Why the Republicans Failed:

[liblady]

Stance sowed doubts
David Frum, a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, the conservative research organization, said Republicans had tried to defeat the bill to undermine Mr. Obama politically, but in the process had given up a chance of influencing a huge bill. Mr. Frum said his party’s stance sowed doubts with the public about its ideas and leadership credentials, and ultimately failed in a way that expanded Mr. Obama’s power.

“The political imperative crowded out the policy imperative,” Mr. Frum said. “And the Republicans have now lost both.”

I think the above is exactly right. As the rest of the analysis explains, the public will come to accept and even embrace the healthcare legislation, and the Republicans will be cast as obstructionists.

The head of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, Senator Robert Menendez of New Jersey, offered a similar argument. “When this bill goes into effect, and none of the things Republicans warned about begin to happen — none of the death panels, none of the government takeover, none of the socialism — Republicans will have no credibility,” Mr. Menendez said.

Destroying Obama was their goal, and it didn't work.

NYT: United stand on health bill may hurt GOP - The New York Times- msnbc.com

 

[Moon]

I think the analysis is a bit off. The Republicans and their Blue Dog Democrat allies were successful in getting the "public option" removed from the Senate bill, which is the version that was passed by the House. I'd say that influenced that very large bill, contrary to what Mr. Frum states.

 

[gtown25nick]

In the end, the bill that was passed was not nearly as bad as the bill that had originally passed the house. Most notably, it didn't have a public option.

Republicans believe in health care reform, simply not the health care reform proposed by the Democrats. Also, the Republicans had no power to influence the bill because the Democrats had, without republican support, secured enough votes to pass the bill.

Finally, although Obama failing would have been a nice side-effect, I do not believe that was the purpose of Republican opposition to the bill. The bill was and is incredibly flawed and the Republicans were simply doing their best to put a stop to it.

 

[disneydude]

I think the analysis is a bit off. The Republicans and their Blue Dog Democrat allies were successful in getting the "public option" removed from the Senate bill, which is the version that was passed by the House. I'd say that influenced that very large bill, contrary to what Mr. Frum states.

Yes...and instead of the public option we got the requirement that everyone buy insurance or face a fine. Wow....thanks Republicans and bluedogs...great progress there.

 

[Moon]

Yes...and instead of the public option we got the requirement that everyone buy insurance or face a fine. Wow....thanks Republicans and bluedogs...great progress there.

The fact remains that the Republicans influenced the bill, contrary to what was stated in the OP.

 

[disneydude]

In the end, the bill that was passed was not nearly as bad as the bill that had originally passed the house. Most notably, it didn't have a public option.

Republicans believe in health care reform, simply not the health care reform proposed by the Democrats. Also, the Republicans had no power to influence the bill because the Democrats had, without republican support, secured enough votes to pass the bill.

Finally, although Obama failing would have been a nice side-effect, I do not believe that was the purpose of Republican opposition to the bill. The bill was and is incredibly flawed and the Republicans were simply doing their best to put a stop to it.

Don't fool yourself. The fact that Republicans were opposed to the very things that they had previously supported should tell you clearly that their only agenda was for Obama to fail.
This was pure political grandstanding on the part of the GOP who listened too closely to the teabagger wackos and the right-wing radio fanatics rather than trying to pursue their ideals.

Obama would have preferred to pass a bi-partisan bill. Politically, it would have been much better for him, however, the Republicans couldn't stomach that and they put all their marbles in and lost big.

The Republican party blew an opportunity to influence the legislation in a way that would have interested the more moderate wing of the party. The only question is, have they learned their lesson or will be consider to see the same old party of No?

 

[liblady]

I think the analysis is a bit off. The Republicans and their Blue Dog Democrat allies were successful in getting the "public option" removed from the Senate bill, which is the version that was passed by the House. I'd say that influenced that very large bill, contrary to what Mr. Frum states.

The failure is in the fact that they will be portrayed as obstructionsists. It's a giant political failure, imo.

 

[liblady]

In the end, the bill that was passed was not nearly as bad as the bill that had originally passed the house. Most notably, it didn't have a public option.

Republicans believe in health care reform, simply not the health care reform proposed by the Democrats. Also, the Republicans had no power to influence the bill because the Democrats had, without republican support, secured enough votes to pass the bill.

Finally, although Obama failing would have been a nice side-effect, I do not believe that was the purpose of Republican opposition to the bill. The bill was and is incredibly flawed and the Republicans were simply doing their best to put a stop to it.

oh, yes it was the purpose of the opposition. remember waterloo?

 

[disneydude]

The fact remains that the Republicans influenced the bill, contrary to what was stated in the OP.

