Why is the economy deteriorating? Rent seeking

[phattonez]

We have a myth that the rich are rich because of hard work, or especially invaluable contributions. Largely today, however, that's not true. What makes the rich rich is rent seeking, unearned income. This is a problem because people are wealthy not because they're producing wealth and making everyone better off. Rather, they're extracting wealth and leaving less of it for laborers.

I'm going to leave a YouTube video that goes over this issue. Enjoy!



Make no mistake, this has a real effect, and people today are mostly making less than they were in the mid 1970's. Back then, a person could buy a home with just one income. Not anymore. Why would anyone apologize for a system that clearly isn't working?

 

[Lursa]

You completely failed to make this argument in a different thread, so why are you trying again? Looking for a different audience?

Your premise is ridiculous...people end up wealthy in a million different ways. It doesnt require being a landlord.

Oh, and dont forget the significant positive effect on the economy that landlords produce, in terms of spending their income and rental service-required (for ex. maint & repair service jobs) income locally and in a wider context (for ex. supporting jobs for people that might otherwise be on unemployment).

You know...the $$ that supports small and large businesses, enabling them to hire and keep people employed, buying services and products (also enabling employment), paying for a wider range of services that are not only for food & shelter but that keep businesses and state/community recreational/sports centers, parks, open, provides jobs. All those discretionary dollars find a place to go for kids piano lessons, soccer, buying a boat, providing income for these services and products, etc etc etc. Also keeps medical facilities in towns, provides more jobs.

Yes, landlord $$ is a significant contributor in creating a healthy economy. Not to mention the valuable service of providing safe, clean housing.

 

[phattonez]

You completely failed to make this argument in a different thread, so why are you trying again? Looking for a different audience?

Your premise is ridiculous...people end up wealthy in a million different ways. It doesnt require being a landlord.

Oh, and dont forget the significant positive effect on the economy that landlords produce, in terms of spending their income and rental service-required (for ex. maint & repair service jobs) income locally and in a wider context (for ex. supporting jobs for people that might otherwise be on unemployment).

You know...the $$ that supports small and large businesses, enabling them to hire and keep people employed, buying services and products (also enabling employment), paying for a wider range of services that are not only for food & shelter but that keep businesses and state/community recreational/sports centers, parks, open, provides jobs. All those discretionary dollars find a place to go for kids piano lessons, soccer, buying a boat, providing income for these services and products, etc etc etc. Also keeps medical facilities in towns, provides more jobs.

Yes, landlord $$ is a significant contributor in creating a healthy economy. Not to mention the valuable service of providing safe, clean housing.

Has this been good for the economy? Was the economy performing better before or after this massive rise?

The Rent(al Income as a Percentage of GDP) Is Too Damn High, and Households Severely Burdened with Housing Costs - Roosevelt Institute

 

[Rogue Valley]

Why do you always ignore the huge tax breaks that Trump/GOP just gave to the wealthy and corporations?

 

[phattonez]

Why do you always ignore the huge tax breaks that Trump/GOP just gave to the wealthy and corporations?

Who's ignored it? I've constantly called for raising the capital gains rate and cutting tax breaks on unearned income.

 

[Lursa]

Has this been good for the economy? Was the economy performing better before or after this massive rise?

As if rent is the only factor :roll: If you want to change the influence of renting on the economy, then people need to change their personal decisions that lead them to rent. If there's no demand, there wont be rentals.

But since you claim all the options for people to develop the resources to buy (like move out of the area, commute farther, develop job skills, house share, wait to start a family, etc) are unreasonable, you arent really open to anything but demeaning people who, in general, contribute to the economy and provide safe, clean housing.

 

[Nap]

Why do you always ignore the huge tax breaks that Trump/GOP just gave to the wealthy and corporations?

Out of curiosity, what is your view on tariffs?

 

[rickc]

change the holding period for long term capital gains from its present 1 year to 5 years. All other income taxed as ordinary income.

i would even take that a step further and raise the rate to 25%

now income tax rates need to change too! how about we go back to the top marginal tax rate pre-Reagan when all this mess started. Let that top bracket start at $500,000.

now for the estate tax. 50% above $5 million. no loopholes. just straight up 50% of what it is worth. Only way to redistribute the wealth that has concentrated at the top since Reagan. it will take several generations.

my theory why the middle/working class did so well before Reagan is the owners of the corporations and their shareholders had two choices give the money to their workers or the tax man. Made it much easier to pay those higher wages. After Reagan they got to keep it all and they have.spent a lot of.money to keep it that way.

 

[OscarLevant]

We have a myth that the rich are rich because of hard work, or especially invaluable contributions. Largely today, however, that's not true. What makes the rich rich is rent seeking, unearned income. This is a problem because people are wealthy not because they're producing wealth and making everyone better off. Rather, they're extracting wealth and leaving less of it for laborers.

I'm going to leave a YouTube video that goes over this issue. Enjoy!



Make no mistake, this has a real effect, and people today are mostly making less than they were in the mid 1970's. Back then, a person could buy a home with just one income. Not anymore. Why would anyone apologize for a system that clearly isn't working?

