Why do conversations about trans people turn into discussions of kids genitals? (Almost always boys genitals) (1 Viewer)

[Scatty Kitty]

My penis doesn't make me male. I have a penis because I'm male. I'm also way taller than the vast majority of women. Wider shoulders, more narrow hips. There's a lot more than just genitalia that indicates sex. There's a lot more than clothing to.

That's why even five year olds can determine with pretty good accuracy which people are men and which ones are women.


Well eventually yeah. Training boys how to be men and girls how to be women includes attaching the opposite sex. Wearing appreciate clothes for your sex it's more important for boys than it is for girls is part of that.

For whatever reason society treats boys and girls differently so it isn't really about knowing what genitals they have but his they are socialized.

Good question.

So to paraphrase when cisgender people talk about children's genitals they're talking about how to socialize them based on their genitals?

 

[Lisa]

So to paraphrase when cisgender people talk about children's genitals they're talking about how to socialize them based on their genitals?

The idea that children are socialized based on their genitals is very creepy.

BTW, @CLAX1911 who forgot to teach you to attract females based on your male sex? Or is is different for you?

Well eventually yeah. Training boys how to be men and girls how to be women includes attaching the opposite sex. Wearing appreciate clothes for your sex it's more important for boys than it is for girls is part of that.

 

[CLAX1911]

So to paraphrase when cisgender people talk about children's genitals

When do you hear people talk about their kids genitals?

Is this something that happens or are you just imagining it?

 

[CLAX1911]

The idea that children are socialized based on their genitals is very creepy.

They are socialized based on sex. You think sex is just genitals which I find creepy

BTW, @CLAX1911 who forgot to teach you to attract females based on your male sex? Or is is different for you?

Nobody. I was taught just not interested. It wasn't different.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Except it's not sex organs persay but just the genitals. This is what I mean. It's cis people talking about baby's genitals like they're the only sex organs they use to determine gender. And even then that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about a baby's genitals. I'm talking about a 5,6,7,8 etc year old's genitals being openly discussed by cisgender adults. I'm pretty intuned with trans people and their discussions on gender. I can't recall a time when they bring up kids genitals. But cisgender discussions on gender? Pretty much all the time.

I have a cat that thinks he's a dog, we call him catdog. They made a show about him. My friend is thinking about sewing some limbs from an apple tree onto his body and identifying as an apple tree. Just because a person has some idea of being some previously unknown species, gender or whatever it doesn't pass the biology test. Men, women.
When biologists speak of sex being “binary,” we mean something very straightforward. There exist only two sexes, which are fundamentally rooted in the binary classification between sperm and ova. Males have the function of producing small gametes (sperm), and females large gametes (ova).

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Full disclosure this is a serious thread and a serious issue. I'm not pointing fingers in anyone's directions but it's something that dawned on me the other day.

In one of my classes we were discussing using people's pronouns and gender identity. This went on for about 45 minutes until someone brought up young boys genitals as a reason they shouldn't be allowed near girls if parents aren't around. The class then proceed to spend the next hour or so on this discussion. This discussion was had by a classroom of 95% cis-people and 5% trans. For those curious, I don't talk about trans issues in front of cis people because I've had a supervisor at my work openly talk about he is a "biological male" because he has a penis (in front of children no less). It dawned on me that this isn't the first time that I've seen this. For years this has been a reoccurring issue. It seems whenever discussions about trans people pop up, people inevitably start discussing kids' genitals like they deserve to know what they are. mean here is Mike Huckabee talking about how he would do very bad things to girls as a teenage boy:

10:30


While I'm sure there are trans people who talk about kids genitals, at least in my personal experience it always starts with cis people talking about kids and their genitals. Does anyone else see this happening?

So it appears you are stereotyping people unlike you. Do not be surprised by listeners stereotyping you.

Labeling people in a way they do not want to be labeled will always cause problems. The world after all does not revolve around your opinions alone. Dude told you what he believes about his own gender. You seem to have a problem with that.

Plus the people in your class are not representative of what you call "cis". I have doubts about your story given the sheer amount of times I have heard this line before of argument before. It seems rather self centered argumentatively. It is designed to put the "students" opinions onto all so called "cis" people. It encourages them to defend a strawman argument.

