Here's why this thread is nonsense.
Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics | Pew Research Center
Poll: Most Americans Say They're Christian - ABC News
As with all the "us poor, poor christians are under attack" threads, what's actually happening these days is some people are losing their cookies over the idea that christians can no longer make all the rules, for everyone, and expect everyone to just fall in line and obey it with blinders on.
The Horror. The Horror.
I don’t like making statements like this, but sadly I believe this is true now. And before we get into it...I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT MORAL VIEWS OR ETHICS AND I’M NOT SAYING DEMOCRATS CANNOT BE CHRISTIAN.
There. Now that’s that is out of the way. I think there has been a shift in the Democrat Party. And I think it has come even within the past 10 years or so. And it kinda disturbs me. It disturbs me because the people who should care...don’t. They don’t even see it. In fact...they are so wrapped up in their politics that they don’t even recognize that they are doing it. And the reverse is not true in this case. You will not find this sentiment in the republican camp. So what am I saying specifically?
I think that modern democrats have so aligned themselves that many democrats do not believe they can reconcile their faith with their politics. To the point that it seems many democrats feel that being a Christian automatically means you can’t be a real democrat. It even means you are a republican and hold certain views that they find repugnant. And what has this lead to? An openly hostile atmosphere FROM the left against those who have faith. And now. It isn’t “all democrats,” but I feel more open hostility and discomfort if I’m in an open discussion and I mention I’m a Christian. You would think the party of “tolerance” would understand how wrong this is, but it seems to have gone over their head. Completely. You even have some who openly insult people just for having faith.
I personally think this has to do with the LGBT movement of course. That is a given. And many democrats failed to see that this divide...was even in churches. It didn’t just stop at the door. Personally? I’m ok with gay marriage. And gays. I don’t care. Doesn’t bother me. But because there was opposition and the right took up the stance and then the democrats hijacked the movement (once the objective was completed) and now we have the left attacking their enemy the “Christian right.” And it isn’t just about gay marriage now. Does anyone else feel the left has become openly hostile towards Christians (and to some extent Jews or other religions)? If not openly hostile...would you be willing to see more intolerant? That the Democrat Party has decided their views cannot coexist with a “good Christian” or a “good Jew” or a “good Muslim?”
I don’t like making statements like this, but sadly I believe this is true now. And before we get into it...I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT MORAL VIEWS OR ETHICS AND I’M NOT SAYING DEMOCRATS CANNOT BE CHRISTIAN.
There. Now that’s that is out of the way. I think there has been a shift in the Democrat Party. And I think it has come even within the past 10 years or so. And it kinda disturbs me. It disturbs me because the people who should care...don’t. They don’t even see it. In fact...they are so wrapped up in their politics that they don’t even recognize that they are doing it. And the reverse is not true in this case. You will not find this sentiment in the republican camp. So what am I saying specifically?
I think that modern democrats have so aligned themselves that many democrats do not believe they can reconcile their faith with their politics. To the point that it seems many democrats feel that being a Christian automatically means you can’t be a real democrat. It even means you are a republican and hold certain views that they find repugnant. And what has this lead to? An openly hostile atmosphere FROM the left against those who have faith. And now. It isn’t “all democrats,” but I feel more open hostility and discomfort if I’m in an open discussion and I mention I’m a Christian. You would think the party of “tolerance” would understand how wrong this is, but it seems to have gone over their head. Completely. You even have some who openly insult people just for having faith.
I personally think this has to do with the LGBT movement of course. That is a given. And many democrats failed to see that this divide...was even in churches. It didn’t just stop at the door. Personally? I’m ok with gay marriage. And gays. I don’t care. Doesn’t bother me. But because there was opposition and the right took up the stance and then the democrats hijacked the movement (once the objective was completed) and now we have the left attacking their enemy the “Christian right.” And it isn’t just about gay marriage now. Does anyone else feel the left has become openly hostile towards Christians (and to some extent Jews or other religions)? If not openly hostile...would you be willing to see more intolerant? That the Democrat Party has decided their views cannot coexist with a “good Christian” or a “good Jew” or a “good Muslim?”
" During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution...In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the Civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny: in no instance have they been seen the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty, may have found an established Clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just Government instituted to secure & perpetuate it needs them not."
-James Madison
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
-Thomas Paine
Wow. That is a profoundly ignorant and ill-informed post. There are innumerable democrats and leftists of faith.
And 'democrat party'? Never heard of it. But if you mean the 'Democratic Party', then perhaps you'd be intersted in speaking with a one Barak Obama and, no, the party has not decided what you're claiming it's decided.
Could you be any more transparent?
What's a problem is not Christianity, but using your religion to advance a political agenda. And more and more, that's what many people who call themselves "Christians" in this country are tending to do. And that's where the hostility comes. In that sense, it's not just modern Democrats who have a problem with Christianity. That hostility has been there since the founding of this country:
If Roy Moore wins in Alabama today, this will have just blown up in your face.
And then I will tart a poll to see if the other forum members agree that you should change your forum name to Jokey Smurf.
Sort of wrong. But sort of right. You are correct. You don’t need to be anti gay to be a Christian (I’m not). And that is something I don’t think many democrats recognize. And in fact...I might argue they even feel that being Christians means you HAVE to be anti gay and that there is no other options. And I think it is if not directly...then still certainly partially...the fault of republicans for politicizing gay marriage.
You keep stating your defence against accusations of generalisation but you continue to generalise, talking about what “the left”, “the right”, Christians, Democrats or the Democrat Party do. I’m sure it’s not intentional, it’s sadly become the standard language of modern politics but that’s all the more reason to work against it.I completely agree about broad labeling. And that is what I’m addressing I suppose. And I will stipulate again...I don’t think democrats can’t be Christian. I feel that there are more “broad labeling” democrats that feel Christianity is...or someone’s faith...should come second to their politics.