Capitalism works great for products that can be manufactured but for things that cannot such as land doesn't work so good.

 

[OscarLevant]

You completely failed to make this argument in a different thread, so why are you trying again? Looking for a different audience?

Your premise is ridiculous...people end up wealthy in a million different ways. It doesnt require being a landlord.

Oh, and dont forget the significant positive effect on the economy that landlords produce, in terms of spending their income and rental service-required (for ex. maint & repair service jobs) income locally and in a wider context (for ex. supporting jobs for people that might otherwise be on unemployment).

You know...the $$ that supports small and large businesses, enabling them to hire and keep people employed, buying services and products (also enabling employment), paying for a wider range of services that are not only for food & shelter but that keep businesses and state/community recreational/sports centers, parks, open, provides jobs. All those discretionary dollars find a place to go for kids piano lessons, soccer, buying a boat, providing income for these services and products, etc etc etc. Also keeps medical facilities in towns, provides more jobs.

Yes, landlord $$ is a significant contributor in creating a healthy economy. Not to mention the valuable service of providing safe, clean housing.

Landlords are taking more on the average of renters disposable income than they were back in the late 60s early 70s.

It's not the landlord's fault however it's the fault of capitalism. Capitalism works well for products that can be manufactured not so well for things that cannot such as land.

 

[phattonez]

Capitalism works great for products that can be manufactured but for things that cannot such as land doesn't work so good.

I don't think it would be as bad without the massive tax breaks that they get. Their exploitation is subsidized.

 

[Anarchon]

If someone can figure out a way to get money without using force, what business of yours is it? What exactly has happened that is unethical or has caused you harm?

 

[Lursa]

Landlords are taking more on the average of renters disposable income than they were back in the late 60s early 70s.

It's not the landlord's fault however it's the fault of capitalism. Capitalism works well for products that can be manufactured not so well for things that cannot such as land.

That is true of housing in general. Owning or renting.

 

[phattonez]

If someone can figure out a way to get money without using force, what business of yours is it? What exactly has happened that is unethical or has caused you harm?

So if the two of us live on a desert island and I own the only arable farm land, am I justified in demanding 90% of the food that you produce on my land?

 

[Anarchon]

So if the two of us live on a desert island and I own the only arable farm land, am I justified in demanding 90% of the food that you produce on my land?

Both you and I are responsible for whatever contracts we agree to, even if it is one as you describe. I've answered your question. Notice you have still not answered mine.

 

[phattonez]

Both you and I are responsible for whatever contracts we agree to, even if it is one as you describe.

What you've described is no society that I would want to live in.

 

[Linc]

Who's ignored it? I've constantly called for raising the capital gains rate and cutting tax breaks on unearned income.

Gilded Old Plunderers — Trillion Dollar Deficits — Windfall Tax Cuts for Trust Find Babies

 

[Anarchon]

What you've described is no society that I would want to live in.

Notice that you're still avoiding the question.

Also notice that the society you do want to live in is one that advocates the initiation of force, to include stealing.

 

[phattonez]

Notice that you're still avoiding the question.

Also notice that the society you do want to live in is one that advocates the initiation of force, to include stealing.

I'd rather live in a society that engages in what you call "stealing" than one where everyone starves to prop up someone who chooses not to work.

 

[Anarchon]

I'd rather live in a society that engages in what you call "stealing" than one where everyone starves to prop up someone who chooses not to work.

You imply disparity where none exists. Stealing and giving to those who do not work is exactly what your society has done.

And, notice you still have not answered the question. One might think you were avoiding it due to the embarrassment it might cause you.

 

[phattonez]

You imply disparity where none exists. Stealing and giving to those who do not work is exactly what your society has done.

So that first guy who owns the land gets to own the land in perpetuity, even if he hasn't added his own labor to it for generations?

And, notice you still have not answered the question. One might think you were avoiding it due to the embarrassment it might cause you.

I don't think that stealing is the only evil that one can engage in. Why do you think it is?

 

[Lursa]

What you've described is no society that I would want to live in.

You didnt describe any society. You provided a completely unrealistic scenario.

The economy, finances, ownership, non-ownership, etc do not exist in vacuum like you describe.

 

[Anarchon]

So that first guy who owns the land gets to own the land in perpetuity, even if he hasn't added his own labor to it for generations?



I don't think that stealing is the only evil that one can engage in. Why do you think it is?

I will continue answering your questions if and when you answer my first one.

 

[phattonez]

You didnt describe any society. You provided a completely unrealistic scenario.

It's from these simple scenarios that we understand larger economic truths.

The economy, finances, ownership, non-ownership, etc do not exist in vacuum like you describe.

Therefore what? What are we financing? Not productive, wealth producing assets. We're financing consumer debt, real estate, and other sterile things. How does this grow our wealth? It doesn't, it just raises asset values and enriches lenders without adding real wealth to the economy.

 

[phattonez]

I will continue answering your questions if and when you answer my first one.

The unethical part about what you state is that is justifies exploitation, which I cannot in good conscience defend.