Why cant we be friends?

[mikhail]

The worlds a crazy place israel palastine the congo the list goes on and on the fact is the average person from any of these countries regime whatever could sit down and talk and be fine with each other.

The crazys are always gonna be around but until we break down the bullshit of religion we will never meet people on an even footing.

Lets face its jewish people think they are the special few muslims and christian think everyone should also believe what they believe.These are the things that are holding us back from globalisation. which isnt a bad thing imo
Fact is the majority of populations is made up of moderate who in my definition are non believers who are too scared of dying to give up on the hope of some afterlife.

How many people died in the nameof gods that have been extinct?

IM sorry but the only way we can achieve world peace is if we all act like grown ups.

 

[1069]

I had hoped the internet could help with this; with the way societies dehumanize "the enemy" (whoever that might be) when they're at war.
I thought, if people- globally, from every culture- can talk to each other, can reach out and commune with one another on a variety of levels, the way people do on the internet... then maybe it will be impossible for our governments and/or religious leaders to brainwash us into believing time and again that our supposed "adversaries" are not human, and to time and again put guns in our hands and tell us to kill them because of their nationality, which is after all merely an accident of birth.

But sadly, I was wrong.

I still have hopes that one day, global communication will have this effect.
But it will not be today.

And people are different than I thought they were; freed by the relative anonymity of the internet, people are much more truthful- and much more hateful- than I had ever suspected.
I had heard bigotry and hate before, of course, but I always imagined it was an act; some sort of pretense.
On the internet, I've seen more of it than I ever thought existed, and I know now that it's not a pretense or an act, because there's no motive for that here.

Maybe someday all the hate-filled bigots in every nation will succeed in killing one another off, and then the rest of us can talk.

Forgive my pessimism, but I'm discouraged tonight.
I've got war fatigue; this war has dragged on so long, with no end in sight.
When it started, I was young.
Now I'm not anymore.
When it started, my sons were little boys; now they're nearly draft age.
I just never thought it would go on so long.
Has any war ever gone on this long?
Isn't there some time limit?
Don't wars, like viruses, burn themselves out eventually?
Won't we ever run out of money for this thing?
Who would've thought we had so much money?

I want it to stop now.

 

[talloulou]

The Man He Killed ~Thomas Hardy

"Had he and I but met
By some old ancient inn,
We should have sat us down to wet
Right many a nipperkin!

"But ranged as infantry,
And staring face to face,
I shot at him and he at me,
And killed him in his place.

"I shot him dead because –
Because he was my foe,
Just so – my foe of course he was;
That's clear enough; although

"He thought he'd 'list perhaps,
Off-hand like – just as I –
Was out of work – had sold his traps –
No other reason why.

"Yes; quaint and curious war is!
You shoot a fellow down
You'd treat if met where any bar is,
Or help to half-a-crown."

 

[Iriemon]

The Man He Killed ~Thomas Hardy

"Had he and I but met
By some old ancient inn,
We should have sat us down to wet
Right many a nipperkin!

"But ranged as infantry,
And staring face to face,
I shot at him and he at me,
And killed him in his place.

"I shot him dead because –
Because he was my foe,
Just so – my foe of course he was;
That's clear enough; although

"He thought he'd 'list perhaps,
Off-hand like – just as I –
Was out of work – had sold his traps –
No other reason why.

"Yes; quaint and curious war is!
You shoot a fellow down
You'd treat if met where any bar is,
Or help to half-a-crown."

Tragically sad. Or sadly tragic. I'm not sure which.

 

[cherokee]

I'll be the first to say war sucks, but sometimes you have no choice.
The reasons why differ as greatly as the reasons you are forced to shot
the man in front of you. Its not like you wake up and say to yourself “I wonder whom I’ll kill today” unless you’re a Nazi or some idiot who believes he’s doing Allah’s will.



Talloulou, sometimes it doesn’t go down that way. Maybe you’re just standing guard when some men walk by with weapons on their shoulder. One stops and begins to stare at you then takes his weapon off his shoulder and slowly starts to draw a bead on you.
You shake your head NO but he continues. Without thinking, in the blink of an eye you place a couple of rounds into his chest. Did he really mean to shot you? You’ll never know.

 

[VTA]

The worlds a crazy place israel palastine the congo the list goes on and on the fact is the average person from any of these countries regime whatever could sit down and talk and be fine with each other.

The crazys are always gonna be around but until we break down the bullshit of religion we will never meet people on an even footing.

