​ISIS Is Not Waging a War Against Western Civilization

[iguanaman]

Lack of ability to comprehend the English language AND hateful intent it is, then.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Call it what you want. I was not the one who showed "hateful intent" towards a religion with billions of peaceful followers though. Do I need to quote what you said because you forgot?

 

[Jack Hays]

Call it what you want. I was not the one who showed "hateful intent" towards a religion with billions of peaceful followers though. Do I need to quote what you said because you forgot?

Certainly not all (or even many) Muslims are international religious terrorists, but all international religious terrorists are Muslims.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Certainly not all (or even many) Muslims are international religious terrorists, but all international religious terrorists are Muslims.

"So help me God"

 

[SMTA]

From the OP: The obvious answer is that the Islamic State fights those who block its path to power, whether they are liberal democracies or not.

This of course begs the question: path to power for what end? The answer is in Bernard Lewis's seminal essay, "The Roots of Muslim Rage," already posted in this thread. That answer is that ISIS seeks the destruction of all in the House of Unbelief, be they Sunnis, Shiites, Christians, Buddhists, atheists, etc. They are not fools, so it's reasonable that they would prioritize attacks on those with whom they are actively in combat over those not yet involved. But they intend to get to everyone as the opportunities arise. In the days of the Strategic Air Command (SAC) there was a joke that for SAC the world was neatly divided in two categories: SAC bases and targets. That's the view of ISIS: ISIS members and enemies.

The irony is, though, they have abandoned the basic tenants of their religion and become heinously violent psychos driven by their own perversions and earthly abuses.

They are a perfect example of 'power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely'.

At this point, the only way to win is to kill them all.

 

[Jack Hays]

The irony is, though, they have abandoned the basic tenants of their religion and become heinously violent psychos driven by their own perversions and earthly abuses.

They are a perfect example of 'power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely'.

At this point, the only way to win is to kill them all.

You may be right.

 

[SMTA]

You may be right.

Yup - damn near sounded poetic, eh? :mrgreen:

 

[TheDemSocialist]

It begs the question. Why is it that a country at best has 6 fighter jets in this war, historically even before thier involvment had the most home grown islamic terrorists?

Interesting question, and many people have looked at this and drawn conclusions

If its not about religious and cultural differences why attack mali?

Did ISIS do the Mali attack? Last I checked it was Al-Qaeda. And also Mali has been in a state of civil war for years now, and one of those sides are Islamists like Al-Qaeda.

See you ignore parts that are inconvienent to your agenda. See if the only reason they are attacking us is because of interventionist reasons you can justify your hatred of the country that has done you so well.

What are you talking about? This thread is about reasoning for ISIS attacks and how they choose which states and reasoning behind such choosing. Not something about home grown terrorists..

However if they are also killing us because they dont like gays, premarital sex, drugs, alchohol, music, interest rates, feel women are inferior, stone rape victims, and a lack of belief in thier god, its hard for you to rationalize your justification of them?

What? Are you now saying I'm justifying their attacks?

So how do you lefties deal with this cognitive dissonense? You ignore HALF of what they are shouting at you.

Good god Rev. You just need to walk away from the keyboard now.

 

[Gardener]

Call it what you want. I was not the one who showed "hateful intent" towards a religion with billions of peaceful followers though. Do I need to quote what you said because you forgot?

Sure -- you just indicated that all Americans should be beheaded in the most gruesome means possible.

See how it turns out when I play the same stupid little game as you?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Interesting question, and many people have looked at this and drawn conclusions


Did ISIS do the Mali attack? Last I checked it was Al-Qaeda. And also Mali has been in a state of civil war for years now, and one of those sides are Islamists like Al-Qaeda.



What are you talking about? This thread is about reasoning for ISIS attacks and how they choose which states and reasoning behind such choosing. Not something about home grown terrorists..



What? Are you now saying I'm justifying their attacks?



Good god Rev. You just need to walk away from the keyboard now.