If Christianity wants to change how they are perceived by the public, that's up to them. They are the ones trying to have it both ways.
The Democrats aren't in charge of properly interpreting Christianity any more than the Republicans set Christian policy.
I don’t like making statements like this, but sadly I believe this is true now. And before we get into it...I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT MORAL VIEWS OR ETHICS AND I’M NOT SAYING DEMOCRATS CANNOT BE CHRISTIAN.
There. Now that’s that is out of the way. I think there has been a shift in the Democrat Party. And I think it has come even within the past 10 years or so. And it kinda disturbs me. It disturbs me because the people who should care...don’t. They don’t even see it. In fact...they are so wrapped up in their politics that they don’t even recognize that they are doing it. And the reverse is not true in this case. You will not find this sentiment in the republican camp. So what am I saying specifically?
I think that modern democrats have so aligned themselves that many democrats do not believe they can reconcile their faith with their politics. To the point that it seems many democrats feel that being a Christian automatically means you can’t be a real democrat. It even means you are a republican and hold certain views that they find repugnant. And what has this lead to? An openly hostile atmosphere FROM the left against those who have faith. And now. It isn’t “all democrats,” but I feel more open hostility and discomfort if I’m in an open discussion and I mention I’m a Christian. You would think the party of “tolerance” would understand how wrong this is, but it seems to have gone over their head. Completely. You even have some who openly insult people just for having faith.
I personally think this has to do with the LGBT movement of course. That is a given. And many democrats failed to see that this divide...was even in churches. It didn’t just stop at the door. Personally? I’m ok with gay marriage. And gays. I don’t care. Doesn’t bother me. But because there was opposition and the right took up the stance and then the democrats hijacked the movement (once the objective was completed) and now we have the left attacking their enemy the “Christian right.” And it isn’t just about gay marriage now. Does anyone else feel the left has become openly hostile towards Christians (and to some extent Jews or other religions)? If not openly hostile...would you be willing to see more intolerant? That the Democrat Party has decided their views cannot coexist with a “good Christian” or a “good Jew” or a “good Muslim?”
I’m really not talking about aggressive atheists. I actually had a long talk with my girlfriend last night about it too (she is a democrat). She even sees it. There is almost a sneering and a looking down the nose if someone says they are a Christian. I’m very surprised that you don’t see it. And it isn’t just “evangelicals.” I get it all the time. And I am PC USA. Which allows gay marriage and memebership. But people still don’t try and distinguish. They assume that a Christian must be the anti gay marriage and gay bashing type.
Typo?
No....
OK. There's plenty of Roman Catholic Dems though. Millions actually. So I don't know where you are going with your statement.
This is the mentality to which I refer.
Are you aware that “Christianity” encompasses hundreds of denominations and not all hold that anti gay view?
That is point. It isn’t the job of democrats. I would argue that that is exactly what is being done. Not all Christians hold the same views.
Then the question is, can you be a Democratic and disagree with some of their most pushed agendas? Such as abortion, gay rights, etc.
So while I doubt you will find a Roman Catholic Democrat,
I think the problem is what you might consider a 'Christian' to be. What I mean is there are different beliefs in different denominations of Christianity. Roman Catholic, Protestant, Lutheran, Methodist and Evangelist. I know I'm forgetting some, but you get the point. The word Christian is the overall 'name'.
So while I doubt you will find a Roman Catholic Democrat, you will in some of the other denominations.
Then the question is, can you be a Democratic and disagree with some of their most pushed agendas? Such as abortion, gay rights, etc.
One well-known example of someone who is a practicing Catholic and very "progressive" is Martin Sheen. I generally disagree with his political views, but I have always admired his earnest effort to live out his faith.
Actually my reply to you was asking why you said this:
Which is NOT true...
Anyway as for your current question, I don't see why not.. 98% of so Roman Catholic women practice birth control, even though The Church preaches against using BC. Same with being a Dem. I was a Republican for 30+ years, I'm an Indy now but now mostly vote Dem. But I don't agree with all of the Dems issues.
Lets face it, a LARGE percentage of Republicans care much more about social issues like gay marriage than they do fiscal issues(a past stalwart of the GOP)
You can come back and say abortion is a religious issue, but then you'd have to explain why for many in the GOP are for the death penalty, torture, and our military running around to globe bombing and killing at will.
There's plenty of hypocrisy on both sides. But, IMO, when it comes to religion and politics, Conservatives are more hypocritical.
I think most normal people have no problem doing that because what a persons person believes are do not have to be their political believes. I cant speak for everybody but I find it VERY easy to separate any religious beliefs from political beliefs because they are in fact separate. IMO a person who cant separate them probably has serious problems with this country and also should never run for office.
But pointing that out gets into a whole other problem. The people that want to push their feelings on others. There are plenty of things im sure i could come up with that personally im against but would NEVER support in politics because they go against the freedom and rights of this country.
IMO only nutters have problems separating the two or people that dont care about the country/freedom and rights.
I’m really not talking about aggressive atheists. I actually had a long talk with my girlfriend last night about it too (she is a democrat). She even sees it. There is almost a sneering and a looking down the nose if someone says they are a Christian. I’m very surprised that you don’t see it. And it isn’t just “evangelicals.” I get it all the time. And I am PC USA. Which allows gay marriage and memebership. But people still don’t try and distinguish. They assume that a Christian must be the anti gay marriage and gay bashing type.
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