In the end your argument is merely divisive. You are asking strangers to defend or behaviour based on presumed genders.

Meanwhile, someone who says "biological male" is what you call "cis". Yet you seem offended or something about using biological male rather than cis. To be clear with the definition of cisgender you are asserting that a person identifies as their biological sex.

And I will add that the word gender has no use anymore; it is meaningless. People are talking past each other over the fact that an argument was designed to fool people. To older people gender and sex in this subject were interchangeable and meant the exact something. It meant penis or vagina. It did not mean how a person identified themself. Inny or outty.

The activists are overly exploiting the confusion. As you will by the assumptions that you are about to type about me.

 

[PoliticalDJ101]

Full disclosure this is a serious thread and a serious issue. I'm not pointing fingers in anyone's directions but it's something that dawned on me the other day.

In one of my classes we were discussing using people's pronouns and gender identity. This went on for about 45 minutes until someone brought up young boys genitals as a reason they shouldn't be allowed near girls if parents aren't around. The class then proceed to spend the next hour or so on this discussion. This discussion was had by a classroom of 95% cis-people and 5% trans. For those curious, I don't talk about trans issues in front of cis people because I've had a supervisor at my work openly talk about he is a "biological male" because he has a penis (in front of children no less). It dawned on me that this isn't the first time that I've seen this. For years this has been a reoccurring issue. It seems whenever discussions about trans people pop up, people inevitably start discussing kids' genitals like they deserve to know what they are. mean here is Mike Huckabee talking about how he would do very bad things to girls as a teenage boy:

10:30


While I'm sure there are trans people who talk about kids genitals, at least in my personal experience it always starts with cis people talking about kids and their genitals. Does anyone else see this happening?

I haven't heard a lot of people talking about children's genitals in these conversations. Usually it's just genitals in general that is referenced.

Interestingly, I did hear a child ask a transgender person whether they had a penis or a vagina once though. The child was innocent and curious and couldn't tell due to the person's external presentation. It just points out the silliness of all of this. The child was confused about the person's request for the child to refer to them as "they/them". The child just wanted to know the person's biological sex, not their gender. Even children intuitively understand the importance of knowing biological sex and the silliness of calling yourself something different than your biological sex.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

I haven't heard a lot of people talking about children's genitals in these conversations. Usually it's just genitals in general that is referenced.

Interestingly, I did hear a child ask a transgender person whether they had a penis or a vagina once though. The child was innocent and curious and couldn't tell due to the person's external presentation. It just points out the silliness of all of this. The child was confused about the person's request for the child to refer to them as "they/them". The child just wanted to know the person's biological sex, not their gender. Even children intuitively understand the importance of knowing biological sex and the silliness of calling yourself something different than your biological sex.

Except it's not intuitive. We know that children don't have a solid grasp on gender until they're about 6 or so. I'm more curious did the child actually use the words "penis and vagina"?

And anyways I've already posted someone who randomly brought up kids and their genitals in a thread. Post 114.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

So it appears you are stereotyping people unlike you. Do not be surprised by listeners stereotyping you.

Labeling people in a way they do not want to be labeled will always cause problems. The world after all does not revolve around your opinions alone. Dude told you what he believes about his own gender. You seem to have a problem with that.

Plus the people in your class are not representative of what you call "cis". I have doubts about your story given the sheer amount of times I have heard this line before of argument before. It seems rather self centered argumentatively. It is designed to put the "students" opinions onto all so called "cis" people. It encourages them to defend a strawman argument.

In the end your argument is merely divisive. You are asking strangers to defend or behaviour based on presumed genders.

Meanwhile, someone who says "biological male" is what you call "cis". Yet you seem offended or something about using biological male rather than cis. To be clear with the definition of cisgender you are asserting that a person identifies as their biological sex.

And I will add that the word gender has no use anymore; it is meaningless. People are talking past each other over the fact that an argument was designed to fool people. To older people gender and sex in this subject were interchangeable and meant the exact something. It meant penis or vagina. It did not mean how a person identified themself. Inny or outty.

The activists are overly exploiting the confusion. As you will by the assumptions that you are about to type about me.

