You existed when you were conceived

[PragmaticOne]

The first stage of your life was as an embryo. You existed as an embryo "from fertilization to the beginning of the third month of pregnancy." An abortion would have put an end to your existence.

You are able to read this because your mother did not kill you after you were conceived. If your mother had an abortion after you were conceived, she would have killed YOU.

If you disagree, then you are saying that YOU were not conceived and YOU did not exist when your mother was pregnant. Perhaps you think your mother was pregnant with someone else who later morphed into you. It is a simple fact that women bear children, and an abortion kills a child.

You existed when your mother became pregnant with YOU. Born is the past participle of bear. You were BORN by your mother for nine months, from the moment of conception to the moment she gave birth.

The American people must first understand that an abortion brings an end to a human life. Only then can they decide when it should be legal.

 

[Napoleon]

There is no “you” at conception. That is a scientific fact.

 

[PragmaticOne]

There is no “you” at conception. That is a scientific fact.

Are you saying that you were never conceived and that you were never an embryo?

 

[Napoleon]

Are you saying that you were never conceived and that you were never an embryo?

I’m pointing out that a zygote is not “you” - which is just an abstract concept to describe the human mind. Something a single-cell organism does not possess.

 

[Amelia]

What rights to all those embryos in cold storage have?


If you are the sperm donor to a frozen embryo, when you die should your born children have to split their inheritance with the frozen embryos?

 

[late]

Are you saying that you were never conceived and that you were never an embryo?

An embryo is not a person.

The rather unappealing reality here is that such distinctions are not based in science. When we convey personhood is a legal matter that reflects how much we respect the rights of the individual. If we respect the rights of women, giving the government undue control over her body, and her future, is not tolerable.

The real problem you have here is that these determinations are arbitrary.

You could just as easily say that children don't have rights until they are adults, and then only if they are male. That's what we used to do...

Your other problem is that law is secular, and you are trying to sneak Christian Sharia in. That is what we super sophisticates call a no no...

 

[iguanaman]

The first stage of your life was as an embryo. You existed as an embryo "from fertilization to the beginning of the third month of pregnancy." An abortion would have put an end to your existence.

You are able to read this because your mother did not kill you after you were conceived. If your mother had an abortion after you were conceived, she would have killed YOU.

If you disagree, then you are saying that YOU were not conceived and YOU did not exist when your mother was pregnant. Perhaps you think your mother was pregnant with someone else who later morphed into you. It is a simple fact that women bear children, and an abortion kills a child.

You existed when your mother became pregnant with YOU. Born is the past participle of bear. You were BORN by your mother for nine months, from the moment of conception to the moment she gave birth.

The American people must first understand that an abortion brings an end to a human life. Only then can they decide when it should be legal.

I think therefore I am. Humans are unique and special among other mammals only because of their magnificent brains . Therefore humans become humans at birth and even that is stretching a bit.. Let's be pragmatic about it. Our embryos are similar to every other mammal. They are not so special and every sperm is not sacred either.

 

[Napoleon]

I think therefore I am. Humans are unique and special only because of their magnificent brains . Therefore humans become humans at birth. Let's be pragmatic about it. Our embryos are similar to every other mammal they are not so special.

Not unique but certainly special in the hubris that we are.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Ever heard of the saying 'I THINK, therefore I AM?" That is an example of how humans consider sentience to be the determiner of humanity, and a life worthy of human rights.

Your argument is that simple existence, that "life" equates to humanity. That is essentially what the initial fertilization and subsequent cellular development within the womb is.

IMO this argument fails on several levels.

First, if life itself is so precious, why do we feed off of the lives of everything else around us? We justify the killing and eating of just about everything because it is not "Human," i.e. it is not "sentient" enough to rate being treated as human. If this, then what makes a mindless developing zygote, or embryo so special?

Second, we don't seem to have much trouble justifying the deaths of other fully born Humans, for all sorts of reasons; even while recognizing their "sentience." Some common reasons? Self-defense, defense of others, to punish for harms/crimes, in war, out of greed, hatred, and fear. What makes a developing zygote or embryo more special than a fully-formed, independently existing human being?

