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So the no-bid contract opportunities for Koch Brother owned companies and massive tax breaks for large businesses need to be in place? What do you think those are costing them (or in the case of the no-bid contract, what it's going to cost them)?
Playing a game of political chicken, Democratic senators who fled Wisconsin to stymie restrictions on public-employee unions said Sunday they planned to come back from exile soon, betting that even though their return will allow the bill to pass, the curbs are so unpopular they'll taint the state's Republican governor and legislators.
Sen. Mark Miller said he and his fellow Democrats intend to let the full Senate vote on Gov. Scott Walker's "budget-repair" bill, which includes the proposed limits on public unions' collective bargaining rights. The bill, which had been blocked because the missing Democrats were needed for the Senate to have enough members present to consider the bill, is expected to pass the Republican-controlled chamber.
You seem to be missing the point. Name one company that is notably profitable (or sizeable) thats only workers are its owners. Sure, some may have started that way, but they never stayed that way.
Originally Posted by TheBook
You seem to be missing the point. Name one company that is notably profitable (or sizeable) thats only workers are its owners. Sure, some may have started that way, but they never stayed that way.
The ESOP Association | Employee ownership through employee stock ownership plansESOP Statistics
•There are approximately 11,500 ESOPs in place in the U.S., covering 10 million employees (10% of the private sector workforce).
•These employees draw in excess of 3% of their total compensation from ESOP contributions.
•The growth of ESOP formation has been influenced by federal legislation. While the rapid increase in new ESOPs in the late 1980s subsided after Congress removed certain tax incentives in 1989, the overall number has remained steady with new plans replacing terminated ESOPs. Currently, it is estimated that there are approximately 11,500 ESOPs in place in the U.S. However, there is no precise way to measure this figure accurately since the overwhelming majority of ESOP companies are privately held and do not file public reports with the SEC.
•About 330 ESOPs - 3% - are in publicly traded companies. However, these companies employ just under 50% of the nation's 10 million employee owners.
•An estimated 7,000 of the 11,500 companies have ESOPs that are large enough to be a major factor in the corporation's strategy and culture.
•Approximately 4,500 ESOP companies are majority-owned by the ESOP.
•Approximately 3,000 are 100% owned by the ESOP.
•About 2% of ESOP companies are unionized.•While ESOPs are found in all industries, over 20% of them are in the manufacturing sector.
•At least 70% of ESOP companies are or were leveraged, meaning they used borrowed funds to acquire the employer securities held by the ESOP trustee.
•An overwhelming majority of ESOP companies have other retirement and/or savings plans, such as defined benefit pension plans or 401(k) plans, to supplement their ESOP.
•Of the 11,500 employee-owned companies nationwide, fewer than 2% were financially distressed when they established their ESOP.
•Total assets owned by U.S. ESOPs is estimated to be $901 billion at the end of 2007.
so tell me j, they are willing to make concessions now to help the state, why not down the road, if the state situation is considerabley improved, why shouldn't they be able to ask for some of those concessions back???Which part don't you understand? Honest barganing? or the ability to undo what they promise today?
j-mac
There are plenty of right to work states. Instead of hollering the ole "doomsday" scenario how about you back up your assertions. Find even one such thing happening in any of the right to work states.
so tell me j, they are willing to make concessions now to help the state, why not down the road, if the state situation is considerabley improved, why shouldn't they be able to ask for some of those concessions back???
so you are saying that unions shoulder the entire blame for wisconsin's situation? what about those tax breaks for big business? the concessions the governor wants, and would get if he honestly were only interested in the budget, amount to only around 10% of the budget shortfall.....what about that other 90 or so % j? or is that the fault of the unions as well?Simple, it is those supposed concessions that have so far only been talked about, nothing has been put to paper, and in the end probably wouldn't be. It is a tactic. Secondly, it is the CB that pushed this situation to where it is today. You tell me, why should unions who give money to politicians for election be able to sit across from them to bargain their contracts? Tell me why one of the liberal, progressive heros, FDR hated PS unionization?
j-mac
This is disgusting, playing with people livelihoods for what amounts to little more than political points, the Democrats should just do the job they're paid for and stop acting like 3 year olds.
so you are saying that unions shoulder the entire blame for wisconsin's situation?
what about those tax breaks for big business?
the concessions the governor wants, and would get if he honestly were only interested in the budget, amount to only around 10% of the budget shortfall.....what about that other 90 or so % j? or is that the fault of the unions as well?
he could work to 'fix' what he percieves to be problems by sitting down at the bargaining table and negotiating....he is playing political games, and trying to union bust....No, I didn't say that did I? Let's keep it honest here shall we?
Ah yes, Big bad business....Tell me Randy, when business leaves the state looking for better states to do business in, what good do the workers for those companies think that higher taxes got them? Ask Boeing in the Seattle area....We in SC thank the state of WA for letting us have that company.
No, which is why I suspect he left in CB for wages. It is about unfunded liabilities that will bankrupt the state. Putting it off until another poison pill can be injected is insane. Fix the problem and that means you can't get back what is a problem now.
j-mac
he could work to 'fix' what he percieves to be problems by sitting down at the bargaining table and negotiating....he is playing political games, and trying to union bust....
funny how current polls show that by a magin of 2-1, his constituents think he should compromise....one term governor here we come!! no, if he were serious about fixing his budget, this would have been over before it started, as soon as the unions said they would make concessions, he should have been at the bargaining table, hammering out the terms......he is putting his anti-union agenda ahead of the will of the wisconsin electorate.Not at all. In fact he is indeed trying to fix what he perceives as broken in the system, and that is the unfunded liabilities caused by unrealistic union pensions negotiated through a dishonest process of cronyism in the past that can not continue. Unions are mad that the gravy train is ending, but end it will.
j-mac
so you are saying that unions shoulder the entire blame for wisconsin's situation? what about those tax breaks for big business? the concessions the governor wants, and would get if he honestly were only interested in the budget, amount to only around 10% of the budget shortfall.....what about that other 90 or so % j? or is that the fault of the unions as well?
funny how current polls show that by a magin of 2-1, his constituents think he should compromise....one term governor here we come!! no, if he were serious about fixing his budget, this would have been over before it started, as soon as the unions said they would make concessions, he should have been at the bargaining table, hammering out the terms......he is putting his anti-union agenda ahead of the will of the wisconsin electorate.
There are plenty of right to work states. Instead of hollering the ole "doomsday" scenario how about you back up your assertions. Find even one such thing happening in any of the right to work states.
Quite frankly should this retreat by those politicians be tolerated? I don't.
Before posting your response, consider this:
Would you allow republicans to flee the senate whenever they disagree with a democratic vote?
Its going to make a big dent in Education for the state of Wisconsin.
Frankly, I don't think Democrats could stop Republicans if they were to flee to keep from voting on a bill.
he could work to 'fix' what he percieves to be problems by sitting down at the bargaining table and negotiating....he is playing political games, and trying to union bust....
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