‘Don’t retaliate!’ Trump’s treasury secretary begs other countries not to hit back at tariffs (2 Viewers)

[Pyrite]

Post #185


You seem to believe that, trump's having started a trade war, the citizens of the USA have the ability to persuade other nations not to retaliate. That's not realistic.

I've already addressed judicial decisions. I've already talked about the dim prospect the Republican-dominated Houses will pass legislation to try to nullify trump's tariffs. I've also pointed out the very obvious fact trump would simply veto any such bills that somehow passed both Houses.

I've pointed out the possibility the mid-terms will upset the GOP majorities in Congress. However, that wouldn't change the fact trump will still control the Executive Branch.

Lawsuits are perhaps already initiated. There is one glaring problem, however, with pinning any hope on these court challenges: trump has shown that he doesn't exactly give a flying **** about complying with inconvenient judicial rulilngs.

I imagine the nations trump has targeted with these unnecessary tariffs know all of this. That they realize full well there is little to nothing American voters can do at this point in time. That these countries will likely do what they believe is in their own best interests is something we should accept, along with the reality that we Americans do not and cannot dictate how other nations respond to trump's mimicking of Smoot-Hawley....right?

No the thread started with me defending the actions of Trump’s treasury secretary as he begs other countries not to hit back at tariffs

and I think those actions are good


you also don't respond to trade wars, not having any solvency
so why not explore routes that lead to less people suffering

Post #198


`````````````````````````````````

Ah, so your point is this: other nations should not retaliate against trump's imposition of unnecessary tariffs against them, for fear of impoverishing their people and Americans.

That's nice. My point is this: we do not, we cannot, control the reactions of other countries.

Next?

 

[Evilroddy]

Former US trading partners should all agree very publicly to soon dump all the US Dollars they have held and collapse the US economy when the US Dollar collapses. If Mr. Trump and his entourage don't back down then tank his country's economy and then let angry American mobs deal with the lot of them in the old fashioned way. While America spirals into internal chaos and economic collapse the rest of us can begin picking up the pieces and begin rebuilding a global economy minus America from the ruin which Mr. Trump has delivered upon us all, including the hoodwinked American citizens whom he conned.

Be as well and as safe as possible in the New Dark Ages. The Pox Americana is upon us and Mr. Trump is the flee on the brown rat's arse which brought this economic pandemic upon us - twice.
Evilroddy

 

[Hamish Howl]

you have only been delivering one-liners and not actually debating my substance, just nitpicking my posts to take out of context.

Genuinely saddening because I want to discuss the ideas

That's only because your ideas are bad.

 

[Hamish Howl]

"near fast enough to matter." Neither of us has any idea how long this is.

And again, anything to avoid people being hurt needlessly when CIVILIANS DON'T DESERVE IT

Is destiny making the left less empathetic?
Empathy was always one of the cornerstones of the left, now it just feels like a bunch of angry people saying f*** it

Who is the left? Do I sound like a progressive?

 

[Dark]

Post #198


`````````````````````````````````

Ah, so your point is this: other nations should not retaliate against trump's imposition of unnecessary tariffs against them, for fear of impoverishing their people and Americans.

That's nice. My point is this: we do not, we cannot, control the reactions of other countries.

Next?

dude, please attempt to actually understand what I am saying because we 100% are closer than you think we are.

Starting a global trade war is bad for the citizens of EVERY COUNTRY.
them waiting to retaliate so America can attempt to solve, does 0 harm to anyone.
So why not support internal solutions rather than reactions that cause a global trade war

 

[What if...?]

"near fast enough to matter." Neither of us has any idea how long this is.

And again, anything to avoid people being hurt needlessly when CIVILIANS DON'T DESERVE IT

Is destiny making the left less empathetic?
Empathy was always one of the cornerstones of the left, now it just feels like a bunch of angry people saying f*** it

Those people are already going to be hurt. It just hasn’t hit them yet. Trump hurt them all by himself.

Maybe they would be hurt more by retaliation. Maybe billionaires will be hurt and it will end as abruptly as it began.

But a 100% trump caused recession is likely unavoidable at this point. Retaliation or no.

So I’m not down with “try to fix it within the rules” as not plausible for a guy who does not obey rules. Especially when all of the solutions would take far too long even if successful.

MAGA deserves to suffer. The rest of us can feast on their tears. That should take some of the sting out for the rest of us.

 

[Dark]

Who is the left? Do I sound like a progressive?

your thing says liberal so... I assumed

 

[Dark]

That's only because your ideas are bad.

Reiterate my point to me accurately and that's a valid criticism. you are sadly incapable of such a thing because you either

1. are choosing to not understand
2. can't understand
3. I am communicating it in such a way you dont understand (which feels unlikely because i have had to explain myself to 7 different people.)

