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Why do men think it is their business what women decide?

Men should have no power over a woman's choice. But that's not to say they can't have an opinion, or offer inducements to the woman. Men are not completely superfluous to raising a child, so how could you object to a man trying to persuade a woman that he'd be a good father?

Note that I'm not assuming the man is the biological father, or even the sexual partner of the woman. Good men can be good fathers without that.
 
Patriotic Voter said:
HER BODY. HER LIFE. HER CHOICE.

Nothing else matters before the 35th week except her bank account.
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I'd go with post-birth of a healthy baby, with her bank account irrelevant to any one but her.
 
Patriotic Voter said:
HER BODY. HER LIFE. HER CHOICE.

Nothing else matters before the 35th week except her bank account.
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How do you feel about the biological father of the child being able to "opt out" of having any responsibility (financial and any other way) right up until the 35th week?


If she can abort whenever she wants with no say from the father, then shouldn't he be able to abdicate any and all responsibility including financially during that same time period?
 
Dragonfly said:
How do you feel about the biological father of the child being able to "opt out" of having any responsibility (financial and any other way) right up until the 35th week?


If she can abort whenever she wants with no say from the father, then shouldn't he be able to abdicate any and all responsibility including financially during that same time period?
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You weren't asking me, but I would say Yes. Neither biological parent should have any financial obligation to a child. When the custodial parent (or parents) can't afford a child, the GOVERNMENT should pay.

Children are future adults (taxpayers or jailbirds) and government should pay for what it benefits from.
 
Dragonfly said:
How do you feel about the biological father of the child being able to "opt out" of having any responsibility (financial and any other way) right up until the 35th week?


If she can abort whenever she wants with no say from the father, then shouldn't he be able to abdicate any and all responsibility including financially during that same time period?
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Only if the father can conclusively demonstrate to a judge that opting out of his parental responsibilities is in the best interest of his child.
 
The answer is ego and power.

No more and no less than that.

Men’s egos and quest for power.


The men that concern themselves with the choices that women make and want to subjugate women are weak and insecure men.
 
It is stupid to pretend that men have no right to an opinion at all.

If the child is born, the man has legal responsibilities, so to pretend the choice has nothing to do with him is just a terrible take.
 
samiam5211 said:
It is stupid to pretend that men have no right to an opinion at all.

If the child is born, the man has legal responsibilities, so to pretend the choice has nothing to do with him is just a terrible take.
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He has a right to an opinion. But his opinion doesn't carry any legal weight. The pregnant woman gets the final say.
 
Irredentist said:
He has a right to an opinion. But his opinion doesn't carry any legal weight. The pregnant woman gets the final say.
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I agree. I'm 100% pro choice, but to say that men have no right to an opinion on the topic of abortion is just dumb.
 
Irredentist said:
Only if the father can conclusively demonstrate to a judge that opting out of his parental responsibilities is in the best interest of his child.
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What?

Does a woman have to do that before getting a abortion?
 
Patriotic Voter said:
HER BODY. HER LIFE. HER CHOICE.

Nothing else matters before the 35th week except her bank account.
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With rare exceptions I don't think it is any of my business.

I never have, with the rare exception of when a lady made it part of my business.
 
Dragonfly said:
What?

Does a woman have to do that before getting an abortion?
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Nope.

But a man also doesn’t have to gestate a pregnancy, give birth or even be a parent.

The only thing a man can be compelled to do is contribute financially once a child he helped to create and a woman gestated, birthed and has decided to parent takes him to court and sued for child support.

The two aren’t as closely related as some would like to make them be.

(Aka: child support arguments are not equivalent to abortion arguments)
 
samiam5211 said:
I agree. I'm 100% pro choice, but to say that men have no right to an opinion on the topic of abortion is just dumb.
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Men can have an opinion on abortion. But they have no say in a woman's choice regarding her pregnancy. Neither is she under any obligation to solicit the man's opinion.
 
Irredentist said:
Only if the father can conclusively demonstrate to a judge that opting out of his parental responsibilities is in the best interest of his child.
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How would that ever happen? If being personally involved is not in the interests of the child, of course he should move out. And not seek visitation let alone partial custody. But how is he going to prove to a court that not paying child support is in the best interests of the child?
 
Ug make hammer said:
How would that ever happen? If being personally involved is not in the interests of the child, of course he should move out. And not seek visitation let alone partial custody. But how is he going to prove to a court that not paying child support is in the best interests of the child?
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If it's in the child's best interests that he continue paying child support, then he should be required to pay it.
 
samiam5211 said:
I agree. I'm 100% pro choice, but to say that men have no right to an opinion on the topic of abortion is just dumb.
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An opinion can hold weight. I can't see the harm in a man offering positive inducements, like "I will help with the baby, and pay more than my share of household costs, if you choose to give birth." That might be a good dad right there. The woman should think carefully about the prospects of having a good dad available, if she puts off childbirth for a few more years.

Negative inducements like "if you abort, I'm going to leave you" aren't so easy to defend. But they could still help the woman make an informed choice. If that man isn't prepared to wait until she's ready to have a child, it might be time to get an abortion and dump the man. Find another one whose commitment to children is less like ownership ...
 
Irredentist said:
If it's in the child's best interests that he continue paying child support, then he should be required to pay it.
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Indeed. Once there is a child involved, then the courts will act in the best interests of the child.
 
Dragonfly said:
How do you feel about the biological father of the child being able to "opt out" of having any responsibility (financial and any other way) right up until the 35th week?

If she can abort whenever she wants with no say from the father, then shouldn't he be able to abdicate any and all responsibility including financially during that same time period?
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I have stated many times if someone has an abortion because of incest or rape, the father should be ordered to pay all abortion-related expenses and if she chooses to give birth, there is no reason he should be allowed to run away from paying paternity fees.
 
BirdinHand said:
Nope.

But a man also doesn’t have to gestate a pregnancy, give birth or even be a parent.

The only thing a man can be compelled to do is contribute financially once a child he helped to create and a woman gestated, birthed and has decided to parent takes him to court and sued for child support.

The two aren’t as closely related as some would like to make them be.
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My point is simple.

During the same time-frame that a woman can abort her pregnancy for any reason what-so-ever (which to me should at least be until viability), a man should be able to remove himself from any responsibility either financially, or otherwise.

Why isn't that fair?
 
LouC said:
With rare exceptions I don't think it is any of my business.

I never have, with the rare exception of when a lady made it part of my business.
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I assume that lady would be your wife.
 
Patriotic Voter said:
I have stated many times if someone has an abortion because of incest or rape, the father should be ordered to pay all abortion-related expenses and if she chooses to give birth, there is no reason he should be allowed to run away from paying paternity fees.
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My question to you has nothing to do with rape.
 
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