Oh...I don't disagree. However, its obvious that they influenced in a negative way and the parts of the bill that most people are complaining about are the very parts that we got as a result of the Republicans and the blue dog Democrats. Not exactly sure that is something to be proud of.

 

[Moon]

The failure is in the fact that they will be portrayed as obstructionsists. It's a giant political failure, imo.

Well, of course they will be, since they didn't jump on the FREE HEALTH CARE FOR EVERYONE!!! bandwagon. The failure is in the media and the left feigning shock and surprise when the opposition party actually opposes something the majority is trying to pass. To me, the Republicans did their job, just as the Democrats did when they were in the minority. It's not a failure, it's how the system works.

 

[liblady]

Well, of course they will be, since they didn't jump on the FREE HEALTH CARE FOR EVERYONE!!! bandwagon. The failure is in the media and the left feigning shock and surprise when the opposition party actually opposes something the majority is trying to pass. To me, the Republicans did their job, just as the Democrats did when they were in the minority. It's not a failure, it's how the system works.

no one ever suggested free healthcare for everyone. you are correct, though, no one should have been surprised that not one single republican voted for this latest bill.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Well, of course they will be, since they didn't jump on the FREE HEALTH CARE FOR EVERYONE!!! bandwagon.

This is a good example of what the first post was referring to. When the "sky is falling" mentality is revealed for its emptiness those who were shouting from the rooftops will only look foolish.

 

[NoJingoLingo]

It's very clear, to anyone who closely followed the entire process (most of us here), that from day one, repubs decided to be against everything Obama wanted to do.

Why would they be so extremely partisan?
Why this time?
I would say that the last year has been, by far, the most partisan Congress I have ever seen in 64 years.

The repubs came out of the gate saying NO to reform. Then they got badgered enough about not having a plan of their own (which should prove they hadn't even considered reform before Obama was elected), so they created a bull**** partisan document. Unfortunately it was just a list of things they would do (didn't do) if in power. It was not a valid alternative.
The repubs spent a year doing everything in their power to knockout reform, in the hopes to kill it like they did under Clinton, and the only thing they accomplished was to make the Bill worse than it could/should have been.
You repubs should be proud.

Going forward, once the Pres. signs the Bill, the dems MUST start running ads listing the good things in the Bill. Otherwise, too many uninformed voters will go to the polls in Nov. with the lingering bad taste over the process and unsure about what's in the Bill. Now is the time for the dems to really start an ad campaign or look forward to more losses in the mid-terms.

The only thing the repubs can do now is to continue to scare people and campaign on repealing parts of the Bill. It's a dangerous game for them, because they won't be able to repeal the entire Bill which leaves them looking like some of the Bill is good, but they were against it anyway.

 

[Politics101]

Republicans failed because they didn't have enough votes to stop socialism. :neutral:

I don't think the American people knew that Obama meant "fundamental change" of the United States when he told voters he'll bring hope and change. I think they thought he meant a change from Bush. Apparently we got the same thing, but worse. Obama lied; the economy died.

 

[liblady]

Republicans failed because they didn't have enough votes to stop socialism. :neutral:

I don't think the American people knew that Obama meant "fundamental change" of the United States when he told voters he'll bring hope and change. I think they thought he meant a change from Bush. Apparently we got the same thing, but worse. Obama lied; the economy died.

my point is not that republcians failed to stop a bill, or influence a bill, but that they failed on a grander scale because they focused on destroying obama, and did not succeed.

 

[disneydude]

Republicans failed because they didn't have enough votes to stop socialism. :neutral:

I don't think the American people knew that Obama meant "fundamental change" of the United States when he told voters he'll bring hope and change. I think they thought he meant a change from Bush. Apparently we got the same thing, but worse. Obama lied; the economy died.

Except for one small fact....the economy is actually doing better under Obama. The economic indicators all say that the economy is improving, slowly...but improving nevertheless.

 

[Gina]

I think the above is exactly right. As the rest of the analysis explains, the public will come to accept and even embrace the healthcare legislation, and the Republicans will be cast as obstructionists.

Destroying Obama was their goal, and it didn't work.

I completely agree. They had no plan for health care. They have ignored it since the Clinton plan was defeated. If they were ever interested in reforming health care and shaping policy, it would have been prudent to address it in 1994 when they instituted the "Contract with America". Failing to do so, they had years under the Bush presidency to pass whatever health care policy they pleased. But didn't.

Given those facts, indeed, their only plan was to destroy Obama and the Democrats. Period.

Oh, and thank goodness there is one sane Republican out there who sees what the GOP did to itself in refusing to negotiate in good faith.