Lets face its jewish people think they are the special few muslims and christian think everyone should also believe what they believe.These are the things that are holding us back from globalisation. which isnt a bad thing imo
Fact is the majority of populations is made up of moderate who in my definition are non believers who are too scared of dying to give up on the hope of some afterlife.

How many people died in the nameof gods that have been extinct?

IM sorry but the only way we can achieve world peace is if we all act like grown ups.

It's a product of mans nature; religion, race, etc are just pretexts and excuses to behave like apes.

If you whittled society down to a race of people that look like alike, speak alike, think alike and believe alike, one way or the other, superiority would then be based on which phase of the moon you were born under. Or some other such trivial thing.

Take a good look at something as simple as, say, an internet forum.
What is most often the initial reaaction to opposing opinions? Ire. Degradation. Not 100% of the time, but more often than a level-headed approach to maybe learn something from someone who thinks differently than yourself.

Insecurity; if enough people think like me, I will be validated.
Be it a religion, anti-religion, political sentiiment, etc, the overall theme of seems to be mock or convert. Not co-exist and learn.

The problem lies with lack of reponsibility, not bodiless ideals that really have no physical impetus to make someone do something they don't already want to do.

 

[WI Crippler]

I think in regards to the internet being the tool that brings people together, as 1069 had hoped it would, is really more of a double edged sword. Certainley I think it is a great tool for studying other cultures, and learning things you never could have, from people you never would have met.
But conversely, it allows those with hatred or evil in their hearts (terrorists, racists, pedophiles, rapists, etc.......) to consolidate, and validate their views, because now they do not feel so small and isolated.

 

[Iriemon]

I'll be the first to say war sucks, but sometimes you have no choice.

I'm not accusing you here personally, Cherokee -- I don't know your views on things.

But I think lots of folks think war is totally cool -- though they will never (or few will) actually come out and admit that because it is not PC. But I think lots of folks get their jollies see all the cool military toys in actions, the bombs bursting in air, videos of weapons hitting, and just the transference of superiority they feel when the US dishes out a can of whoop *** on another nation that dared not to toe our line. I mean, what's not cool about seeing a pair of F/A-18s on a bombing run or an M-1 blasting over a dune?

In fact, I think there are a *lot* of people like that, particular on the right side of the house.

 

[WI Crippler]

I'm not accusing you here personally, Cherokee -- I don't know your views on things.

But I think lots of folks think war is totally cool -- though they will never (or few will) actually come out and admit that because it is not PC. But I think lots of folks get their jollies see all the cool military toys in actions, the bombs bursting in air, videos of weapons hitting, and just the transference of superiority they feel when the US dishes out a can of whoop *** on another nation that dared not to toe our line. I mean, what's not cool about seeing a pair of F/A-18s on a bombing run or an M-1 blasting over a dune?

In fact, I think there are a *lot* of people like that, particular on the right side of the house.

The people who think war is "cool" have never been.

The people who think war is "unneccessary" have also never been.

 

[cherokee]

The people who think war is "cool" have never been.
The people who think war is "unneccessary" have also never been.

How very true...
but......

Seeing a C130 unleashing "Puff" (I know I'm showing my age) on a militant position with them never knowing where it came from or the Iraqi column of tanks hit by the newest CBU-97. The first 2/3 of the column was completely destroyed while the rest immediately surrendered that was fooking cool….


Iriemon, sometimes you just cant talk your problems out.

It boils down to having the right leadership who knows how and when to use our Military. You can call war evil but in today’s world it’s a necessary evil. Until we (as in every human on this planet) evolve past this it’s not going away any time soon.
My three little rules of war.
1. Don’t go unless you have too.
2. If you do go, Do whatever you have to do to completely destroy your enemy. That means you unleash hell.
3. No matter how careful you are and how hard you try to avoid it people are going to die.

What do you think about this?
Wouldn’t you give you left nut to go back in time and put Hitler in your cross hairs? Or command 400 Marines in Rwanda during its genocide? I know I would.

 

[WI Crippler]

How very true...
but......

Seeing a C130 unleashing "Puff" (I know I'm showing my age) on a militant position with them never knowing where it came from or the Iraqi column of tanks hit by the newest CBU-97. The first 2/3 of the column was completely destroyed while the rest immediately surrendered that was fooking cool….


Iriemon, sometimes you just cant talk your problems out.

