- Joined
- Jul 5, 2005
- Messages
- 8,682
- Reaction score
- 262
- Location
- Philadelphia,PA
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Slightly Conservative
Thank you, but I can't take full credit...I have this thing called "reality" on my side...Occam's Butter Knife said:Excellent post!
:applaud
The yeah yeah yeah part is exactly how I expected some to respond..."Keeping eyes closed" is a response I see from more than one member of this forum...FinnMacCool said:yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. Maybe we'll find them 5 years from now in Israel. bullshit. And then maybe you can somehow show that it was a good thing we invaded cause of that.If
Bush really believed that they actually had WMDs he would seek to remind us of that instead of banging on about freedom and liberation etc.
FinnMacCool said:Until I actually see some evidence that Saddam actually had wmds then maybe I'll believe it.
But you ignore the fact that Bush has completely changed his focus and is now going on about liberation and freedom instead of wmds.
UNSCOM was charged with making their own determinations in re what needed to be inspected.cnredd said:Do not confuse the term "inspector" with "hunter"...The UN inspection team was NOT there to look for weapons...That his one of the biggest things some people latch onto, but it is completely false...
Guess what the UN inspection team was there to do?...Any guesses???....To INSPECT!...not "look for"..not "hunt"....simply to INSPECT....
And what were they there to inspect? They were there to inspect the inventory and facilities that were ALREADY known through the 1998 team...So when they showed up and said "Where's the stuff the previous team saw?", Saddam said "Uhhhh...we don't know what you're talking about."
You have nothing of the kind. That is only your perception. What you have is "your world" reality, as opposed to "real world" reality.Originally posted by cnredd:
Thank you, but I can't take full credit...I have this thing called "reality" on my side...
cnredd said:The yeah yeah yeah part is exactly how I expected some to respond..."Keeping eyes closed" is a response I see from more than one member of this forum...
As stated, there are many possibilities..."They never had them", as some people claim, has been disproved and is not an option...The 1998 Insprection Team tagged the weapons themselves, so the question of "What happened to them" is still unanswered...That the weapons were physically there at one point cannot be refuted...
Not once on this thread did I say it was a good thing or not...
It is only to dispel the WMD fabrications & inaccuracies...
Debates are a lot easier when you have the correct information...That is all this thread is meant to provide...
If you asking me to directly find a source that used the word "tagged", I doubt I could because that is just the term used by the writer...However, if you would like proof of what WAS there and what was not, here is the ACTUAL UNSCOM REPORT...No political spin...no rhetoric...actual findings...Hoot said:I'd be interested in any proof you can provide that UN Weapons Inspectors expected "tagged" WMD's in 1998, or they themselves tagged WMD in 1998. Thank you. After all, I'm merely giving you a chance to provide "the correct information."
I believe the extensive report from both UNSCOM & the IAEA SHOULD convince you....FinnMacCool said:Ok here we go:
Scott Ritter
http://www.news.cornell.edu/Chronicle/03/4.3.03/Ritter_cover.html
Hans Blix: He actually wrote an entire book on the subject
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,895882,00.html
http://www.randomhouse.com/pantheon/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9780375423024&view=excerpt
Scott Ritter's Resignation Letter where he writes "The Special Commission was created for the purpose of disarming Iraq. As part of the Special Commission team, I have worked to achieve a simple end: the removal, destruction or rendering harmless of Iraq's proscribed weapons. The sad truth is that Iraq today is not disarmed ... UNSCOM has good reason to believe that there are significant numbers of proscribed weapons and related components and the means to manufacture such weapons unaccounted for in Iraq today ... Iraq has lied to the Special Commission and the world since day one concerning the true scope and nature of its proscribed programs and weapons systems. This lie has been perpetuated over the years through systematic acts of concealment. It was for the purpose of uncovering Iraq's mechanism of concealment, and in doing so gaining access to hidden weapons components and weapons programs, that you created a dedicated capability to investigate Iraq's concealment activities, which I have had the privilege to head."http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/1998/08/980826-ritter.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/25/sprj.nirq.kay/
This shows no possibilty of weapons in Syria now http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/25/AR2005042501554_pf.html
I know you feel like you can "open my eyes" but, despite what you might think, I don't come up with these arguments for no reason. Your going to have to do better then that I'm afraid.
FinnMacCool said:sorry I'm not. And too be quite honest, I don't think I ever will until we actually find these weapons of mass destruction.
There are so many different people saying different things that I don't suppose we'll ever know.