Third, human life? Every human body is made up of "human" cells, each of which contains the entire blueprint of another human being. That they are actively able to replicate and self-repair. We have also learned that once we achieve the technology we can "clone" human cells and create a whole new human being out of them. Yet we don't seem to be too concerned about the minor loss of a few here and there in the normal course of life's little accidents. What makes a developing zygote or embryo more human than such cells?

Meanwhile, there is that little reality in the form of natural miscarriage due to the in-viability of a significant number of fertilized eggs as they develop in the womb. Do you weep for the "lost soul" that you may not even have known was developing before it self-destructed?

There is no one arguing that human cells don't indicate human life...otherwise we would call them something other than "human" cells.

However, the difference between skin cells, liver cells, and a fertilized and developing egg is merely their potential for becoming a fully formed and sentient Human Being.

Until any of them do demonstrate such sentience, then by our own standards determining which lifeforms have "human rights" and which are just disposable resources, it does not matter what the "first stages" were...only what the LAST stage is.

 

[iguanaman]

Are you saying that you were never conceived and that you were never an embryo?

Not that I remember... I did not exist then. I was nothing but a twinkle in my mom's eye. You are no different.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

The first stage of your life was as an embryo. You existed as an embryo "from fertilization to the beginning of the third month of pregnancy." An abortion would have put an end to your existence.

You are able to read this because your mother did not kill you after you were conceived. If your mother had an abortion after you were conceived, she would have killed YOU.

If you disagree, then you are saying that YOU were not conceived and YOU did not exist when your mother was pregnant. Perhaps you think your mother was pregnant with someone else who later morphed into you. It is a simple fact that women bear children, and an abortion kills a child.

You existed when your mother became pregnant with YOU. Born is the past participle of bear. You were BORN by your mother for nine months, from the moment of conception to the moment she gave birth.

The American people must first understand that an abortion brings an end to a human life. Only then can they decide when it should be legal.

Where do the zygote and fetus fit in, according to your biology class?

What happened in the case of identical twins? Which one "existed at conception"? Is the other one ever ensouled?

 

[iguanaman]

Not unique but certainly special in the hubris that we are.

The POTENTIAL to become human is not the same as being one was my point.

 

[PragmaticOne]

I’m pointing out that a zygote is not “you” - which is just an abstract concept to describe the human mind. Something a single-cell organism does not possess.

Having a problem answering a simple "yes or no" question? Was your mother pregnant with you after you were conceived? Yes or no?

 

[vegas giants]

Having a problem answering a simple "yes or no" question? Was your mother pregnant with you after you were conceived? Yes or no?

Yep. And then she can kill you dead if she wants to (up to viability). Perfectly fine with me

 

[MrWonka]

If you disagree, then you are saying that YOU were not conceived and YOU did not exist when your mother was pregnant.

The statement goes, "I think therefore I am."

Tell me something. These aborted fetuses that you seem to think are alive... Do they go to heaven, hell, purgatory? Do they even know where they are? Do they know what they are? Are they capable of interacting with everyone else that ends up in the same place? If so, what language do they speak to each other? Who teaches them right and wrong? Are they angry at their mothers? Do you think they sit around debating whether or not they should have been aborted? Can they see what's happening here on earth? Can they know how they would have reacted if put into the same situation as their mothers?

Do all dogs go to heaven? If they do will they get to obtain a higher level of consciousness or do they remain in the same state? What about shrimp? Is there a heaven for seafood? If so do humans still get to eat them? If they reach a higher state of being will they be mad at us for eating them or is their heaven totally different than ours?

Why does being human make you unkillable? We kill pigs simply because we're hungry and they taste good. A lot of people eat pigs but think it's immoral to eat dogs or dolphins. Why would that be? What makes the life of one sanctimonious and the other not.

Is it possible that there is something beyond your particular combination of chromosomes and level of development that makes your life worth retaining?