It boils down to having the right leadership who knows how and when to use our Military. You can call war evil but in today’s world it’s a necessary evil. Until we (as in every human on this planet) evolve past this it’s not going away any time soon.
My three little rules of war.
1. Don’t go unless you have too.
2. If you do go, Do whatever you have to do to completely destroy your enemy. That means you unleash hell.
3. No matter how careful you are and how hard you try to avoid it people are going to die.

What do you think about this?
Wouldn’t you give you left nut to go back in time and put Hitler in your cross hairs? Or command 400 Marines in Rwanda during its genocide? I know I would.

Well to the first part, there are certainley some aspects of combat that are indeed, awe-inspiring, when you see the tactics and deployment of fire being directed at your enemy. But war itself, is not "cool", nor should it be desired to do those things unless you need to.

 

[cherokee]

Well to the first part, there are certainley some aspects of combat that are indeed, awe-inspiring, when you see the tactics and deployment of fire being directed at your enemy. But war itself, is not "cool", nor should it be desired to do those things unless you need to.

No in itself its not cool.
But in some cases like Rwanda I personaly would have enjoyed it as demented as that sounds.

 

[WI Crippler]

No in itself its not cool.
But in some cases like Rwanda I personaly would have enjoyed it as demented as that sounds.

Well, they re-wire us a little differently in the Marines. Its all good though, because we won't be sitting under cover, crying about how we miss our mommy when rounds start flying overhead, or when SCUD sirens sound.

True story, where I was, we had SCUD sirens sound and there were Air Force people on the other side of the base. Well a few Air Force members were in the area, when it sounded. Marines were in the bunker, gas masks and NBC suits on instantly. The airforce people were completely stunned, and couldn't even get their gear on. One guy refused to put his mask on because he was hyperventilating, so we grabbed his *** and forced the mask on him, and got him squared away. He was really losing it, but we talked to him and made him answer some questions to get his breathing normal. It wasn't even direct fire, and these people were losing it, and meanwhile we are all telling jokes about how we hoped these suits were really gonna work, because we didn't want blisters all over our *******s, since it would hurt when you wiped.

 

[cherokee]

Well, they re-wire us a little differently in the Marines. Its all good though, because we won't be sitting under cover, crying about how we miss our mommy when rounds start flying overhead, or when SCUD sirens sound.

OOH RAH!
First to Fight...:twisted:

True story, where I was, we had SCUD sirens sound and there were Air Force people on the other side of the base. Well a few Air Force members were in the area, when it sounded. Marines were in the bunker, gas masks and NBC suits on instantly. The airforce people were completely stunned, and couldn't even get their gear on. One guy refused to put his mask on because he was hyperventilating, so we grabbed his *** and forced the mask on him, and got him squared away. He was really losing it, but we talked to him and made him answer some questions to get his breathing normal. It wasn't even direct fire, and these people were losing it, and meanwhile we are all telling jokes about how we hoped these suits were really gonna work, because we didn't want blisters all over our *******s, since it would hurt when you wiped.

god-damn that was funny.......:rofl

 

[Cephus]

I think in regards to the internet being the tool that brings people together, as 1069 had hoped it would, is really more of a double edged sword. Certainley I think it is a great tool for studying other cultures, and learning things you never could have, from people you never would have met.
But conversely, it allows those with hatred or evil in their hearts (terrorists, racists, pedophiles, rapists, etc.......) to consolidate, and validate their views, because now they do not feel so small and isolated.

Exactly, I've found that the net has allowed people with odd views, etc. to find others out there and not only form a community (which isn't necessarily a bad thing), but to demand acceptance for their views because they suddenly feel empowered because of their community.

Sorry, but I'm really not that interested in recognizing people who like to dress up in animal costumes and rape each other with rubber dog phalluses as normal.

 

[talloulou]

I'm not accusing you here personally, Cherokee -- I don't know your views on things.

But I think lots of folks think war is totally cool -- though they will never (or few will) actually come out and admit that because it is not PC. But I think lots of folks get their jollies see all the cool military toys in actions, the bombs bursting in air, videos of weapons hitting, and just the transference of superiority they feel when the US dishes out a can of whoop *** on another nation that dared not to toe our line. I mean, what's not cool about seeing a pair of F/A-18s on a bombing run or an M-1 blasting over a dune?

In fact, I think there are a *lot* of people like that, particular on the right side of the house.

I don't believe that for a minute. You're basically saying lots of people think war is fun, especially on the right. Get the fvck out of here!

 

[talloulou]

No in itself its not cool.
But in some cases like Rwanda I personaly would have enjoyed it as demented as that sounds.