I've already posted someone doing exactly what I'm talking about in this thread. Randomly and without any reason for it just randomly started talking about kids and their genitals. Post 114.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

I have a cat that thinks he's a dog, we call him catdog. They made a show about him. My friend is thinking about sewing some limbs from an apple tree onto his body and identifying as an apple tree. Just because a person has some idea of being some previously unknown species, gender or whatever it doesn't pass the biology test. Men, women.
When biologists speak of sex being “binary,” we mean something very straightforward. There exist only two sexes, which are fundamentally rooted in the binary classification between sperm and ova. Males have the function of producing small gametes (sperm), and females large gametes (ova).

I've met biologists. I worked with a biology teachers. They don't think sex is binary. But anyways that's besides the point. I'm talking about why do cisgender people feel the need to talk about kids genitals when it's not warranted.

 

[Manc Skipper]

It's because they're setting up kids for quite a disappointing life.

Sex a big part of relationships in a relationships are big part of life and if you're completely ostracized from those because you had a thought when you were a kid and people overreacted then it's kind of messed up.

I'm not watching John Oliver pontificate about this that guy's a ****ing idiot.

Just when you could have educated yourself.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

When do you hear people talk about their kids genitals?

Is this something that happens or are you just imagining it?

Your posts:

It's because they're setting up kids for quite a disappointing life.

Sex a big part of relationships in a relationships are big part of life and if you're completely ostracized from those because you had a thought when you were a kid and people overreacted then it's kind of messed up.

I'm not watching John Oliver pontificate about this that guy's a ****ing idiot.

All of the above.

Why is it okay to do this to kids?

My penis doesn't make me male. I have a penis because I'm male. I'm also way taller than the vast majority of women. Wider shoulders, more narrow hips. There's a lot more than just genitalia that indicates sex. There's a lot more than clothing to.

That's why even five year olds can determine with pretty good accuracy which people are men and which ones are women.


Well eventually yeah. Training boys how to be men and girls how to be women includes attaching the opposite sex. Wearing appreciate clothes for your sex it's more important for boys than it is for girls is part of that.

For whatever reason society treats boys and girls differently so it isn't really about knowing what genitals they have but his they are socialized.

Good question.

See OP for examples. If you don't believe me then see Post 114 for an example from DP.

 

[jpevans]

It's because they're setting up kids for quite a disappointing life.

Sex a big part of relationships in a relationships are big part of life and if you're completely ostracized from those because you had a thought when you were a kid and people overreacted then it's kind of messed up.

I'm not watching John Oliver pontificate about this that guy's a ****ing idiot.

Oliver talks too fast & has a british accent, but he's not an idiot. IMO

 

[nota bene]

Except it's not sex organs persay but just the genitals. This is what I mean. It's cis people talking about baby's genitals like they're the only sex organs they use to determine gender. And even then that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about a baby's genitals. I'm talking about a 5,6,7,8 etc year old's genitals being openly discussed by cisgender adults. I'm pretty intuned with trans people and their discussions on gender. I can't recall a time when they bring up kids genitals. But cisgender discussions on gender? Pretty much all the time.

I don't know how people can discuss transsexuality without eventually discussing genitals. I don't think, generally, that when most people are talking about "sex" or "gender identity" that they instantly think, oh, "ovaries." Rather, my guess is that their first thoughts are of what visually identify a boy or a girl. Any parent of a baby, whether cis or otherwise, is going to think this because they change diapers.

And talking about genitals isn't wrong either; it's just weird in ordinary conversations. People don't gather for lunch and say, "Let's talk about babies' genitals!" There is context, though. How can this topic not come up in a discussion of transsexuality when surgical alteration is possible? And what does being cis have to do with it anyway? If you're trying to make the claim that cis people are somehow fixated on transsexual kids' genitals, is it reasonable to guess that they're thinking of the consequences of amputation?

And you surely aren't claiming that those who aren't cis don't talk about the same things, particularly when the conversation is about children. I wonder if my great-niece, now 14 and presenting as male for two years now, is going through an exploratory phase? If he isn't, what's he going to do if he's inherited the big boobs that pop up occasionally in the family? Will he remove them?

