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Why does America value its averaged enlisted soldier so much?

The next Sec of Defense said women do not belong in combat roles
 
Calidebater said:
Why does America value its normal soldiers so much? Is it this hard to issue a kid a gun? Is that kid having a gun mean he's some kind of God?
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"America" doesn't value its soldiers (its people may). There's a reason there are countless charities for veterans. This country has never taken care of its soldiers.
 
Fledermaus said:
There are countless charities for cancer patients.

And?
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And, no one is obligated to take care of cancer patients. The government has an obligation to take care of its soldiers. Veterans have been neglected since this country fought the revolutionary war. Ever talked to a vet about their VA experience?
 
Sidd Finch said:
And, no one is obligated to take care of cancer patients.
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No one spoke of an obligation.

Sidd Finch said:
The government has an obligation to take care of its soldiers. Veterans have been neglected since this country fought the revolutionary war. Ever talked to a vet about their VA experience?
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Yes. And like every other medical system there are good and bad experiences. A local hospital was shut down due to a number of violations of protocol..... And it wasn't VA.
 
Fledermaus said:
No one spoke of an obligation.
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OK

Fledermaus said:
Yes. And like every other medical system there are good and bad experiences. A local hospital was shut down due to a number of violations of protocol..... And it wasn't VA.
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Sure. But, we know we don't have the resources to take care of the solders when they return from a pointless war, but send them anyway (forcing them to rely on charities for support). That's certainly not valuing them.
 
Fledermaus said:
Resources =/= Caring
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Sending into war, when you know you don't have the recourses =/= caring

The military has literally poisoned its soldiers for decades. I'm not sure where you get the idea that our soldiers are valued.
 
Sidd Finch said:
And, no one is obligated to take care of cancer patients. The government has an obligation to take care of its soldiers. Veterans have been neglected since this country fought the revolutionary war. Ever talked to a vet about their VA experience?
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Are you a veteran and do you use the VA?
 
Sidd Finch said:
Sending into war, when you know you don't have the recourses =/= caring

The military has literally poisoned its soldiers for decades. I'm not sure where you get the idea that our soldiers are valued.
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How much would be sufficient to meet your "caring" hurdle?

The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) received $135.25 billion in non-defense discretionary funding and $172.5 billion in mandatory funding for the 2024 fiscal year. The VA's 2024 budget includes:
  • Traditional benefits: $160 billion for traditional benefits to veterans
  • Construction: $1.9 billion for construction
  • Cost of War Toxic Exposures Fund: $20.3 billion for the Cost of War Toxic Exposures Fund (TEF)
  • Staffing: Anticipation of supporting 453,824 Full-time Equivalent (FTE) staff

The VA also received a $3 billion supplemental funding bill in September 2024 to avoid delays in paying benefits to veterans and their survivors
 
Calidebater said:
Why does America value its normal soldiers so much? Is it this hard to issue a kid a gun? Is that kid having a gun mean he's some kind of God?
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I don't understand the question.

Why don't we use WW1 style tactics of sprinting over nomansland and getting millions killed for little or no benefit?
Erm, mainly because we'd rather not have to have millions of funerals and have the families of the dead ask why such stupid tactics were used.

I don't think any modern military person would accept such tactics even if ordered to use them.
 
Sidd Finch said:
Ever talked to a vet about their VA experience?
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Here is one thing that everybody not in uniform has to understand.

The VA is not a Military Organization. It is 100% a civilian one, that 99% takes care of only civilians. There is the odd individual on active duty that is taken care of by the VA, normally because they will have the kind of injury that requires long term care, and the VA facility happened to be the best in the area to take care of it. Case in point, I knew one individual like that in 1985 who was injured in an off-duty accident and broke his neck. The Navy generally does not have facilities for that kind of long term treatment and rehabilitation, so he was transferred to the VA even though he was still on active duty. But they also knew he would never return to full duty, so that would also make his transition once he got out a tad easier. A very rare instance, but it does happen from time to time.

Others are the military dependents they take care of. Most specifically spouses and children of those killed or missing in the service, or those of servicemembers completely disabled.

But one can not equate the VA in any way with the military. They really do have nothing to do with each other, and a great many including myself would actually like to see the VA "nuked". And actually reformed with some real military oversight.
 
Fledermaus said:
So.... Second hand information. Got it.
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My father's death, due to government criminal neglect, was not second hand information. Recent VA experience, sure...I'm guessing you have your personal experience with the VA, and then second hand information. I hope your experience is great.
 
Sidd Finch said:
But, we know we don't have the resources to take care of the solders when they return from a pointless war
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We don't? And exactly what resources are you thinking are needed?

Let me guess, you are one of those that tends to believe all in the military are "broken", and need serious help because they are a step away from going on a shooting rampage or to start using hard drugs.
 
Oozlefinch said:
We don't? And exactly what resources are you thinking are needed?
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How about something to help with the fact that 22 veterans kill themselves every day. But, nah...things are great, and they are valued.
 

Well, at least a modern military person in the US or UK. But in some nations like Russia and China that is still a valid military tactic.

I often shake my head at how ignorant most people are on what serving in the military is actually like.

In over two decades since 2001, the total number of US military deaths was just over 7,000. That is not a lot more than the number killed in the month long battle on Iwo Jima. That is about half the number killed in the three month battle on Okinawa. That is less than double the number killed in a single day on 6 June 1944.

I honestly do think that most civilians simply have no concept how bloody war can be, because it has been so long since such wars have happened involving any English speaking nation. Oh, they still happen all over the world today, but as it does not involve "us", nobody really cares.
 
I have a feeling the number of people volunteering to be in the armed forces would take a rather large hit if people felt there was a large chance of being used as cannon fodder.

It's not the most compelling of argument.
Join the service and maybe you wont get blown to bits in a pointless charge or get overrun in a needlessly heroic fight to the death for a position we'll give up anyway a few hours later.

For some reason most recruits seem to prefer having leaders who give at least a slight shit about them.
 
Sidd Finch said:
How about something to help with the fact that 22 veterans kill themselves every day.
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Yes, and? What in the hell does that have to do with anything?

Around 150 people in the US kill each other every day, 128 of them were never veterans. So what exactly is your point?

I should warn you right now, I have a rather large distaste for people that think that "dragging out dead military" just to make some kind of obscure point that means something only to themselves is something I find highly distasteful. And you are coming really close to that now. Can you actually give any kind of link to those 22 and their military service? Or what could have been done to prevent it?
 

I fully accept war can be hell.
I just think the military has learned through tough choices that taking as few casualties as possible is the best tactic.
Keeping already trained troops alive kind of helps in the long run.
 
Sidd Finch said:
My father's death, due to government criminal neglect, was not second hand information.
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Interesting. Criminal neglect.

Have you had anyone charged?

Was this VA related?

Sidd Finch said:
Recent VA experience, sure...I'm guessing you have your personal experience with the VA, and then second hand information. I hope your experience is great.
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My interaction with the VA is drawing disability payments.
 
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