That's different. You're not saying war in general is fun so much as it sounds like you have pride and know the feeling of being proud when you're absolutely certain you're doing the right thing. I imagine it's much like the feeling you get when you save a nerd from a bully but on a much grander scale. You feel good because you feel like you're doing good. That's completely different from just enjoying war and getting excited about which peoples you are going to use your toys on next which is closer to what Iriemon was implying.

 

[Cephus]

I don't believe that for a minute. You're basically saying lots of people think war is fun, especially on the right. Get the fvck out of here!

You have to remember that most of the people who think war is fun are those who have never been in one.

 

[1069]

I don't believe that for a minute. You're basically saying lots of people think war is fun, especially on the right. Get the fvck out of here!

I doubt anyone finds war "fun".
Some teenage boys might anticipate war being fun, but I'm sure once they actually get therre, they find that it doesn't meet up to their expectations, and is at best tedious and uncomfortable and at worst scary.
I do not doubt for a minute, however, that many people- especially those on the Right- find war advantageous: useful and profitable.

 

[Iriemon]

The people who think war is "cool" have never been.

"I love it. God help me, I do love it so. I love it more than my life"

But that would exclude about 0.1% of Americans.

 

[Iriemon]

I don't believe that for a minute. You're basically saying lots of people think war is fun, especially on the right. Get the fvck out of here!

War sells big time. Kids play with little soldiers, millions play wargame, war is in movies, and a regular feature on the nightly news complete with splashy effects. Look at those F-15s flying over the stadium! Many wouldn't it be cool to see those in action?

War is fascinating. The ultimate man vs. man and man vs. machine. War machines represent the cutting edge of technology. We spend hundreds of billions to have the coolest stuff.

ME policy? Let's go kick some ***! Yahoo!

 

[talloulou]

War sells big time. Kids play with little soldiers, millions play wargame, war is in movies, and a regular feature on the nightly news complete with splashy effects. Look at those F-15s flying over the stadium! Many wouldn't it be cool to see those in action?

War is fascinating. The ultimate man vs. man and man vs. machine. War machines represent the cutting edge of technology. We spend hundreds of billions to have the coolest stuff.

ME policy? Let's go kick some ***! Yahoo!

If we were just in to playing with toys and kicking a$$ this war would've been over awhile ago. If we just liked blowing crap up and taking people out Iraq could've been done in a week.

 

[Iriemon]

How very true...
but......

Seeing a C130 unleashing "Puff" (I know I'm showing my age) on a militant position with them never knowing where it came from or the Iraqi column of tanks hit by the newest CBU-97. The first 2/3 of the column was completely destroyed while the rest immediately surrendered that was fooking cool….

Iriemon, sometimes you just cant talk your problems out.

It boils down to having the right leadership who knows how and when to use our Military. You can call war evil but in today’s world it’s a necessary evil. Until we (as in every human on this planet) evolve past this it’s not going away any time soon.
My three little rules of war.
1. Don’t go unless you have too.
2. If you do go, Do whatever you have to do to completely destroy your enemy. That means you unleash hell.
3. No matter how careful you are and how hard you try to avoid it people are going to die.

What do you think about this?
Wouldn’t you give you left nut to go back in time and put Hitler in your cross hairs? Or command 400 Marines in Rwanda during its genocide? I know I would.

I don't disagree with anything you say, Cherokee, except to the extent your rules seem to suggest that civilian casualties are irrelevant and therefore shouldn't be considered in the equation or the strategy. Your rules suggest that position. I disagree on that basis, especially in situations where we are engaged it what is supposed to be at least in part a humanitarian aid type of mission like Iraq.

 

[Iriemon]

If we were just in to playing with toys and kicking a$$ this war would've been over awhile ago. If we just liked blowing crap up and taking people out Iraq could've been done in a week.

And that was pretty much the way the neocons sold it to us. We were going go in and kick some ***, maybe take a couple days, weeks, not months, spend maybe $50 billion tops, and then relish in the glory while the Iraqis covered us with roses.

 

[talloulou]

And that was pretty much the way the neocons sold it to us. We were going go in and kick some ***, maybe take a couple days, weeks, not months, spend maybe $50 billion tops, and then relish in the glory while the Iraqis covered us with roses.

Please show me a quote where Bush said it would take a few day, weeks, ect.... Cost 50 billion tops and anything about roses! If he ever said anything even remotely like that I didn't hear it.