• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

‘It’s not a pretty picture’: Russia’s support is growing in the developing world

Russia support will fade when Trump is no longer a factor.
 
I think it's a bit of a problem. In theory the West ought to enjoy significant goodwill with the developing world given both values of societal freedom as well as generous aid over the last several decades. Unfortunately, much of the developing world looks closely at some of the West's worst impulses -- invading Iraq on a lie, imposing a puppet king in Iran then getting cranky when said puppet is kicked out, and innumerable other examples -- all of which tarnish what otherwise ought to be a positive impression. There are people alive in many parts of the world who still have living grandparents who lived under western colonial occupation and need to see an enduring track record that the west is better than that. It's unfortunate we botched things up with misadventures such as Iraq and Afghanistan - it makes us look ill-spirited, unreliable and vindictive. Versus that track record, emergent China ends up looking like a great bet.

Sure, many of these nations will learn that China isn't exactly a reliable partner--eventually--but by that time it'll be too late.

I continue to think India is the key here - it's at this point pretty much the world's most populous nation. And while some have had heartburn over more nationalistic tendencies there, it's still very much a secular democracy with a long track record of peaceful relations. India and the West should be peas in a pod.
 
craig said:
So your point. Russia is falling like a stone. It will not rise again util there is new leadership.
Click to expand...


Lord Haw Haw :)
 
phoenix2020 said:
Sure, many of these nations will learn that China isn't exactly a reliable partner--eventually--but by that time it'll be too late.

I continue to think India is the key here - it's at this point pretty much the world's most populous nation. And while some have had heartburn over more nationalistic tendencies there, it's still very much a secular democracy with a long track record of peaceful relations. India and the West should be peas in a pod.
Click to expand...



Very good points
 
phoenix2020 said:
I think it's a bit of a problem. In theory the West ought to enjoy significant goodwill with the developing world given both values of societal freedom as well as generous aid over the last several decades. Unfortunately, much of the developing world looks closely at some of the West's worst impulses -- invading Iraq on a lie, imposing a puppet king in Iran then getting cranky when said puppet is kicked out, and innumerable other examples -- all of which tarnish what otherwise ought to be a positive impression. There are people alive in many parts of the world who still have living grandparents who lived under western colonial occupation and need to see an enduring track record that the west is better than that. It's unfortunate we botched things up with misadventures such as Iraq and Afghanistan - it makes us look ill-spirited, unreliable and vindictive. Versus that track record, emergent China ends up looking like a great bet.

Sure, many of these nations will learn that China isn't exactly a reliable partner--eventually--but by that time it'll be too late.

I continue to think India is the key here - it's at this point pretty much the world's most populous nation. And while some have had heartburn over more nationalistic tendencies there, it's still very much a secular democracy with a long track record of peaceful relations. India and the West should be peas in a pod.
Click to expand...

Also, the U.S. needs them to continue using the dollar because that's the only way it can continue voodoo economics:

seekingalpha.com

Krugman and the Pied Pipers of Debt

Investors are celebrating an incipient “recovery,” but the interventions that were responsible for it are sowing the seeds of a more violent contraction...
seekingalpha.com seekingalpha.com
 
craig said:
So your point. Russia is falling like a stone. It will not rise again util there is new leadership.
Click to expand...

More like the U.S. that has problems, especially this plus other points. For example,

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com

www.foxbusiness.com

Japan buys Russian oil above $60-a-barrel cap, breaking with US allies: report

Japan has been buying Russian oil below the Western-imposed price cap of $60 a barrel, though Russian-sourced imports remain relatively small.
www.foxbusiness.com www.foxbusiness.com

It gets worse when you read up on what BRICS and emerging markets have been doing the past few days.
 
Juin said:
Lord Haw Haw :)
Click to expand...

