Would you oppose secession for ANY reason?

Paschendale said:

I don't see a possible scenario where secession won't lead to war. Our nation is interdependent and connected, and if part of that whole were to suddenly disappear from the greater machine, it will create economic disaster. We will either fight to keep ourselves one nation, or fight over the resources that are suddenly held by a neighboring nation that is, by its very design, hostile to our interests. If you want to destroy this country, embroiling it in a second civil war would be the quickest way to do it.

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The North should have let the South secede as long as it gave up claims to West. To compensate for that, it would have been allowed to colonize northern Mexico and the Caribbean islands.

Intricate said:

NDAA 2012 Sec. 1021 and 1022, allowing indefinite detention of American citizens. Violation the fourth, fifth, and sixth amendment.
USA Patriot Act, allowing warrant-less searches and seizures, violation of the fourth amendment.

That's just two examples, there are many more. Our rights are not optional, able to be tossed aside for political convenience. The government recognizes and secures our rights, it doesn't issue and revoke them. All such violations of our rights are unacceptable and we need to hold the government accountable.

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When the Constitution says, "We, the people," which people is it referring to? Since it was cooked up behind closed doors, literally excluding the people, it must have meant "We, the oligarchic clique of wannabe aristocrats." How can you defend a document that is so weak that it allows those few it empowers to violate it, according to your interpretation of it? Who made you the Supreme Court, which an even more exclusive and totalitarian clique?

Guess what? The Founding Daddies would have kept you out of the Constitutional Convention too, so you're only complaining about something whose powers of exclusion you support. How does that make you feel, or do you like getting bossed around as long as everybody else has to submit to this republican oligarchy too?

prometheusbound said:

when the constitution says, "we, the people," which people is it referring to? Since it was cooked up behind closed doors, literally excluding the people, it must have meant "we, the oligarchic clique of wannabe aristocrats." how can you defend a document that is so weak that it allows those few it empowers to violate it, according to your interpretation of it? Who made you the supreme court, which an even more exclusive and totalitarian clique?

Guess what? The founding daddies would have kept you out of the constitutional convention too, so you're only complaining about something whose powers of exclusion you support. How does that make you feel, or do you like getting bossed around as long as everybody else has to submit to this republican oligarchy too?

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wtf???

Glowpun said:

So who are these people who talk about secession?

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Good question!

Texas Nationalist Movement

Or if you want a list of all of the traitors that want to take over the US or at least portions of it then here you go: Seditionist and Sovereignty Movements in the USA

The only time i can see secession as acceptable is if the federal government declares martial law in the US or picks and chooses which states to declare martial law in.

Intricate said:

I think the principle of succession is good, it keeps an extra check on the federal government and allows states a way to defend themselves against corruption. At this point the federal government has consistently violated so many civil liberties as to render itself illegitimate. It may be to the point that only a mass movement of the states can reduce and reform the corrupted federal government.

Right now, in my opinion, we need to promote and defend states rights and the principles of federalism against the rising trend of authoritarianism in government.

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I agree completely! Something has to keep this monstrosity of a national government we have in check (one that I feel is very unconstitutional), and secession is a good way to keep the bureaucrats in DC in check. However, I doubt there are many federal judges out there that would validate the right to secede.

I must admit, my history of secession in the US and whether or not states have a constitutional right to do so is limited. A simple search on Google and wikipedia shows me that in the legal/constitutional realm, this issue is very divided. But it seems that in the court of popular opinion most do not support the right of secession. It does say something of the political winds, though, when all 50 states have had secession petitions filed.

The United States would be better if Texas secceded and took a handful of Southern States with it.

As a political statement its more than acceptable. It is warranted now more than ever! We need less main stream conformity and more errant individualism in our politics our government is to powerful. Enough of showing up and going along with the politically correct two partiers in order to show support for the same tired and dangerous policys that keep us stuck.

jacobchillerman said:

Almost every right we have has been violated. I'll list a few.

4th Amendment: TSA was founded.

1st Amendment: Your not allowed to peacefully assemble anymore(remember Occupy?). Oh and you can't protest
anywhere there might be a secret service agent(which is almost, EVERYWHERE).

2nd Amendment: They are already trying to work on banning guns.

That enough for ya?

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TSA = transportation safety , I guess.
Are we saying that the safety of people is not important...thats its OK for one to go off willie-nillie, the people be damned ?
Rather selfish, I'd say !
Or, when a problem exists, do nothing , and the problem will go away ???

Peacefully assemble ?
There would be no problem if the people would not abuse this...Like all of the rights, they must be limited.
I do not want you "peacefully assembling in my back yard....I''ll be the so-called secret agent...lol...

I'd prefer to see the guns banned, with so many murderous nuts roaming about...
Try to think of the other man, our population is NOT one......
And, it is NOT a civil liberty if you step on my toes !
Its the people who abuse these "rights", NOT the government.

blaxshep said:

Start with the Patriot Act and Defense Autherization. Do you seriously believe that suspension of Habeas Corpus is not a violation of your civil liberty?

Maybe we should lock you up for a while without even charging you with a crime, a lawyer or even a phone call to give you some time to rethink your position.

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I'll not deny that our government tents to get "carried away", its a human trait.
The thing is, are these law abiding American Citizens, or are they aliens ? They may say that they are innocent.....criminals do the same.....
I question the support that these people get ??

Intricate said:

NDAA 2012 Sec. 1021 and 1022, allowing indefinite detention of American citizens. Violation the fourth, fifth, and sixth amendment.
USA Patriot Act, allowing warrant-less searches and seizures, violation of the fourth amendment.

