Zeitgeist The Movie

[Spartacus FPV]

Zeitgeist The Movie

[GVIDEO]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331&hl=en[/GVIDEO]

Approx 2 HRS, a documentary on the relationship between the Judeo-Christian religions and ancient religions like Mithras, the egyptian god Horus, Astrology, etc... Very interesting, although one section gets a little conspiracy theorist-ish, enjoy.

 

[Edify_Always_In_All_Ways]

These videos are always fun, but- wow is this long. And my speakers are shot. Could you maybe summarize some of the better points? Pretty please?

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Well its in 3 sections really, the first is a history of religion, the second is a bit of 9/11 conspiracy, and the third is a bit on the federal reserve.

 

[GarzaUK]

Wow nicely done. I myself didn't know there was so many similar god stories to Jesus, I did know about Horus though.

It would make sense that Judaism was influenced by Eygptian religion, since spending time as slaves there (maybe not, who knows what it is truth in the bible).

 

[GarzaUK]

Man I just watched part 3 of that movie, slightly disturbed by it all to say the least. :shock:
Every religious person on this forum should watch part 1 with an open mind IMO.

Hey Lachean any chance of me downloading this movie on some site?? I want to show this to my dad, he's flirting with atheism himself.

 

[Edify_Always_In_All_Ways]

Well its in 3 sections really, the first is a history of religion, the second is a bit of 9/11 conspiracy, and the third is a bit on the federal reserve.

Oh boy.

I notice Jerry, Felicity and Doughgirl are all absent... maybe watching repeatedly?:mrgreen:

Oh well, here's a bump for ya.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Hey Lachean any chance of me downloading this movie on some site?? I want to show this to my dad, he's flirting with atheism himself.

Wouldn't know how, might wanna check the Bit Torrent sites for it.

 

[Gibberish]

Hey Lachean any chance of me downloading this movie on some site?? I want to show this to my dad, he's flirting with atheism himself.

I believe if you view the video on it's actual Google Video page there is a download option?

This is a very interesting video. I knew about all the other religious similarities but I have never pieced together the astrological connections and the theory of the basis of religion describing the struggle of actual night and day.

 

[laska]

Since the Biblical religion began with the parents of the modern human race, and the religion could have been looking forward to the birth of Christ as the messiah for the world, the sacarafice of the first born male lamb without blemish as a sin offering pointing to the mission of Christ, you would expect other religions to have Judea/Christian elements, as it would be the mother religion.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Since the Biblical religion began with the parents of the modern human race

We haven't evolved much in hundreds of thousands of years.

and the religion could have been looking forward to the birth of Christ as the messiah for the world

What religion? Judaism? Christianity certainly didn't predate Christ.

the sacarafice of the first born male lamb without blemish as a sin offering pointing to the mission of Christ, you would expect other religions to have Judea/Christian elements, as it would be the mother religion.

You have your time lines backwards, most of the mentioned religions predate Christianity. Horus certainly does.

 

[laska]

We haven't evolved much in hundreds of thousands of years.

There are some big differences between the people that start appearing six thousand years ago and earlier human like creatures. Much higher state of civilization, written record and geneologies, cities, etc.

What religion? Judaism? Christianity certainly didn't predate Christ.


The way I see it is that the New Testament does not claim Christianity to be a new religion, but that Jesus was the future Messiah that ancient Judaism was centered around and looking forward to. If true, then the Judaism of the Hebrew patriarchs and the Christianity of the apostles are the same religion, one is just pre-messiah and the other post messiah. This religion goes all the way back to Adam according to the Biblical text.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

We haven't evolved much in hundreds of thousands of years.

There are some big differences between the people that start appearing six thousand years ago and earlier human like creatures. Much higher state of civilization, written record and geneologies, cities, etc.

What religion? Judaism? Christianity certainly didn't predate Christ.


The way I see it is that the New Testament does not claim Christianity to be a new religion, but that Jesus was the future Messiah that ancient Judaism was centered around and looking forward to. If true, then the Judaism of the Hebrew patriarchs and the Christianity of the apostles are the same religion, one is just pre-messiah and the other post messiah. This religion goes all the way back to Adam according to the Biblical text.

And there is any reason to consider this a credible historical fact? Do you not see the circular logic in play here?

 

[Gibberish]

This religion goes all the way back to Adam according to the Biblical text.

This is the whole point of the movie. That the biblical stories are nothing more then the renditions of previously stories told and retold through out history. As all the stories share the exact same main elements the evidence for the stories being rewrites is strong. They are only true according to themselves.

It can be seen that the stories, as all stories do, evolved and changed over thousands of years to help acceptance within the specific society. It so happens that Christianity itself was created when society was at the brink of globalization. Christianity held true to western society because of the changes made to incorporate the paganism which was western society of the time.

If this is indeed all true then to find out the truth about Christ I think the big question would be, Was Christianity, at its root, an interpretation of previous religions or did the early Christian councils take the true story of Christ and incorporate these older stories to help the global acceptance of Christianity?

 

[laska]

The LDS believe the gospel of Christ is an eternal gospel, that it existed in the pre-mortal existence before the foundations of the world, and that the first parents had a high knowledge of the mission and life of Christ. That there is elements of Judeo/Christian religion such as virgin birth, etc in later religions would be expected from our perspective. Also, it is my belief the scriptures is God's hand in history for the purpose of creating literature to teach future generations. I am of the opinion He uses extensive allusion. Take for example the story of Moses. Awhile back, someone mentioned in another thread that the name of Moses was used in earlier stories as heroes who saves their people. To them this means the Hebrew Moses is obviously borrowed account and not real history. There is evidence though that Mosiah was a historical epithet. It was a title given to great leaders who delivered their people from bondage. To me, Moses was one of the great and noble spirits in the pre-mortal world. He was ordained before his birth for his mission on earth. God inspired his mother to name him Moses.