 

[What if...?]

"near fast enough to matter." Neither of us has any idea how long this is.

And again, anything to avoid people being hurt needlessly when CIVILIANS DON'T DESERVE IT

Is destiny making the left less empathetic?
Empathy was always one of the cornerstones of the left, now it just feels like a bunch of angry people saying f*** it

Your entire list is a bunch of long drawn out processes.

And we’re all gonna be too busy riding out the recession Clown Boy just set us up for.

 

[Allan]

now, Donald Trump and all his rich lackies are gonna pay, right?

Retaliatory tariffs are intended to punish America. Donald and all his rich lackies are your problem.

 

[Dark]

Those people are already going to be hurt. It just hasn’t hit them yet. Trump hurt them all by himself.

Maybe they would be hurt more by retaliation. Maybe billionaires will be hurt and it will end as abruptly as it began.

The issue is this will 1000% not happen. they will be hurt but still be billionaires. while the people suffer

 

[Dark]

Retaliatory tariffs are intended to punish America. Donald is your problem.

again I think that isn't the best solution but we can agree to disagree

 

[Hamish Howl]

your thing says liberal so... I assumed

Yes. Liberal.

Liberals do things differently than progressives, like *checks notes*

1. Throws tea in the harbor, shoots at strongest army in the world, and tars and feathers Tories.

2. It takes a while to get us going, but then we drop nukes on your house.

3. Believes that the best defense is 6500 nuclear weapons.

4. Strings up war criminals like big Nazi pinatas.

Read up on it for yourself.

 

[Hamish Howl]

The issue is this will 1000% not happen. they will be hurt but still be billionaires. while the people suffer

Or maybe they won't.

 

[Dark]

Yes. Liberal.

Liberals do things differently than progressives, like *checks notes*

1. Throws tea in the harbor, shoots at strongest army in the world, and tars and feathers Tories.

2. It takes a while to get us going, but then we drop nukes on your house.

3. Believes that the best defense is 6500 nuclear weapons.

4. Strings up war criminals like big Nazi pinatas.

Read up on it for yourself.

HAHA thank you I'm well aware of the differences

did you know that liberals are on the left??? I know mindblowing

 

[Pyrite]