The U.S. needs other countries to continue using the dollar and to remain in its orbit because that's the only way it can continue borrowing and spending heavily.
 
phoenix2020 said:
I think it's a bit of a problem. In theory the West ought to enjoy significant goodwill with the developing world given both values of societal freedom as well as generous aid over the last several decades. Unfortunately, much of the developing world looks closely at some of the West's worst impulses -- invading Iraq on a lie, imposing a puppet king in Iran then getting cranky when said puppet is kicked out, and innumerable other examples -- all of which tarnish what otherwise ought to be a positive impression. There are people alive in many parts of the world who still have living grandparents who lived under western colonial occupation and need to see an enduring track record that the west is better than that. It's unfortunate we botched things up with misadventures such as Iraq and Afghanistan - it makes us look ill-spirited, unreliable and vindictive. Versus that track record, emergent China ends up looking like a great bet.

Sure, many of these nations will learn that China isn't exactly a reliable partner--eventually--but by that time it'll be too late.

I continue to think India is the key here - it's at this point pretty much the world's most populous nation. And while some have had heartburn over more nationalistic tendencies there, it's still very much a secular democracy with a long track record of peaceful relations. India and the West should be peas in a pod.
Click to expand...
www.thehindu.com

India, Malaysia move beyond dollar to settle trade in INR

The announcement came against the backdrop of ongoing official efforts to Safeguard Indian trade from the impact of Ukraine crisis
www.thehindu.com www.thehindu.com
 
More:

www.aseanbriefing.com

ASEAN Finance Ministers and Central Banks Consider Dropping US Dollar, Euro and Yen, Indonesia Calls for Phasing Out Visa and Mastercard

A meeting between ASEAN Finance Ministers and Central Bank Governors discussed the move to settle financial transactions and settlements in local currencies.
www.aseanbriefing.com www.aseanbriefing.com

www.silkroadbriefing.com

Brazil & China Sign Agreement To Drop US Dollar And Use RMB Yuan – Real In Bilateral Trade - Silk Road Briefing

US$150 billion in annual trade will now be settled in respective currencies Beijing and Brazil have signed an agreement on trade in mutual currencies, abandoning the US dollar as an intermediary, and are also planning to expand cooperation on food and minerals. The agreement will enable the two...
www.silkroadbriefing.com

www.tehrantimes.com

More nations plan to ditch U.S. dollar

TEHRAN- Brazil and Argentina are planning on a common currency for the region in a bid to distance themselves from the U.S. dollar.
www.tehrantimes.com www.tehrantimes.com
 
phoenix2020 said:
I think it's a bit of a problem. In theory the West ought to enjoy significant goodwill with the developing world given both values of societal freedom as well as generous aid over the last several decades. Unfortunately, much of the developing world looks closely at some of the West's worst impulses -- invading Iraq on a lie, imposing a puppet king in Iran then getting cranky when said puppet is kicked out, and innumerable other examples -- all of which tarnish what otherwise ought to be a positive impression. There are people alive in many parts of the world who still have living grandparents who lived under western colonial occupation and need to see an enduring track record that the west is better than that. It's unfortunate we botched things up with misadventures such as Iraq and Afghanistan - it makes us look ill-spirited, unreliable and vindictive. Versus that track record, emergent China ends up looking like a great bet.

Sure, many of these nations will learn that China isn't exactly a reliable partner--eventually--but by that time it'll be too late.

I continue to think India is the key here - it's at this point pretty much the world's most populous nation. And while some have had heartburn over more nationalistic tendencies there, it's still very much a secular democracy with a long track record of peaceful relations. India and the West should be peas in a pod.
Click to expand...
This is either fantastic stupidity or fantastic hypocrisy.

