJ memo saying warrants are not required.

If the authorities had the place under surveillance for a month prior to the raid, and the place had set empty for two weeks and then the new residents had occupied it for two weeks, how was this not noted in their field notes?
It would seem a simple request at the post office would have shown recent changes in occupation.

As it is a landlord is now having to replace a door. Not sure how much damage occurred but I have seen houses in which the sheet rock on the walls was kicked in beneath every light switch and electrical outlet. Seems one way to hide things is to tie a string to it and suspend it below the box.
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I am reminded of the movie “Brazil” where because of a bug falling into a machine, it caused the government to arrest and torture the wrong man and the upstairs neighbor who is trying to find out what happened is marked a terrorist because the government doesn’t make mistakes.
 
Lutherf said:
We don’t yet know these are the wrong people. The statement by HSI says as much.
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So, it's not wrong for ICE to do this to citizens? That's what you are indicating by saying "we don't yet know if these are the wrong people".

That being said, I have questions.

1. Why didn't any member of the jack-booted raid team go "whoa, what are we doing to this woman and children?"
2. What were the neighbors doing? Ignoring what was happening?
3. How is the community helping this family after they were treated this way?

The reason I ask these questions is, depending on the answers, what are the indications that this kind of ICE behavior can be gotten away with again and again and again in the future with little if any pushback.
 
Lutherf said:
OK. It’s certainly your right to ignore the stated purpose of the warrant but, as it happens, willful ignorance doesn’t make your assessment reasonable.
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ICE abusing citizens........fact.
 
I belong to a few political forums. And one thing I see in the others is there is always members like this Lutherf member that do everything under the sun to ignore facts, deny reality, defend the indefensible and are just plain delusional. All because they just don’t to look bad and have their pride/ego hurt. Every single one of them get blocked and ignored by everyone. So they either leave, or they end up typing to themselves because nobody will engage with them anymore.
 
Tamuro said:
I belong to a few political forums. And one thing I see in the others is there is always members like this Lutherf member that do everything under the sun to ignore facts, deny reality, defend the indefensible and are just plain delusional. All because they just don’t to look bad and have their pride/ego hurt. Every single one of them get blocked and ignored by everyone. So they either leave, or they end up typing to themselves because nobody will engage with them anymore.
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Yeah. I’m an asshole and always have been. Thanks for the validation.
 
Minerva said:
From the KFOR news site:



This is days after the raid.

Since the residents have officially be classified as non suspects, their personal property and funds should be returned to them.

I wonder if a copy of the warrant was left with the residents?
At the very least they should have left contact information and a case number.
We are not quite at the Gestapo level of policing, but we are edging towards it with the DOJ memo saying warrants are not required.

If the authorities had the place under surveillance for a month prior to the raid, and the place had set empty for two weeks and then the new residents had occupied it for two weeks, how was this not noted in their field notes?
It would seem a simple request at the post office would have shown recent changes in occupation.

As it is a landlord is now having to replace a door. Not sure how much damage occurred but I have seen houses in which the sheet rock on the walls was kicked in beneath every light switch and electrical outlet. Seems one way to hide things is to tie a string to it and suspend it below the box.
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Outside of KFOR and the experts on DP, who has classified the residents as non-suspects?
 
Lutherf said:
Outside of KFOR and the experts on DP, who has classified the residents as non-suspects?
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And you are dancing all around trying to pretend that they are suspects, based on nothing (as usual).
 
Lutherf said:
Outside of KFOR and the experts on DP, who has classified the residents as non-suspects?
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From KFOR they are quoting Homeland Security.
They are not in the business of making up quotes.

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security later told News 4 that they were searching for the previous residents of the home, and the mother and her three daughters, who are all U.S. citizens and had moved to Oklahoma City from Maryland recently, were not suspects in the operation.
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Later in the article HS contradicts itself and says they have not ruled Marisa out as a subject. Sounds like their legal beagles are circling the wagons.
 
Minerva said:
From KFOR they are quoting Homeland Security.
They are not in the business of making up quotes.



Later in the article HS contradicts itself and says they have not ruled Marisa out as a subject. Sounds like their legal beagles are circling the wagons.
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KFOR may well be the ones covering their reporting. Based on reporting I have read it appears that raid is part of an ongoing investigation and that the home was known to be a stash house. While the prior residents seem to be directly tied to the investigation the homeowner apparently own several properties in the area and is also a principle in the investigation. That, if it’s the case, brings up the distinct possibility that she is renting to “trusted” associates that facilitate the smuggling and it’s a distinct possibility that the current resident is part of that operation.
 
Lutherf said:
KFOR may well be the ones covering their reporting. Based on reporting I have read it appears that raid is part of an ongoing investigation and that the home was known to be a stash house. While the prior residents seem to be directly tied to the investigation the homeowner apparently own several properties in the area and is also a principle in the investigation. That, if it’s the case, brings up the distinct possibility that she is renting to “trusted” associates that facilitate the smuggling and it’s a distinct possibility that the current resident is part of that operation.
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The bolded must be precisely why she went aggressively public with the story of her plight.

Does that seriously make one iota of sense to you?

Occam is calling and he wants his razor back because you obviously do not know how to use it.
 
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A friend of the family has set up a GoFundMe account to help out.
It's been online maybe a day now? It has raised nearly 26K so far.
 
marduc said:
The bolded must be precisely why she went aggressively public with the story of her plight.

Does that seriously make one iota of sense to you?

Occam is calling and he wants his razor back because you obviously do not know how to use it.
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She would be FAR from the first to do so.
 
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