One does have to wonder though why Bush hasn't taken heart in the facts that you have stated and I know you will say this is off topic but I consider it very much related. The fact that Bush changed his focus from wmds to liberation means to me that he has lost hope that we will ever find those wmds. Hell even if you prove that they did exist back in 1998 and hey they might have been I'm not denying it, it doesn't make any difference because they weren't found when we went there. Our army has pretty much gave up on the search for wmds so I think if your trying to hold on wmds for a reason your mistaken. Focus on liberation from tyranny instead lol.
cnredd said:Almost 2 hours to respond to two posts...
I gotta start gettin' paid for this...:doh
Finn...I'll be honest with you...FinnMacCool said:sorry I'm not. And too be quite honest, I don't think I ever will until we actually find these weapons of mass destruction.
There are so many different people saying different things that I don't suppose we'll ever know.
One does have to wonder though why Bush hasn't taken heart in the facts that you have stated and I know you will say this is off topic but I consider it very much related. The fact that Bush changed his focus from wmds to liberation means to me that he has lost hope that we will ever find those wmds. Hell even if you prove that they did exist back in 1998 and hey they might have been I'm not denying it, it doesn't make any difference because they weren't found when we went there. Our army has pretty much gave up on the search for wmds so I think if your trying to hold on wmds for a reason your mistaken. Focus on liberation from tyranny instead lol.
Right after I finished, I realized that at the age of 35, I probably did more work in those two posts than I've ever did at any one night of High School homework.:dohGySgt said:Damn, you really do you homework. Good job. Others merely smash a few things together and paint a picture that they want to show.
cnredd said:I posted this to a response in "Bias In The Media", but it has more relevance in this forum...This is in response to all of those who happily cry "No WMDs!"
In 1998, the UN weapons inspectors found WMDs...That is fact...What does that have to do with the war?...keep reading...
The inspectors were then kicked out by Cindy Shee....whoops!...wrong thread!...I mean, "Saddam"...:2wave:
In 2002/3 the new team of weapons inspectors showed up...Before we get any further, an explanation must be made...
Do not confuse the term "inspector" with "hunter"...The UN inspection team was NOT there to look for weapons...That his one of the biggest things some people latch onto, but it is completely false...
Guess what the UN inspection team was there to do?...Any guesses???....To INSPECT!...not "look for"..not "hunt"....simply to INSPECT....
And what were they there to inspect? They were there to inspect the inventory and facilities that were ALREADY known through the 1998 team...So when they showed up and said "Where's the stuff the previous team saw?", Saddam said "Uhhhh...we don't know what you're talking about."
So the Inspection team said, "Yes you do...we have positive proof that you HAD them...what happened to them?"...Saddam's reply?..."uhhhhh...We destroyed them."
Now...as stated, the inspection team was NOT there to look for anything...they were only there to inspect...and this is VERY important...
The burden of proof was on Saddam and his regime...NOT the inspection team!
I will say it again because some of the forum members are not up to speed with this...
The burden of proof was on Saddam and his regime...NOT the inspection team!
This part is really important, so I will type slower....
The fact that they weren't found IS the problem!...The 1998 inspection team PHYSICALLY saw them...So the question is "Where are they NOW?"...The burden of proof fell on Saddam to PROVE what happened to them...NOT for the inspection teams to FIND them.
Remember...According to the 1991 cease-fire agreement with Iraq, the U.N. had agreed not to lift sanctions until Iraq's full compliance had been verified.
Anyone want to guess why the sanctions were STILL on Iraq at the time of the war?...Simple...Iraq was not in FULL COMPLIANCE. If the 2003 inspection team was allowed to continue, would "full compliance" have been met?...Nope...Saddam didn't grant them "unfettered access", which means the actual inspections would never have been complete...Just like the previous inspection team's...THAT is what Saddam was counting on...another "shell-game" that would've ended with the UN giving in...
You may want to believe otherwise, but history has shown this to be the case...The term "This time we mean it!" has been used by the UN before, and every single time Saddam laughed at them...
If the US didn't throw in the monkey wrench, the UN would've lifted sanctions WITHOUT full compliance, and this would be more proof to the world that the UN is toothless...Their resolutions are meaningless...
So the question still remains....What happened to them?...This is a question that may take years, if ever, to actually find the truth...There are many possibilities, but "He never had them" is not one of those possibilities...
Saddam's burden of proof was not met...He provided no sources for his claim that everything was destroyed...And when some people say "There were no WMDs", they are saying, "Even though Saddam didn't prove that he got rid of them...I believe him when he says that he did."
Congratulations!...I'm sure you will all make great character witnesses at his trial.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?