Post #198


`````````````````````````````````

Ah, so your point is this: other nations should not retaliate against trump's imposition of unnecessary tariffs against them, for fear of impoverishing their people and Americans.

That's nice. My point is this: we do not, we cannot, control the reactions of other countries.

Next?

dude, please attempt to actually understand what I am saying because we 100% are closer than you think we are.

Starting a global trade war is bad for the citizens of EVERY COUNTRY.
them waiting to retaliate so America can attempt to solve, does 0 harm to anyone.
So why not support internal solutions rather than reactions that cause a global trade war

Post #205


I doubt we're "close".

Of course, trade wars hurt people in various countries.

But trump has started one, and neither trump nor posters in cyberspace has the power to determine how targeted-by-trump nations are going to respond.

That you want to believe there are solutions ("internal") that will somehow stop trump's opening salvo in the trade war seems to me to be very unrealistic, for the reasons I've outlined.

I tend to go with reality - what is happening, what is possible, what most likely won't be happening. Hence my tendency not to believe in hypotheticals, especially ones that have as much chance as that snowball in hell.

We cannot control what trump has initiated. That Smoot-Hawley gave him and his advisers/handlers ample reason not to embark upon a global trade war is reality. That trump and his advisers/handlers decided to go ahead anyway is, sadly, also reality. The onus is on them.

We'll see if GOP politicians have the stomach to try to undo trump's opening salvo in a global trade war.

 

[Dark]

Or maybe they won't.

This is willful ignorance you have no reason to think that

 

[Hamish Howl]

This is willful ignorance you have no reason to think that

Shrouds don't have pockets.

 

[What if...?]

dude, please attempt to actually understand what I am saying because we 100% are closer than you think we are.

Starting a global trade war is bad for the citizens of EVERY COUNTRY.
them waiting to retaliate so America can attempt to solve, does 0 harm to anyone.
So why not support internal solutions rather than reactions that cause a global trade war

Umm, are you aware that the stock market is crashing and a recession is almost guaranteed already?

That’s WAY more than “0” harm to us here in the states already. And of course the economic harm to all those trade partners when people can’t afford to buy their products.

Harm is EVERYWHERE for EVERYBODY in this. Coming to a family near you!

Wherever you are.

You keep reiterating “Don’t struggle! You’ll make it worse!”

And I just don’t see that ever having avoided the abuse. Mitigation at best. Still might end up having a fat orange baby though when he’s done.

 

[Hamish Howl]

HAHA thank you I'm well aware of the differences

did you know that liberals are on the left??? I know mindblowing

Center left at most.

We don't stay home when a fascist is running because the other candidate isn't perfect. Stay at home progs are as bad as MAGAs from a results POV.

I find conservatives to be fairly useful people, even if I disagree with them. Among other things, they are a good counterbalance. They are my opponents.

The populist right and the far left are my enemies.

There is a very real difference.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Umm, are you aware that the stock market is crashing and a recession is almost guaranteed already?

That’s WAY more than “0” harm to us here in the states already. And of course the economic harm to all those trade partners when people can’t afford to buy their products.

Harm is EVERYWHERE for EVERYBODY in this. Coming to a family near you!

Wherever you are.

You keep reiterating “Don’t struggle! You’ll make it worse!”

And I just don’t see that ever having avoided the abuse. Mitigation at best. Still might end up having a fat orange baby though when he’s done.

All of the above.

 

[What if...?]

L

HAHA thank you I'm well aware of the differences

did you know that liberals are on the left??? I know mindblowing

thats just because most of the assholes are on the right.

 

[Dark]

Post #205


I doubt we're "close".

Of course, trade wars hurt people in various countries.

But trump has started one, and neither trump nor posters in cyberspace have the power to determine how targeted-by-trump nations are going to respond.

That you want to believe there are solutions ("internal") that will somehow stop trump's opening salvo in the trade war seems to me to be very unrealistic, for the reasons I've outlined.

I tend to go with reality - what is happening, what is possible, what most likely won't be happening. Hence my tendency not to believe in hypotheticals, especially ones that have as much chance as that snowball in hell.

We cannot control what trump has initiated. That Smoot-Hawley gave him and his advisers/handlers ample reason not to embark upon a global trade war is reality. That trump and his advisers/handlers decided to go ahead anyway is, sadly, also reality. The onus is on them.

We'll see if GOP politicians have the stomach to try to undo trump's opening salvo in a global trade war.

1. While Trump’s tariffs are a fait accompli, the checks and balances have worked before. For example, bipartisan pushback forced Trump to exempt allies from steel tariffs in 2018, proving internal pressure can temper outcomes.

2. You’re right that individuals can’t control foreign responses, but coordinated domestic dissent, via voting, lobbying, or litigation, can raise the political cost of tariffs. Farmers, manufacturers, and retailers harmed by trade wars have swayed policymakers before (e.g., agricultural bailouts in 2019).

3. Even if tariffs persist, efforts to soften their impact (state subsidies, supply-chain diversification) are not hypothetical fantasies, they’re active strategies businesses and states already employ. Dismissing these as “unrealistic” ignores adaptive resilience in capitalism and governance.

There's a chance in my mind it gets solved internally and I'll be holding out hope the American people can get their shit together and fix this shit before innocent people get hurt. Fun Debate!

 

[What if...?]

Center left at most.

We don't stay home when a fascist is running because the other candidate isn't perfect. Stay at home progs are as bad as MAGAs from a results POV.

I find conservatives to be fairly useful people, even if I disagree with them. Among other things, they are a good counterbalance. They are my opponents.

The populist right and the far left are my enemies.

There is a very real difference.

I’m actually fairly conservative myself philosophically.

But it’s old white hat movie cowboy conservatism. Hand ups not hand outs. The strong should protect the weak. Do the right thing even when it sucks.

But nowadays conservatives are the black hats running the sheep farmers off their land for the cattle barons.

So I cannot throw in with them.

 

[Hamish Howl]

1. While Trump’s tariffs are a fait accompli, the checks and balances have worked before. For example, bipartisan pushback forced Trump to exempt allies from steel tariffs in 2018, proving internal pressure can temper outcomes.

2. You’re right that individuals can’t control foreign responses, but coordinated domestic dissent, via voting, lobbying, or litigation, can raise the political cost of tariffs. Farmers, manufacturers, and retailers harmed by trade wars have swayed policymakers before (e.g., agricultural bailouts in 2019).

3. Even if tariffs persist, efforts to soften their impact (state subsidies, supply-chain diversification) are not hypothetical fantasies, they’re active strategies businesses and states already employ. Dismissing these as “unrealistic” ignores adaptive resilience in capitalism and governance.

There's a chance in my mind it gets solved internally and I'll be holding out hope the American people can get their shit together and fix this shit before innocent people get hurt. Fun Debate!

Well, then, parting note:

Part of what's driving this is that just about the entire world has had it with MAGA's bullshit.

Sometimes you just gotta fight it out.