Since the end of the Cold War, the whole world has become a colony for Western imperialism. Capitalism and the so-called democracy have become an institution of corruption, capitalism is a source of almost slavery. The USA and Europe are luring out the entire intellectual color of the nation... and these ungrateful countries also dare to dislike the West.
I'm afraid you don't understand, the growth of support for Russia is primarily related to hatred of the West, which robs developing countries, imposes enslaving contracts and demands to change its culture to suit its agenda and thank for it.
But there is an end to everything.
 
ralfy said:
www.cnbc.com

'It's not a pretty picture': Russia's support is growing in the developing world

Russia's sphere of influence is growing as propaganda and diplomatic efforts gather momentum, analysts suggest.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com
Click to expand...

phoenix2020 said:
I think it's a bit of a problem. In theory the West ought to enjoy significant goodwill with the developing world given both values of societal freedom as well as generous aid over the last several decades. Unfortunately, much of the developing world looks closely at some of the West's worst impulses -- invading Iraq on a lie, imposing a puppet king in Iran then getting cranky when said puppet is kicked out, and innumerable other examples -- all of which tarnish what otherwise ought to be a positive impression. There are people alive in many parts of the world who still have living grandparents who lived under western colonial occupation and need to see an enduring track record that the west is better than that. It's unfortunate we botched things up with misadventures such as Iraq and Afghanistan - it makes us look ill-spirited, unreliable and vindictive. Versus that track record, emergent China ends up looking like a great bet.

Sure, many of these nations will learn that China isn't exactly a reliable partner--eventually--but by that time it'll be too late.

I continue to think India is the key here - it's at this point pretty much the world's most populous nation. And while some have had heartburn over more nationalistic tendencies there, it's still very much a secular democracy with a long track record of peaceful relations. India and the West should be peas in a pod.
Click to expand...

This report is very flawed as it focuses almost entirely on the opinions of government officials, government experts, and government decision-makers.

It then categorizes support based on GDP and population data.

I’m not at all impressed that the opinions of ordinary people are not consideredx

And I’m especially dismissive of the opinions of autocrats, monarchs, religious extremists, and communists.
 
Fabiusbile said:
This is either fantastic stupidity or fantastic hypocrisy.

Since the end of the Cold War, the whole world has become a colony for Western imperialism. Capitalism and the so-called democracy have become an institution of corruption, capitalism is a source of almost slavery. The USA and Europe are luring out the entire intellectual color of the nation... and these ungrateful countries also dare to dislike the West.
I'm afraid you don't understand, the growth of support for Russia is primarily related to hatred of the West, which robs developing countries, imposes enslaving contracts and demands to change its culture to suit its agenda and thank for it.
But there is an end to everything.
Click to expand...

Yes, there is an end to everything, but Western dominance of the world isn't ending anytime soon.
 
Fabiusbile said:
This is either fantastic stupidity or fantastic hypocrisy.

Since the end of the Cold War, the whole world has become a colony for Western imperialism. Capitalism and the so-called democracy have become an institution of corruption, capitalism is a source of almost slavery. The USA and Europe are luring out the entire intellectual color of the nation... and these ungrateful countries also dare to dislike the West.
I'm afraid you don't understand, the growth of support for Russia is primarily related to hatred of the West, which robs developing countries, imposes enslaving contracts and demands to change its culture to suit its agenda and thank for it.
But there is an end to everything.
Click to expand...

This is Putin’s propaganda, and his propaganda has fooled you.

There is nothing you’re writing here that is true. This is just a collection of lies you heard on television.

The vast majority of the world’s population, actual regular people, clearly support Ukraine and hate the fact that Russia invaded Ukraine.

I’m not talking about the decisions that leaders of countries have made to gain access to Russian resources, I’m talking about regular, ordinary people.
 
ralfy said:
The U.S. needs other countries to continue using the dollar and to remain in its orbit because that's the only way it can continue borrowing and spending heavily.
Click to expand...

The fact the entire world uses the dollar is helpful to the United States, but all of the worlds countries aside from the United States function perfectly fine without their own currencies being dominant. The widespread use of the dollar is only a minor advantage. It’s just not something U.S. decision-makers and policymakers worry about obsessively.

Why?

The answer is very simple:

It’s a consequence of the strength of the U.S. economy not the cause.
 
W_Heisenberg said:
This report is very flawed as it focuses almost entirely on the opinions of government officials, government experts, and government decision-makers.

It then categorizes support based on GDP and population data.

I’m not at all impressed that the opinions of ordinary people are not consideredx

And I’m especially dismissive of the opinions of autocrats, monarchs, religious extremists, and communists.
Click to expand...




