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Why government regulation is undemocratic

aociswundumho

Capitalist Pig
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1) Rulemaking = lawmaking

For example: congress says "reduce carbon emissions." Then the epa sets the specific standards that decide which industries thrive or die. Thats power equivalent to legislation.

2) No direct accountability to voters.

A congressman can be voted out if people hate a law. A regulator at osha or the epa? Nope. They're career bureaucrats insulated from the voters.

3) It allows politicians to dodge responsibility.

Legislators pass vague bills and leave the hard decisions to agencies. If a regulation is unpopular, they can say, "That wasn’t me, that was the agency."

4) In a democracy, laws have to be written by people the public can vote out. Otherwise it's not democratic.


Let me address the most common progressive/fascist objection:

The state must micromanage our lives, and that's not possible without allowing unelected bureaucrats to write thousands of laws.
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If the state must micromanage our lives, that's already the problem. The fact that it's "too complicated" for elected lawmakers to do it themselves isn't an argument for outsourcing tyranny to unelected bureaucrats, it's an argument against micromanagement in the first place.
 
Like regulations on where to store nuclear waste?
 
Slartibartfast said:
Good thing we live in a democratic republic instead of a pure democracy then.
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From the constitution:

All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.
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My congressman has no education or background in the sciences. I want him to support clean air and clean water. It would be irresponsible to expect him to to make the decisions as to specifically how to accomplish that. Therefore, I want him to defer to people who are actually knowledgeable about such matters. He said he would do that. That's why I voted for him.

One man's 'tyranny' is another man's clean water.
 
aociswundumho said:
From the constitution:
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And Congress passed laws that created agencies that carry out the will and intent of Congress.

Your argument implies that only the president of the US shall make any arrests in enforcing US laws. To defer to an unconstitutional agency like the FDA, FBI or IRS or ATF to regulate taxes or explosives or banking is just wrong.
No one elected the AG, so he's out. The director of the FBI is appointed, therefore he's no good. Only the president, elected by the people, to do a job should be allowed to do that job. His reliance on unelected bureaucrats is tyranny.
 

Fine. He can take advice, but don't let the expert make the rules. Note that experts aren't infallible, they make mistakes just like everybody else.

Unless you're a fascist, you should want the people to be able to vote out the decision maker if he screws up.
 
Stealers Wheel said:
And Congress passed laws that created agencies that carry out the will and intent of Congress.
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Yes, but there's a big difference between carrying out a law and writing new ones. The constitution is explicit: all legislative power rests with congress. Agencies enforcing the law is constitutional. Agencies inventing new rules with the force of law is not.
 
No, they don't. DJT and JFK, men with zero education or background in sciences, diseases, or medicines make mistakes that we all pay for in blood and treasure.

This happens because our elected officials in the US Senate failed to do their duty in holding Trump accountable for his crimes and refusing to deny confirmation to unqualified presidential nominees.
 
aociswundumho said:
From the constitution:
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Unfortunately, creating and funding various ‘do whatever you think we meant’, including making ‘rules’ which serve as (new?) laws, federal departments, agencies and programs is a legislative power of congress.
 
aociswundumho said:
Yes they do. For just one example, the epa approved adding mtbe to gas in the 90s, which was a very big mistake.
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And, when it was discovered to be an environmental hazard, what was done? Did Congress call a special session and pass a law banning mtbe? No, they didn't. Scientists, at the EPA, using their unique and special knowledge and skillsets changed the regulations and removed mtbe relatively quickly.

Now, as far as I know, the only people who were unhappy with this brazen act of tyranny were the makers of mtbe. Their rights and freedoms were stomped all over by the evil EPA.
 
Stealers Wheel said:
And, when it was discovered to be an environmental hazard, what was done?
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It doesn't matter. You claimed they don't make mistakes, and they do. Even worse was the fda keeping beta blockers off the market for years, resulting in the deaths of thousands of people.
 
Someone not only doesn't know their history, but civics as well.

I know you don't mean to, but you are advocating that all governance at all levels since the Revolution is not democratic.
 
aociswundumho said:
It doesn't matter. You claimed they don't make mistakes, and they do. Even worse was the fda keeping beta blockers off the market for years, resulting in the deaths of thousands of people.
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Yes- scientists make mistakes. And they don’t know everything.

Do you suggest that means we ignore the latest science and just go with public opinion?
 
Jason Warfield said:
Someone not only doesn't know their history, but civics as well.

I know you don't mean to, but you are advocating that all governance at all levels since the Revolution is not democratic.
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Oh that's exactly what means. He has advocated for years on this board that governments are instituted expressly to subjugate the people, that all laws are evil shackles on the people.
 
aociswundumho said:
From the constitution:
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Some delegation is required in a country as big as the USA. EPA regulators, if they make bad decisions, can be fired by the President and/or Congress as far as I understand. Stop sign and speed limit sign placement also creates rules that have the force of law. Does that mean Congressmen must personally do the work of deciding where each one goes, essentially doing the work of traffic engineers?
 
ataraxia said:
So what is your alternative?
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Don't let them do that.


Answered at the end of the OP.
 
Bong circle bullshit is really easy to spew from behind a keyboard, living in a country guided by regulations that allow one to even POST this kind of nonsense in the first place.

In days before government regulations - and the protections that people enjoy because of them - merely speaking poorly about wealthy capitalist could - and did - get your wife and kids burned alive in a tent.

That’s when we were TRULY free
 
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