And what's wrong with discussing this? My answer: Nothing, whether you're gay or straight or however you identify.

 

[Scatty Kitty]

I don't know how people can discuss transsexuality without eventually discussing genitals. I don't think, generally, that when most people are talking about "sex" or "gender identity" that they instantly think, oh, "ovaries." Rather, my guess is that their first thoughts are of what visually identify a boy or a girl. Any parent of a baby, whether cis or otherwise, is going to think this because they change diapers.

And talking about genitals isn't wrong either; it's just weird in ordinary conversations. People don't gather for lunch and say, "Let's talk about babies' genitals!" There is context, though. How can this topic not come up in a discussion of transsexuality when surgical alteration is possible? And what does being cis have to do with it anyway? If you're trying to make the claim that cis people are somehow fixated on transsexual kids' genitals, is it reasonable to guess that they're thinking of the consequences of amputation?

And you surely aren't claiming that those who aren't cis don't talk about the same things, particularly when the conversation is about children. I wonder if my great-niece, now 14 and presenting as male for two years now, is going through an exploratory phase? If he isn't, what's he going to do if he's inherited the big boobs that pop up occasionally in the family? Will he remove them?

And what's wrong with discussing this? My answer: Nothing, whether you're gay or straight or however you identify.

I'm not talking about genitals persay but specifically children's genitals. I agree that in discussions about trans people genitals will for some reason come up. But what confuses me is why do cisgender people always seem to bring up children's genitals. All of a sudden, no reason for it. They'll just bring it up. See post 114 as an example of what I'm talking about. Like they're not discussing children and then will all of a sudden bring up children. And from my discussions of gender with trans and cis people they are radically different. Trans people for example talk about understanding gender moreso than sex, whereas cis people tend to hyperfocus on sex rather than gender.

 

[nota bene]

I'm not talking about genitals persay but specifically children's genitals. I agree that in discussions about trans people genitals will for some reason come up. But what confuses me is why do cisgender people always seem to bring up children's genitals. All of a sudden, no reason for it. They'll just bring it up. See post 114 as an example of what I'm talking about. Like they're not discussing children and then will all of a sudden bring up children. And from my discussions of gender with trans and cis people they are radically different. Trans people for example talk about understanding gender moreso than sex, whereas cis people tend to hyperfocus on sex rather than gender.

I'd need to understand the context in which cisgender people always seem to bring up children's genitals? I am not aware of this; ordinary conversations at work or at home (at the grocery store or even on message boards) aren't generally occasions to be discussing anybody's genitals. So does this topic come up within a larger discussion of transsexuality? Or just randomly?

 

[Scatty Kitty]

I'd need to understand the context in which cisgender people always seem to bring up children's genitals? I am not aware of this; ordinary conversations at work or at home (at the grocery store or even on message boards) aren't generally occasions to be discussing anybody's genitals. So does this topic come up within a larger discussion of transsexuality? Or just randomly?

Are you asking for something specific that triggered it or just the surrounding context?

 

[nota bene]

Are you asking for something specific that triggered it or just the surrounding context?

I want to know where you were and what you were generally doing and talking about when the topic came up. At work? At the grocery store? At lunch with friends? Did someone apropos of nothing just suddenly bring up kids' genitals?

 

[Scatty Kitty]

I want to know where you were and what you were generally doing and talking about when the topic came up. At work? At the grocery store? At lunch with friends? Did someone apropos of nothing just suddenly bring up kids' genitals?

The time from my OP was just a discussion of trans people. Specifically whether or not using someone's pronouns was etiquette or a moral imperative.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

I've already posted someone doing exactly what I'm talking about in this thread. Randomly and without any reason for it just randomly started talking about kids and their genitals. Post 114.

Why not simply shut them down with a good argument? Trying to disingenuously make them sound like pedos doesn't do your argument any justice. It just looks like you are deflecting and taking the argument to the person.

Meanwhile: A big part of being trans involves possibly surgery (depending on individual choice). What do you suppose they do surgery on? How are you going to talk about reassignment or hormone therapy san's genitals? If it isn't about genitals largely, why all the need for hiding and suppressing what you were born with? Be honest genitals are part of the conversation.
If you did not have the wrong genitals, you would not be trans. If you refuse to mention that reality then no one will hear your plight.