I've shown you time and time again that its both our actions in the mid east and their rejection of our cultural values. Take the imam at the largest islamic center in NJ. Who basically was calling for restrictions of speech that was "blasphemous" to allah and the profit. Or the numerous examples all over the world where the islamic community in these secular societies have called for sharia like rules within these free societies.


Its clear what they want, they are screaming it at you. And the irony of far left wing types supporting via excuse making extreme fascist, bigoted, and intolerant groups the vicitims and therefore thier actions "reasonable" or "understandable" would be laughable if it wasn't so sick.


In your world where a fake story about coffee cups has your ilk attackin christians, here you are making excuses for the killing of women and children for thier god as if the former was much worse.

 

[iguanaman]

Sure -- you just indicated that all Americans should be beheaded in the most gruesome means possible.

See how it turns out when I play the same stupid little game as you?

You said....
"What you are failing to note here is that the majority of these "peaceful" Muslims share the same objectives as Isis -- to render the world completely Islamic and following Islamic codes of law.
THe only difference is the brutality of the methods Isis employs and the degree of Isis literalism. Mohammad's very business was murder, as he invaded tribe after tribe, killed the men, raped the women and established his rule. Isis is merely doing what he did." 00

Ok explain to me how I misinterpreted what you said. Did you say all Muslims share the same objectvies as ISIS or not? ISIS wants a holy war against all non-muslims. Do all Muslims want war or not?

 

[ballantine]

I've shown you time and time again that its both our actions in the mid east and their rejection of our cultural values. Take the imam at the largest islamic center in NJ. Who basically was calling for restrictions of speech that was "blasphemous" to allah and the profit. Or the numerous examples all over the world where the islamic community in these secular societies have called for sharia like rules within these free societies.

Blasphemy is exactly like PC. Same thing. It's the fallacious appeal to authority coupled with a healthy dose of social pressure.

This stuff is completely out of hand. Once they institutionalize hate speech then they'll start recording our audio for future reference.

Half of us here on this board would be in jail.

 

[Thoreau72]

Since the "end game" for ISIS is a global war between Muslims and non-believers they are doing eveyrthing they can to stir up resentment towards Islam and "peaceful" Muslims. They are hoping for this resentment to result in oppression and hatred of all Muslims in western democracy's which they believe will radicalize their Muslim populations to join the cause. Israel already has plenty of disgruntled Muslims and therefore is not a prime target for the plot. When I hear some of the GOP candidates speak I can't help but think they are falling for the ploy hook line and sinker.

Thanks for a straight answer.

I can't help but think that most of us are falling for the ploy, hook, line and sinker. I cannot help but compare and contrast ISIS with the Contras or any of the other groups over the years that were "our guys" in conflicts meant to destabilize legit governments.

 

[Thoreau72]

Since the answer with the concept of the Shia/Sunni conflict at the base of ISIS motivations completely failed to register with you, I'll try another path help you out.

Analysis of the threats against Israel reveals that the Islamic State – currently far from Israel’s borders and with limited military capabilities – does not represent a direct military strategic threat at this time.​

Thanks much. I guess the problem is mine, as I don't find the substance of that link to be particularly persuasive, all things considered.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Thanks much. I guess the problem is mine, as I don't find the substance of that link to be particularly persuasive, all things considered.

So the analysis by a, the, top Israeli military strategy group which says that ISIS is too weak and too far away does not answer for you why ISIS has not militarily attacked Israel?

 

[TheDemSocialist]

I've shown you time and time again that its both our actions in the mid east and their rejection of our cultural values.

Not really. What you have shown, is asking a bunch of questions as a rebuttal. Example of this is when you asked, "well what about Belgium?", you seemed to be asking as if you thought Belgium is not involved in the coalition bombing ISIS. Well they are bombing ISIS, so that essentially is more evidence to the premise of the article (which I agree with), that ISIS attacks countries/powers that are attacking them and attempting to block their path to power.

Take the imam at the largest islamic center in NJ. Who basically was calling for restrictions of speech that was "blasphemous" to allah and the profit. Or the numerous examples all over the world where the islamic community in these secular societies have called for sharia like rules within these free societies.