Republicans believe in health care reform, simply not the health care reform proposed by the Democrats. Also, the Republicans had no power to influence the bill because the Democrats had, without republican support, secured enough votes to pass the bill.

Finally, although Obama failing would have been a nice side-effect, I do not believe that was the purpose of Republican opposition to the bill. The bill was and is incredibly flawed and the Republicans were simply doing their best to put a stop to it.

See my reply to Liblady above. No, Republicans don't believe in health care reform or they would have under taken it when they had the power to do so.

The fact remains that the Republicans influenced the bill, contrary to what was stated in the OP.

I have to add my thanks to DD's. Thanks to them, the very influence you give them credit for will result in states' Attorney Generals filing lawsuits. Nicely done. /sarcasm off

I don't think the American people knew that Obama meant "fundamental change" of the United States when he told voters he'll bring hope and change. I think they thought he meant a change from Bush. Apparently we got the same thing, but worse. Obama lied; the economy died.

Again, Obama and Democrats ran on health care reform. Why on Earth anyone is shocked that they carried through on it is beyond me. I knew what I was getting when I voted for him and my other representatives.



From Obama's campaign website.

 

[cpwill]

Yes...and instead of the public option we got the requirement that everyone buy insurance or face a fine. Wow....thanks Republicans and bluedogs...great progress there.

that had to be in any legislation that also forced insurance agencies to cease being insurance agencies (ie; calculators of risk).

As for whether Republicans have 'failed' or not; well, a year ago a majority of Americans supported Obama and health care reform; and trusted the Democrats way over Republicans on the issue.

Now, Obama is underwater in every major poll; the public is staunchly against every one of his big-ticket items (the Stimulus, the Bailouts, healthcare 'reform', and soon Immigration / Cap and Tax), and Republicans look to make some major sweeps in November. They even picked up the Senate Seat in Massachussetts.

I would say, given that they started out the year without a single branch of government, a huge disparity in the House and without even the ability to sustain a fillibuster in the Senate; they've done pretty dang well for themselves.

 

[disneydude]

that had to be in any legislation that also forced insurance agencies to cease being insurance agencies (ie; calculators of risk).

As for whether Republicans have 'failed' or not; well, a year ago a majority of Americans supported Obama and health care reform; and trusted the Democrats way over Republicans on the issue.

Now, Obama is underwater in every major poll; the public is staunchly against every one of his big-ticket items (the Stimulus, the Bailouts, healthcare 'reform', and soon Immigration / Cap and Tax), and Republicans look to make some major sweeps in November. They even picked up the Senate Seat in Massachussetts.

I would say, given that they started out the year without a single branch of government, a huge disparity in the House and without even the ability to sustain a fillibuster in the Senate; they've done pretty dang well for themselves.

Its sad the Republicans have to look for "success" defined as bringing Obama down, rather than "success" in the form of positive accomplishments on behalf of the people of this country.

Thank you for exposing what is being debated here. Republicans never had true healthcare reform as part of their agenda...just like yourself, their only agenda was trying to ensure that Obama fails. Thank God, the GOP failed and failed miserably. Keep up your party of NO negative tactics and there will be a very clear distinction come November. I'm just not sure the outcome is going to be what you are hoping for.:mrgreen:

 

[liblady]

my point exactly.

 

[jallman]

The failure is in the fact that they will be portrayed as obstructionsists. It's a giant political failure, imo.

I am pleased that they obstructed passage of this bill with everything they had. I am disappointed that they didn't succeed but with a Democratic majority, that is understandable.

Now that they unanimously voted against it, what needs to happen is for them to remind people in the midterm that they listened to us whereas the democrats did whatever it is they wanted to do without much regard for the people.

 

[liblady]

I am pleased that they obstructed passage of this bill with everything they had. I am disappointed that they didn't succeed but with a Democratic majority, that is understandable.

Now that they unanimously voted against it, what needs to happen is for them to remind people in the midterm that they listened to us whereas the democrats did whatever it is they wanted to do without much regard for the people.

i hope they do, jallman. they can remind the pepole how they brought nothing to the table except for their desire to destroy obama.

 

[jallman]

i hope they do, jallman. they can remind the pepole how they brought nothing to the table except for their desire to destroy obama.

That is patently false.

 

[liblady]

That is patently false.

you're right........they brought a few ideas, but were ultimately not willing to compromise on anything.

as time passes and the world doesn't collapse, and most people aren't affected by this bill, republicans will be remembered for their staunch opposition to obama and to health care reform.

 

[jallman]

you're right........they brought a few ideas, but were ultimately not willing to compromise on anything.

as time passes and the world doesn't collapse, and most people aren't affected by this bill, republicans will be remembered for their staunch opposition to obama and to health care reform.

And I will thank them for it with my continued support.