The American people must first understand that an abortion brings an end to a human life. Only then can they decide when it should be legal.

No, actually they don't. There are all kinds of situations where bringing an end to a fully fledged human life is perfectly legal. You can shoot someone for stepping on your land for example. That's considered a legal defense of private property. Obviously, if you can kill someone for stepping on your land then you can certainly kill them for trying to inhabit your body for 9 months.

 

[PragmaticOne]

Yep. And then she can kill you dead if she wants to (up to viability). Perfectly fine with me

The question was: "Was your mother pregnant with you after you were conceived?"

Your answer should have read "Yep. And she could have killed me dead if she had wanted to (up to viability). Perfectly fine with me."

 

[vegas giants]

The question was: "Was your mother pregnant with you after you were conceived?"

Your answer should have read "Yep. And then she could have killed me dead if she had wanted to (up to viability). Perfectly fine with me."

Yeah that works for me. Perfectly fine with me

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

I’m pointing out that a zygote is not “you” - which is just an abstract concept to describe the human mind. Something a single-cell organism does not possess.

I'm curious to know what the ''you'' is it your human mind that contains memories or what do you think?

 

[PragmaticOne]

There are all kinds of situations where bringing an end to a fully fledged human life is perfectly legal. You can shoot someone for stepping on your land for example. That's considered a legal defense of private property. Obviously, if you can kill someone for stepping on your land then you can certainly kill them for trying to inhabit your body for 9 months.

Oh, good. We are making progress. You are acknowledging that an abortion kills the child that the woman is bearing. I hope everyone comes to understand that simple fact.

 

[calamity]

The first stage of your life was as an embryo. You existed as an embryo "from fertilization to the beginning of the third month of pregnancy." An abortion would have put an end to your existence.

You are able to read this because your mother did not kill you after you were conceived. If your mother had an abortion after you were conceived, she would have killed YOU.

If you disagree, then you are saying that YOU were not conceived and YOU did not exist when your mother was pregnant. Perhaps you think your mother was pregnant with someone else who later morphed into you. It is a simple fact that women bear children, and an abortion kills a child.

You existed when your mother became pregnant with YOU. Born is the past participle of bear. You were BORN by your mother for nine months, from the moment of conception to the moment she gave birth.

The American people must first understand that an abortion brings an end to a human life. Only then can they decide when it should be legal.

Uh, no.

 

[PragmaticOne]

The question was: "Was your mother pregnant with you after you were conceived?"

Your answer should have read "Yep. And then she could have killed me dead if she had wanted to (up to viability). Perfectly fine with me."

Yeah that works for me. Perfectly fine with me

As I said to MrWonka, we are making progress. You are acknowledging that an abortion kills the child that the woman is bearing. I hope everyone comes to understand that simple fact.

 

[vegas giants]

As I said to MrWonka, we are making progress. You are acknowledging that an abortion kills the child that the woman is bearing. I hope everyone comes to understand that simple fact.

It better kill that beautiful little child......or get your money back

 

[kitsune]

So an acorn falls on to my garden walkway. You step on it and crush it. I should view this no differently than I would your chopping down my oak tree.

 

[year2late]

The question was: "Was your mother pregnant with you after you were conceived?"

Your answer should have read "Yep. And she could have killed me dead if she had wanted to (up to viability). Perfectly fine with me."

Actually that may not be that simple.

Conception is accepted as when the sperm enters the egg.


Pregnancy begins at time of implantation which may be days away from conception.

 

[Removable Mind]

As I said to MrWonka, we are making progress. You are acknowledging that an abortion kills the child that the woman is bearing. I hope everyone comes to understand that simple fact.

There is no child prior to an existence outside the womb. Calling a yet to be born a “child” is simply a term of endearment. It would really help if you climb out of your emotional based rant and discuss the topic within the biological framework that accurately describes the developmental stages of the yet to be born.

It’s rather naive to believe that “if everyone should really come to understand what the consequences are when an abortion is performed”, abortions would drastically reduced.

We all get it...completely.