But then you led with stereotyping people that you disagree with. I get that the far right are a bunch of assholes, and say insanely stupid shit. They are a loud minority. Most people are pretty chill about trans. Because we respect other peoples decisions (unlike them). I really do not care what adults do to their bodies.

Kids though cannot make a choice about something that has not even developed yet. In all cases of trans medical procedures involving kids, it was the adults who made the decision; not the kids. In every situation except this one ethics dictates that minors brains have not developed enough to consent. The burden of consent for medical procedures is on their parents or guardians. That is the elephant in the room and the reason that many see an agenda.

 

[DCCougar]

There exist only two sexes....

I have to wonder why this matter is so concerning to Republicans when the percentage of people over the age of 13 who identify as trans is less than one half of one percent. And it is just Republicans who express such concern, right? They've made it another one of their big "social issues." Now they want the government to control such matters (not to mention abortion)? What happened to Republicans' hallowed values of "individual freedom" and "limited government"?

 

[Lisa]

They are socialized based on sex. You think sex is just genitals which I find creepy

Nobody. I was taught just not interested. It wasn't different.

If someone needs tio be trained to be a boy or a girl that is a very clear sing that there are deepens problems that are not addressed. Those should come natural.

When you say sex are you referring to biologi9cal characteristics of the body, or the act of reproduction?

Sex is far more than genitals and I have never once said otherwise.

 

[Phys251]

Full disclosure this is a serious thread and a serious issue. I'm not pointing fingers in anyone's directions but it's something that dawned on me the other day.

In one of my classes we were discussing using people's pronouns and gender identity. This went on for about 45 minutes until someone brought up young boys genitals as a reason they shouldn't be allowed near girls if parents aren't around. The class then proceed to spend the next hour or so on this discussion. This discussion was had by a classroom of 95% cis-people and 5% trans. For those curious, I don't talk about trans issues in front of cis people because I've had a supervisor at my work openly talk about he is a "biological male" because he has a penis (in front of children no less). It dawned on me that this isn't the first time that I've seen this. For years this has been a reoccurring issue. It seems whenever discussions about trans people pop up, people inevitably start discussing kids' genitals like they deserve to know what they are. mean here is Mike Huckabee talking about how he would do very bad things to girls as a teenage boy:

10:30


While I'm sure there are trans people who talk about kids genitals, at least in my personal experience it always starts with cis people talking about kids and their genitals. Does anyone else see this happening?

Excellent OP.

The transphobes are obsessed with people's genitals, including children's genitals. They want to regulate and control these genitalia. Yes, that's as creepy as it sounds. Whatever happened to PRIVATE parts?

 

[nota bene]

The time from my OP was just a discussion of trans people. Specifically whether or not using someone's pronouns was etiquette or a moral imperative.

Well, that makes sense to me. What would most people think of if asked to define "he." You can't tell me that most people won't instantly think of genitals.

By the way, I don't wish to enter into the discussion about pronouns.

 

[Fearandloathing]

Full disclosure this is a serious thread and a serious issue. I'm not pointing fingers in anyone's directions but it's something that dawned on me the other day.

In one of my classes we were discussing using people's pronouns and gender identity. This went on for about 45 minutes until someone brought up young boys genitals as a reason they shouldn't be allowed near girls if parents aren't around. The class then proceed to spend the next hour or so on this discussion. This discussion was had by a classroom of 95% cis-people and 5% trans. For those curious, I don't talk about trans issues in front of cis people because I've had a supervisor at my work openly talk about he is a "biological male" because he has a penis (in front of children no less). It dawned on me that this isn't the first time that I've seen this. For years this has been a reoccurring issue. It seems whenever discussions about trans people pop up, people inevitably start discussing kids' genitals like they deserve to know what they are. mean here is Mike Huckabee talking about how he would do very bad things to girls as a teenage boy:

10:30


While I'm sure there are trans people who talk about kids genitals, at least in my personal experience it always starts with cis people talking about kids and their genitals. Does anyone else see this happening?

"It's none of your ****ing business!"

ABOUT ****ING TIME!!!!