That's just two examples, there are many more. Our rights are not optional, able to be tossed aside for political convenience. The government recognizes and secures our rights, it doesn't issue and revoke them. All such violations of our rights are unacceptable and we need to hold the government accountable.

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The Patriot Act was triggered by an act of war (9-11), an Islamist terrorist attack,...You want our government to do nothing ?????
Its not "political convenience", its the protection of our people !
During war time, rights must be compromised.
But, I do think we got "carried away"....

earthworm said:

The Patriot Act was triggered by an act of war (9-11), an Islamist terrorist attack,...You want our government to do nothing ?????
Its not "political convenience", its the protection of our people !
During war time, rights must be compromised.
But, I do think we got "carried away"....

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And what rights must be compromised?

I think there have always been and always will be legitimate reasons to secede, but "OMG OUR GUY LOST!!!" is not one of them.

If Texas decided to secede, every Texan would have to make a difficult decision between becoming a soldier or becoming a refugee.

I think that secession should be the right of any serious territory/body of people, but making silly drama on behalf of their very rich masters is a game for illiterate peasants. I understand that parts of Texas are pretty backward, but are they really as backward as that?

Nobody should try to stop any state who wants to secede. This country was founded on a violent revolution, which means we aren't afraid to fight for what we want. Just make sure that you really want what you are getting.

If a state secedes, they lose the backing of the military, in all cases. If war comes to US soil, the states who seceded will be fighting the same war, without the immense power of our military (and also without our immense weapons ). Don't think for a minute that Iraq, or North Korea or anyone else who wants us all dead in a fiery mushroom cloud is going to give one damn about state lines.

If they lose the military, they also lose the National Guard, who is there to help in many instances like flooding, forest fires and the like. They also lose the financial backing of the National Guard.

If they are border states, they will have to have their own Border Patrol. Good luck building that fence now.

Passports will have to be surrendered.

Funding for highways, bridges, madical facilities, transportation, infrastructure and education will cease immediately.

Don't think your Congressman will be able to help, because he will be asked to leave Washington.

The FAA will no longer be available to you, so until you develop your own air traffic control system, no flights in or out of your state will allowed.

The FCC will no longer be available to you, so you are now responsible for licensing your own radio and TV stations, as well as telephone and internet.

Anyone receiving Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, VA disability or SSDI will have to reapply. Congress will then have to decide whether or not to allow this aid to be made available to foreigners from the US government.

The Coast Guard will no longer be available to you if you are a coastal state, so you are responsible for monitoring your own illegal drug smuggling and foreign invaders.

*******

I wish I could take credit for this list, but cannot. It does, however, make you look at secession differently. Did me, anyway.

wolfman24 said:

the problem would be the obvious one. Who gets what? The Jesus map is a farce of some demented Limbaugh fan.

Each group would have to have access to the Atlantic and Pacific, the Mississippi, deep water ports, the food belt and industry.

How would the people be moved who wanted to leave. Be compensated for thier loss of job, business or property? Would busineses corporations and industry just suddenly pack up and move?

How would the military be divided? How would short range and medium range nukes be handled. Treaty. What if one group said no?

Government files, agencies, international organizations, companies, infrastructure?

If you think its as easy as drawing a line in the sand think real hard and then think again.

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The Nukes belong to the Enlightened States of America. That's where they are now, and that's where they should stay. Really - you'd trust these demented Far Right Extremists with nuclear weapons?

Penderyn said:

I think that secession should be the right of any serious territory/body of people, but making silly drama on behalf of their very rich masters is a game for illiterate peasants. I understand that parts of Texas are pretty backward, but are they really as backward as that?

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Yes, but its not just Texas.

wolfman24 said:

I must have struck a nerve or something. I have never gotten this many likes on a post since I've been here.

Actually. I spend some of my time writing 'stories" about things I am interested in so I can see how they work out in my mind. I wrote one about this subject but I don't share it with people because its very primitive.

The complications of this subject are just staggering. Back in CW days with only 40 million people this was a very doable thing. Today with 300+ not even in your dreams.

If Texas is the main force behind this then let them go back to Mexico and se how they like it there compared to here. All talk no brains.

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Actually, I prefer the phrase 'all hat and no cattle'.

Talk of secession is is stupid, pointless. This country has been there. Done that. 1,000,000 dead.

It could be acceptable under extreme circumstances, but I am firmly against any state doing it in this day and age. People who are for it simply don't understand what that would do...you think it is bad now? Try letting your broke state be its own country.

disneydude said:

The United States would be better if Texas secceded and took a handful of Southern States with it.

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We wouldn't have won any of our wars without them. Our enemies would love to have to face only multicultie girlymen. The blue states are yellow.

I voted it could be acceptable, only because the question is so open ended. Yes, there are circumstances where the split up of the United States would be acceptable. None of those scenarios exist today, nor do I see any of those scenarios existing in the very near future. But, yes, it is possible that it might one day be a good idea.

earthworm said:

I'd prefer to see the guns banned, with so many murderous nuts roaming about...

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population - 308,745,538 (2010 Census)
total murder victims - 12,996 (2010 FBI Uniform Crime Report)

That means in 2010 you had a 1 in 23,757 chance of being murdered, or 0.004% chance. So you had a 99.996% chance of not being murdered. Dangerous world out there, huh.

I believe that states have every right to secede. I can't say that I'm 100% sold on the idea of Texas leaving yet, but I can definitely say that our current government doesn't represent my ideals at all.