This is about ISIS. Not about some lone radical imam.

Also its important to note a distinction between rhetoric and actions. Empty rhetoric is empty rhetoric, actions are actions. If the rhetoric is not backed up by actions then its essentially a useless example to just point out rhetoric.

Its clear what they want, they are screaming it at you.

Rhetoric not backed up by actions is useless.

And the irony of far left wing types supporting via excuse making extreme fascist, bigoted, and intolerant groups the vicitims and therefore thier actions "reasonable" or "understandable" would be laughable if it wasn't so sick.

What?

In your world where a fake story about coffee cups has your ilk attackin christians,

English please...

here you are making excuses for the killing of women and children for thier god as if the former was much worse.

Im making excuses? What the **** are you talking about? No where did I "excuse" these actions...

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Not really. What you have shown, is asking a bunch of questions as a rebuttal. Example of this is when you asked, "well what about Belgium?", you seemed to be asking as if you thought Belgium is not involved in the coalition bombing ISIS. Well they are bombing ISIS, so that essentially is more evidence to the premise of the article (which I agree with), that ISIS attacks countries/powers that are attacking them and attempting to block their path to power.


This is about ISIS. Not about some lone radical imam.

Also its important to note a distinction between rhetoric and actions. Empty rhetoric is empty rhetoric, actions are actions. If the rhetoric is not backed up by actions then its essentially a useless example to just point out rhetoric.



Rhetoric not backed up by actions is useless.


What?



English please...

Im making excuses? What the **** are you talking about? No where did I "excuse" these actions...

this is your typical debate style, which is not to debate at all but to ignore, obfuscate, and close your mind to anything other than your talking point.

Half of the letter to american was about how we had to "come to islam" and change our culture for them to stop attacking.

the resons the isis people gave as partial reasoning behind thier targets had to do with culture.

The examples I give BACK UP that claim that they are at war with western civilization.


You simply stick your fingers in your ear and utter "nuh uh".


You aren't listening. This homo-phobic religious islamic fascist death cult wants you dead not only because of what our governments supposedly do, but because you think gay marriage and weed are cool.

YOu wont get it.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

this is your typical debate style, which is not to debate at all but to ignore, obfuscate, and close your mind to anything other than your talking point.

Oh I find this hilarious.

Half of the letter to american was about how we had to "come to islam" and change our culture for them to stop attacking.

the resons the isis people gave as partial reasoning behind thier targets had to do with culture.

The examples I give BACK UP that claim that they are at war with western civilization.

Reasons given for the attack were literally quoted for you. The rest of the letter was disagreements about culture, what they will do if they "win".

"Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you? As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple: (1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us."

And from Paris: "
"Let France and all nations following its path know that they will continue to be at the top of the target list for the Islamic State and that the scent of death will not leave their nostrils as long as they partake in the crusader campaign, as long as they dare to curse our Prophet (blessings and peace be upon him), and as long as they boast about their war against Islam in France and their strikes against Muslims in the lands of the Caliphate with their jets, which were of no avail to them in the filthy streets and alleys of Paris. "

You simply stick your fingers in your ear and utter "nuh uh".

No I'm not. Ive addressed just about every single question you have asked, and statements you have made.

You aren't listening.

No I am. Hence why I respond to posts mostly piece by piece/point by point.

This homo-phobic religious islamic fascist death cult wants you dead

Oh boy! Should I be scured?

not only because of what our governments supposedly do, but because you think gay marriage and weed are cool.

So "cool"!

YOu wont get it.

Well all you have done is brought up some NJ imam (not ISIS), Mali (not ISIS), and then you seemed to not understand that Belgium is a part of the anti-ISIS coalition.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Oh I find this hilarious.


Reasons given for the attack were literally quoted for you. The rest of the letter was disagreements about culture, what they will do if they "win".

"Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you? As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple: (1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us."