By the way, the Book of Mormon uses extensive allusion quite a bit in the text. The following link is to an article where a LDS writer gives a critique of Harold Bloom's writings on Mormonism. The latter half of the article gives an excellent example of its use in the BOM. Reduction and Enlargement: Harold Bloom's Mormons - FARMS Review

 

[Gibberish]

The LDS believe the gospel of Christ is an eternal gospel, that it existed in the pre-mortal existence before the foundations of the world, and that the first parents had a high knowledge of the mission and life of Christ. That there is elements of Judeo/Christian religion such as virgin birth, etc in later religions would be expected from our perspective. Also, it is my belief the scriptures is God's hand in history for the purpose of creating literature to teach future generations. I am of the opinion He uses extensive allusion. Take for example the story of Moses. Awhile back, someone mentioned in another thread that the name of Moses was used in earlier stories as heroes who saves their people. To them this means the Hebrew Moses is obviously borrowed account and not real history. There is evidence though that Mosiah was a historical epithet. It was a title given to great leaders who delivered their people from bondage. To me, Moses was one of the great and noble spirits in the pre-mortal world. He was ordained before his birth for his mission on earth. God inspired his mother to name him Moses.

I believe if I wish for a million dollars it will suddenly appear. Believing doesn't make it true.

By the way, the Book of Mormon uses extensive allusion quite a bit in the text. The following link is to an article where a LDS writer gives a critique of Harold Bloom's writings on Mormonism. The latter half of the article gives an excellent example of its use in the BOM. Reduction and Enlargement: Harold Bloom's Mormons - FARMS Review

Don't get me started on LDS. The whole basis of the religion is suspect and, to me, no more valid then Scientology.

 

[laska]

I have the same thought on your opinions. For me belief is not blind like you arrogantly assume. I trust in prayer and God's spirit to reveal truth, this to me is ultimate evidence, to you its silliness probably. Too bad.

 

[laska]

If some of you guys weren't so arrogant and rude, I could have given an interesting and strong response here. I haven't touched the surface yet. Its too hard for me to write to debate with ugly american types. So man, I'm outta here. Hold the applause please!

 

[Gibberish]

I have the same thought on your opinions. For me belief is not blind like you arrogantly assume. I trust in prayer and God's spirit to reveal truth, this to me is ultimate evidence, to you its silliness probably. Too bad.

Don't mistake difference of opinions for arrogance. I never said faith was blind and do not think it is. I have faith in things greater then myself. I don't know what you believe is wrong or right anymore then what I believe. That fact is none of us know the true nature of "God" or it's plan and to think you do is true arrogance.

 

[Gibberish]

If some of you guys weren't so arrogant and rude, I could have given an interesting and strong response here. I haven't touched the surface yet. Its too hard for me to write to debate with ugly american types. So man, I'm outta here. Hold the applause please!

Some friendly advice, don't take differing opinions as arrogance or personal attacks. You won't last long in a real debate if you take everything so personal.

 

[laska]

I have no problem with differing opinions, I wouldn't have lasted about two years on this site if I did. I enjoy people bringing it strong. I give you, Lachean, Cephus, and thelost1 props for taking the time to read and respond to many of my posts but I am not the first poster that has mentioned the arrogance of you guys. Two of my best friends in the world are atheists and I've had a lot of fun debates with them, but they have a level of respect for my opinions to not just equate them with belief in the easter bunny. I don't belittle their beliefs or act smug like so many theists do around atheists and vice versa. It is my experience I cannot debate with those two types, smug atheists and theists.

 

[Gibberish]

I have no problem with differing opinions, I wouldn't have lasted about two years on this site if I did. I enjoy people bringing it strong. I give you, Lachean, Cephus, and thelost1 props for taking the time to read and respond to many of my posts but I am not the first poster that has mentioned the arrogance of you guys. Two of my best friends in the world are atheists and I've had a lot of fun debates with them, but they have a level of respect for my opinions to not just equate them with belief in the easter bunny. I don't belittle their beliefs or act smug like so many theists do around atheists and vice versa. It is my experience I cannot debate with those two types, smug atheists and theists.

First off I am a deist not an atheist. Second I have debated with many theists who have more substance in their arguments then merely what their specific doctrine preaches and if you don't you better be damn good at expressing the validity of your doctrine.

Why exactly is it ok for you to not believe what an atheists believe but as soon as someone doesn't believe in what what you believe it's arrogance?

 

[laska]

Do you really take from what I have written that I believe anyone who doesn't believe as I do is arrogant? That is certainly not what I meant. Its the sarcasm in the responses, using language such as believing in the easter bunny, etc.

 

[laska]

I have debated with many theists who have more substance in their arguments then merely what their specific doctrine preaches and if you don't you better be damn good at expressing the validity of your doctrine.


This is a valid criticism. I just try and add something to the site besides dreaming of Tashah.

 

[Thelost1]

Do you really take from what I have written that I believe anyone who doesn't believe as I do is arrogant? That is certainly not what I meant. Its the sarcasm in the responses, using language such as believing in the easter bunny, etc.

That Easter Bunny bit is Reductio ad absurdum, which is a valid argument.

So, not sarcastic.

 

[GarzaUK]

Since the Biblical religion began with the parents of the modern human race, and the religion could have been looking forward to the birth of Christ as the messiah for the world, the sacarafice of the first born male lamb without blemish as a sin offering pointing to the mission of Christ, you would expect other religions to have Judea/Christian elements, as it would be the mother religion.

Hmmm, the Torah (Genesis etc) as far as we know was written in 1500BC (at the oldest estimation). The myth of Horus was written in 3000BC.