Actually, how you interprete data, the data you select is what is flawed. Since the beggining of this crisis western propagandists had sought to project this image of a failed and isolated Russia. To that end they cooked up polls and studies which you quickly bought up. You will see more and more articles like the above. Why? Because propaganda can only hold up so long. Propaganda by their nature tend to have short half lives; as reality and truth crushes them inevitably.


The picture gets uglier and uglier. The European public has also been wisening up. Expect to see similar drop in support for the neocon project as reality crushes their propaganda in Europe.
 
I just like that Russia was so intelligent and strategy savvy and powerful that they went into the Ukraine and conquered them within a week.

It would be embarrassing to have a stalemate.
 
Juin said:
Actually, how you interprete data, the data you select is what is flawed. Since the beggining of this crisis western propagandists had sought to project this image of a failed and isolated Russia.
Click to expand...

I just watched a video posted by @Litwin showing that the countries that Russia is selling its oil to aren’t actually paying their bills.

Juin said:
To that end they cooked up polls and studies which you quickly bought up. You will see more and more articles like the above. Why? Because propaganda can only hold up so long. Propaganda by their nature tend to have short half lives; as reality and truth crushes them inevitably.
Click to expand...

It’s always been true since the beginning of its illegal invasion of Ukraine that Russia has garnered support from countries like China, Iran, and North Korea. And I just don’t find that particularly impressive. You think it’s impressive but then again you do not support the idea of democracy. It’s just not something you care about.

There’s also nothing that has been reported in Western media that contradicts this. The West and Westerners have a full understanding of where the rest of the world stands and we just don’t care that much what a Saudi Arabian monarch thinks.

Juin said:
The picture gets uglier and uglier. The European public has also been wisening up. Expect to see similar drop in support for the neocon project as reality crushes their propaganda in Europe.
Click to expand...

The opinion of the European public matters far more to me than the opinions of pro-Russian dictators.

And what you’re doing in this post is conflating the two. That’s a big mistake on your part and that’s the source of your confusion and the confusion of the OP.
 
W_Heisenberg said:
I just watched a video posted by @Litwin showing that the countries that Russia is selling its oil to aren’t actually paying their bills.



It’s always been true since the beginning of its illegal invasion of Ukraine that Russia has garnered support from countries like China, Iran, and North Korea. And I just don’t find that particularly impressive. You think it’s impressive but then again you do not support the idea of democracy. It’s just not something you care about.

There’s also nothing that has been reported in Western media that contradicts this. The West and Westerners have a full understanding of where the rest of the world stands and we just don’t care that much what a Saudi Arabian monarch thinks.



The opinion of the European public matters far more to me than the opinions of pro-Russian dictators.

And what you’re doing in this post is conflating the two. That’s a big mistake on your part and that’s the source of your confusion and the confusion of the OP.
Click to expand...
yes, even MORE :





 
ralfy said:
More:

www.aseanbriefing.com

ASEAN Finance Ministers and Central Banks Consider Dropping US Dollar, Euro and Yen, Indonesia Calls for Phasing Out Visa and Mastercard

A meeting between ASEAN Finance Ministers and Central Bank Governors discussed the move to settle financial transactions and settlements in local currencies.
www.aseanbriefing.com www.aseanbriefing.com

www.silkroadbriefing.com

Brazil & China Sign Agreement To Drop US Dollar And Use RMB Yuan – Real In Bilateral Trade - Silk Road Briefing

US$150 billion in annual trade will now be settled in respective currencies Beijing and Brazil have signed an agreement on trade in mutual currencies, abandoning the US dollar as an intermediary, and are also planning to expand cooperation on food and minerals. The agreement will enable the two...
www.silkroadbriefing.com

www.tehrantimes.com

More nations plan to ditch U.S. dollar

TEHRAN- Brazil and Argentina are planning on a common currency for the region in a bid to distance themselves from the U.S. dollar.
www.tehrantimes.com www.tehrantimes.com
Click to expand...

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom