leejosepho
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nkgupta80 said:common misconception that all religions believe there's it the only true one. Hinduism for one certainly doesn't believe that. The guiding rule is, if you are living your life in the search of truth then you are a Hindu. Thus we were taught to consider anyone of any religion or philosophy a Hindu if they follow that simple guideline.
We'd have religious panels in our school, where certain religious heads from each religion were brought up to share their views. It was interesting to note that all the leaders, including the Muslim leader, when asked if their's was the true religion, replied that it is true for me, but ultimately it is you who decides what will help you discover happiness in life. Something like this was the answer for all the religions.
But for the Christian guys it was different. When asked this question they'd argue why the other religions are wrong. I'm pretty sure this is not common in all denominations of Christianity, but instead of truly giving a sense of what their religion was about, they'd resort to convoluted logic and historical/scientific evidence, to basically prove that other religions were wrong.
Yes, I would venture to guess that Hinduism has met two religions which resist its Ameoba-like ability to absorb spiritual paths. They are having trouble with Islam in India, after all. I would like to use my history eraser button to get the (human) guy who made up the line "I am the Lord, thy God, you shall have none other". Whatever good came of the cultural cohesion this fellow gained for his people has to pale compared to harm this one line has created.blogger31 said:I would venture to guess it is true in all denominations of Christianity. The biggest reason many Christians believe that other religions are wrong is not because of who they worship. Muslims, and Jews worship the same God, it all centers on Christ. Muslims and Jews do not believe he is the son of God. If you think Muslims do not think other religions are wrong, straight ask them if a Christian is wrong or right in not believing that Mohammad is the one true prophet. Any other answer besides yes or no, is pure PC BS.
leejosepho said:>> common misconception that all religions believe there's it the only true one.
I am no expert here, but it seems there are three Scripture-related or –drawn religions that are fundamentally exclusive (or exclusive in their fundamental forms): Judaism, Islam and Christianity. As a former Christian, I was certainly taught that “we” were right and “everybody else” was wrong, and yes, fundamental Islam bears evidence of similar thinking. However, I have yet to hear any Jew ever speak of his or her religion (beliefs and practices) in comparison to any other. Rather, and while certainly not unaware of surrounding contrast or even conflict, it seems that the Jew generally continues to do whatever Jews do, and without believing or finding it necessary to initiate frustration for others.
As already pointed out, other religions are more commonly relatively tolerant, openly inclusive or even actively pluralistic ... thereby found “acceptable” to people otherwise offended by certain tenets or elements of sectarian religion.
>> The biggest reason many Christians believe that other religions are wrong ... all centers on Christ. Muslims and Jews do not believe he is the son of God.
Again admitting I am no expert here, I believe that statement is essentially correct. Jews, Muslims and Christians all believe the man wrongly called “Jesus” – a name that comes from dragging a Hebrew name through Greek – was once actually here, but they variously disagree on the matter of that man’s alleged divinity, purpose and “work” (in allegedly doing away with “the law”). However, it is interesting that at least even certain Muslims believe that alleged “Son” is returning, for they have walled the Eastern Gate to try to prevent that! And as another side note: There are even some Christians who believe Muslims’ belief along that line actually qualifies them for salvation.
>> I would like to use my history eraser button to get the (human) guy who made up the line "I am the Lord, thy God, you shall have none other".
It is pure speculation to imply that particular “line” was “made up” by any man, and the hard evidence of the overall “Exodus from Egypt” and something specific having then actually taken place at Sinai can easily erase any such possibility.
>> Whatever good came of the cultural cohesion this fellow gained for his people has to pale compared to harm this one line has created.
Religious misuse of certain truths is a travesty nearly as old as man, but the “cultural cohesion” of the Hebrew people actually began long before Moshe’ was ever brought onto YHWH’s global stage.
Shabbat Shalom.
It is not pure speculation. It is reasonable to believe that it was likely made up. But you are right, I was begging the question.leejosepho said:>>
>> I would like to use my history eraser button to get the (human) guy who made up the line "I am the Lord, thy God, you shall have none other".
It is pure speculation to imply that particular “line” was “made up” by any man, and the hard evidence of the overall “Exodus from Egypt” and something specific having then actually taken place at Sinai can easily erase any such possibility.
Yes, of course, many people have developed cultural cohesion without unigods. India is a nice example. Nevertheless, it is helpful, when you're a young tribe wandering in the wilderness, to have a common faith. Or, at any time, for that matter. And... speaking of speculation: It is high speculation to assume that Moses came after a long period of cultural cohesion. Or that things were holding together out there in the wilderness. Which it kinda seems like they weren't.>> Whatever good came of the cultural cohesion this fellow gained for his people has to pale compared to harm this one line has created.
Religious misuse of certain truths is a travesty nearly as old as man, but the “cultural cohesion” of the Hebrew people actually began long before Moshe’ was ever brought onto YHWH’s global stage.
Shabbat Shalom.
Joe7000 said:Its Wonderful to find out that Palestinians and Iraqis are not frustrated by Zionism. Boy, I feel so much better now. Thanks!
Dezaad said:... many people have developed cultural cohesion without unigods. India is a nice example.
Dezaad said:Nevertheless, it is helpful, when you're a young tribe wandering in the wilderness, to have a common faith.
Dezaad said:... high speculation to assume ... that things were holding together out there in the wilderness. Which it kinda seems like they weren't.
Dezaad said:And Welcome to Debate Politics. It is a pleasure to meet you.
leejosepho said:As I either understand or misundertand it, Zionism is not an inherent part of Judaism. In other words, not all Jews are Zionists any more than all Muslims are "radicals" or all Christians are exclusivists. Just as with Muslims and Christians, there might be some Jews -- not knowing for sure, I can only assume there are some -- who believe they are always right and should be in charge or control or at least dominant or whatever, but that does not automatically mean they have actually been sovereignly-charged with any such responsibility. The "message" of Scripture first charged to the Jew is that of YHWH's power (to deliver), Love (in provision) and Way of Life (in right fellowship and worship), and as best I understand things, Zionism is an entirely different matter. For example, it is my understanding that the temple site in Jerusalem already belongs to the Jews, but that they do not desecrate the Mosque and evict Muslims. It is in that type of context that I say Jews do not by conscious intent categorically frustrate others.
Well, we do, some of us, have our religion based food taboos, don't we. It is reasonable to believe that such taboos arose out of pre-existing (and wise, for the time) traditions. Simple people seem to need taboos to guide them away from serious errors of a certain time and place. Later, when the threat is gone, simple people continue to adhere to such taboos, because the original reason for the tradition might be long forgotten. This seems far more reasonable than believing that cows actually are holy, or that pigs make you actually unclean. In any case, India has risen and fallen, yet remains always through the millennia. While some periods may be marked by decadence, others by dangerous simple-mindedness, and yet others by profound enlightenment, it remains. Cohesion remains. So, yes I would call India, on the whole, cohesive.leejosepho said:Personally, I would hardly call letting children starve in streets where cows run free "cultural cohesion". But, maybe I have been misinformed about one thing or another.
You seem fairly certain of this. Why so?Other than their (The Jewish People) being at least over 400 years old ...
Mmmm, I'd have to see some fairly strong extrabiblical evidence to agree with you here.... *not* any alleged "high speculation to assume that Moses came after a long period of cultural cohesion."
More certainty, where evidence lacks.In fact: Their "common faith" (as connected to and passed along through Abraham) certainly preceded Moshe' by an appreciable time.
So, you're going to be able to present passages out of the Bible where things were going swimmingly when Moses went up onto the mountain?For example?!
I have this hunch this will be true. Nevertheless, the welcome was completely sincere, and remains so. I like the way you present things with which I disagree. For that, I respect you.Thank you so very much, truly, and I say the same. And, it is perfectly okay with me if we might completely disagree on everything ...
I like truth. Now, if I could just determine which things are.... as long as we can maintain at least a modicum of intellectual honesty while looking together in a common search for truth.
Joe7000 said:As to scripture: Depending solely on what side of a given argument, one is on, any proof can be forthcoming supporting that particular side. Such is the nature of manmade/manwritten/maninforced religions. If there were a "true" God, there would be (nor would there ever have been) no argument. Especially if we are considering a "true" LOVING God. The other kind need not apply for my support.
leejosepho said:Yes, sectarian misunderstanding, mis-use or even intentional twisting of Scripture definitely plays a significant role in conflict and bloodshed around the world, and yes, Christian arrogance and opportunism do help to fuel Zionism. However, does any of that truly prove there is something either wrong with or unloving about a Supreme Being who would nevertheless allow man to exercise the free will He had already first sovereignly granted to him?
Personally, I believe it best to hold judgment on that particular matter for yet a little while ... and in the meantime, to stay as far as possible away from any human being(s) claiming any kind of advantage or superiority over even the very least of mankind ...
... and to then see who is still standing after the smoke clears.
Dezaad said:India has risen and fallen, yet remains always through the millennia. While some periods may be marked by decadence, others by dangerous simple-mindedness, and yet others by profound enlightenment, it remains. Cohesion remains. So, yes I would call India, on the whole, cohesive.
Dezaad said:... you're going to be able to present passages out of the Bible where things were going swimmingly when Moses went up onto the mountain?
nkgupta80 said:the cow taboo mainly arose from the fact that due to high after-birth mortality for mothers, the cow would be considered as the "mother" for these children by providing milk. Thus killing such an animal was considered taboo. This idea was furthered by ofshoots of hinduism such as jainism where all harm against living creatures was forbidden.
Joe7000 said:If all the bloodshed, pain, torture, innocent death and suffering down through history only has significance with reference to who is left standing when the smoke clears, then my first act of free will is to renounce free will.
leejosepho said:My point there was simply that the elitist-tyrants are going to be vaporized, and that the remaining will "inherit the earth" or whatever ...
... but if everyone would do as you have mentioned along the line of free-will abandonment of free will, all the "bloodshed, pain, torture, innocent death and suffering" yet making ever more ugly history would stop immediately.
leejosepho said:My point there was simply that the elitist-tyrants are going to be vaporized, and that the remaining will "inherit the earth" or whatever ...
... but if everyone would do as you have mentioned along the line of free-will abandonment of free will, all the "bloodshed, pain, torture, innocent death and suffering" yet making ever more ugly history would stop immediately.
AlbqOwl said:It seems to me that there is no way to prove or disprove the existance of God or gods or to make a case for Christianity (or any other religion) other than by experiencing it. Those who believe they have experienced God by whatever name via any relgiion will have a different perspective than those who have not. Some believe they have experienced the living Christ and have been changed for the better for that experience. These are the true Christian believers and they generally call their belief Christianity.
Christians who are the true believers, however, should not be confused with those who have or who do profess Christianity out of political and social expediency. Such are a different breed altogether as is the occasional nut who confuses fanatical psychosis with religious experience.
There are probably as many different Christian beliefs as there are religions of the world, and that is no doubt confusing to nonbelievers. What Christians believe now is influenced by the beliefs outlined in the Bible, but all Judeochristian history must always be viewed in its own time through the culture and experience of those who were writing it or now living it. Personally, I think it presumptious for Christians, athiests, or any other to assume that their own experience is all there is. And I think everybody who has adopted a religious belief, whether it is to believe in God and/or Christ or believe in no god, believes his/her belief is superior to all others. Most of us are even presumptious enough to say so.
Personally, I think a God that could be fully understood, described, explained,or defined by any of us mere mortals wouldn't be much of a God. There's plenty of room for everybody here.
A couple of points:
1. There is no such thing as "Judeochristian". Judaism is as far from Christianity as heaven is from hell. Jews adhere to the law as espoused by the Torah and Christians adhere to faith in John 3:16. Jews believe in one God: YHVH. Christians believe in a triune God, with Jesus as God incarnate. Jews believe a political messiah has yet to come for the first time; Christians believe the messiah will return for the second time.
2. People must understand that if scripture is flawed (whether the Jewish Torah or the King James version of the bible) then the Gods of both religions must also be flawed. Where else did Jews and Christians get their notion of God, if not from the above sources? Had neither of those "scriptures" existed, this particular God would never have been even contemplated. Have you ever heard of the God whose name is ExCrat? No? The reason you haven't is because the Great God ExCrat has never been publicized. Of course, a thousand years from now the Great God ExCrat will be known throughout the earth as the ONE and only TRUE GOD. How do I know? Because I just invented Him. Surely I am as trustworthy as any other flawed law/faith book!
3. I do agree with you on one very important point: For those who sincerely believe they have experienced some "true" God, allow me to make this small suggestion: KEEP YOUR EXPERIENCE TO YOURSELF. YOUR ACTIONS WILL SHOW OTHERS IF YOU ARE CONVERTED TO GOODNESS, MORE SO THAN ALL THE WORDS IN THE WORLD. And whatever you do, don't start up another religion -- the world is choking to death with the ones already here. If you have to pray, go into a closet and do so in secret. (Where have I heard THAT before?)
AlbqOwl said:Joe writes
I gently disagree that 'Judaism is as far from Christianity' as heaven is from hell. I think nobody can understand the New Testament either in content or meaning without a solid grounding in Old Testament history, law, metaphor, poetry, and prophecy. That is not to suggest that Christians are bound to Old Testament dictates, but we cannot deny that New Testament faith is firmly grounded in the Old.
I also gently disagree that people of faith should 'keep their experience to themselves'. To do so would even be against the mandates of many. I do not, however, approve of using any belief as a bludgeon or threat. I can't imagine many, if any, have ever been converted by being told they were going to hell, nor can I imagine any are impressed by being told their faith is inferior.
The question of this thread was "Why is Christianity the true religion". I can't answer that without violating my own beliefs. I can only say that those who experience it know it to be a true religion. Whether it is THE true religion is still open to speculation.
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