And from Paris: "
"Let France and all nations following its path know that they will continue to be at the top of the target list for the Islamic State and that the scent of death will not leave their nostrils as long as they partake in the crusader campaign, as long as they dare to curse our Prophet (blessings and peace be upon him), and as long as they boast about their war against Islam in France and their strikes against Muslims in the lands of the Caliphate with their jets, which were of no avail to them in the filthy streets and alleys of Paris. "



No I'm not. Ive addressed just about every single question you have asked, and statements you have made.



No I am. Hence why I respond to posts mostly piece by piece/point by point.


Oh boy! Should I be scured?


So "cool"!


Well all you have done is brought up some NJ imam (not ISIS), Mali (not ISIS), and then you seemed to not understand that Belgium is a part of the anti-ISIS coalition.

Again you ignore the content and context of "Q2".



and no one suggests you live in fear, just reality. they, the entire umbrella of extremist muslims want you dead, they tell you this. it's part of who and what they are.

You make excuses for this for some strange reason. They are screaming it at you. but you go on wallowing in ignorance thinking that simply a complete and absolute withdrawal would save the world from islamic terriorism.

It's naive at best.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Again you ignore the content and context of "Q2".

:doh Again, "Q2" was disagreements about culture, what they will do if they "win". Look: "Q2)What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?"

and no one suggests you live in fear, just reality. they, the entire umbrella of extremist muslims want you dead, they tell you this. it's part of who and what they are.

Okie dokie.

You make excuses for this for some strange reason.

What are you talking about? What I'm I "excusing"?

They are screaming it at you. but you go on wallowing in ignorance thinking that simply a complete and absolute withdrawal would save the world from islamic terriorism.
It's naive at best.

Ignorance? :lamo "all you have done is brought up some NJ imam (not ISIS), Mali (not ISIS), and then you seemed to not understand that Belgium is a part of the anti-ISIS coalition."

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

:doh Again, "Q2" was disagreements about culture, what they will do if they "win". Look: "Q2)What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?"

You obviously didn't read it.

Q2)What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?


(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.

(2) The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you.

If you fail to respond to all these conditions, then prepare for fight with the Islamic Nation. The Nation of Monotheism, that puts complete trust on Allah and fears none other than Him.



are you serious?

 

[Thoreau72]

So the analysis by a, the, top Israeli military strategy group which says that ISIS is too weak and too far away does not answer for you why ISIS has not militarily attacked Israel?

Too weak and too far away? Good Grief, we were just informed last week by our media that ISIS was going to strike NYC and Washington over the weekend.

I have as much trust in what an Israeli strategy group might say as I have in what a Pentagon strategy group might say, which is -0-

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Too weak and too far away? Good Grief, we were just informed last week by our media that ISIS was going to strike NYC and Washington over the weekend.

I have as much trust in what an Israeli strategy group might say as I have in what a Pentagon strategy group might say, which is -0-

Clearly my comments are about strategic/military actions by ISIL. I could sworn this fourm is the military forum.

 

[Thoreau72]

Clearly my comments are about strategic/military actions by ISIL. I could sworn this fourm is the military forum.

Clearly sir, your comments are simply a regurgitation of official Pentagon and media talking points. So far, I'm not impressed by any original thinking on your part. Or rather, impressed in all the wrong ways. :2wave:

 

[Gardener]

You obviously didn't read it.

Q2)What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?


(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.

(2) The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies, immorality and debauchery that has spread among you.

If you fail to respond to all these conditions, then prepare for fight with the Islamic Nation. The Nation of Monotheism, that puts complete trust on Allah and fears none other than Him.



are you serious?

I wouldn't conclude that he didn't read it, necessarily. One possibility is that he simply lacks the natural ability necessary to understand it. Another is that he is being intentionally dishonest.

Now, it is certainly obvious to any intelligent, rational person that this Da'wah assails us both for who we are as well as what we do. Whenever an agenda is concerned, however, the more narrow the agenda, the less the focus on truth.

 

[rhinefire]

View the film "The Third Jihad"