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Who is to blame for the debt, Congress or the President?

Neither one. The voters are.
 
Uh, clearly it's all these low wage earners! They just don't MAKE ENOUGH! The lazy ****s! If they just made more money, we wouldn't HAVE this problem!







In other news, I agree with the above. I can't blame a guy for giving us what we scream for. I ask and then vote for a turd in a nice suit, I GET a turd in a nice suit. Just one of those things, you know?
 
csbrown28 said:
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all of them. One can veto by not signing.. others are just shills. End of the day we are in the mess we are because masses actually believe we are a democracy.
 
I blame a system that has been corrupted by the influence of money and the idea that we are "individuals" in a nation that is increasingly unaware how our fortunes are in some sense linked.
 
Declan said:
Neither one. The voters are.
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That is a curious answer, because whenever I go to the polls, I have three choices, well, three choices that matter....

I can vote Democrat, Republican or just not vote, and something tells me, that none of those choices would improve things much. As a voter, I'm not really sure how "I" can change things in any effective way. The only people that have time, that is, can walk away from their jobs without seriously affecting their personal fiances are the wealthy...>They have time AND money. So it's a very catchy thing to say that it's the "voters" fault, but I'm not sure, in this day and age what any voter can realistically do about it.

I'd really the the option to cast my ballot for neither and while it's not realistic to put no one in office, I think if the "nether" vote exceeds 50%?, 60%?....On the next ballot there should be a third party subsidized, for at least one year, if not more, by the Gov......At least that way, there is a real possibility of change.
 
I thought that congress had the 'power of the purse strings'. That being the case, and I recall Nixon didn't want to spend what congress wanted to spend, took him to court and made him spend it.

So, seems to me quite reasonable that congress and their spending be blamed for the debt.
 

A false choice is still a false choice. I cannot recall many elections where I did not have other choices. Whether or not you choose to fall into their trap is up to you. Vote third party, write in, start a third party, stop buying into the endless redherrings, hold your representatives at all levels accountable, don't vote, run for office. Being in Virginia you do not get to write-in for President, but you can for any other office.
 
csbrown28 said:
I blame a system that has been corrupted by the influence of money and the idea that we are "individuals" in a nation that is increasingly unaware how our fortunes are in some sense linked.
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If we were not influenced by resources, we would not make deals, and, there would be no war. our cells need fuel and to rest. this is why we need to make deals, eventually, at an economic level between various degrees of 'business.' if you were to be a communist, you would share what you have in a utopian society. this requires a high moral code, as it is easy to abuse power. we need money to represent resources - it is the 'image' of things we want.
 

Again, I ask, what difference does it make? Vote for Ross Perot? Ron Paul, run myself? None of these options matter because it's the system that is broken and everyone knows it. The two dominant parties in this country receive 95+% of all money. You'd have a better chance of shoving poop back into a cow then you would of electing someone that isn't D or R in a presidential election in this country. And given, as I said, the only people that can really afford to spend their time, energy and resources trying to manipulate the system are those in the top few percent who ironically HAVE spent their time energy and resources to build the very government you see before you. I'd again say that it's the system that broken, not the voters. Blaming the voters is exactly what those in power and those they represent want us all to do.
 

 
csbrown28 said:
This is just a symptom of the influence money has on our government, no?
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You got it. Amazing how few people understand that, the saying "follow the money" applied.

If money were removed from the equation, there wouldn't be any politicians. Just MO.
 
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No it isnt.

We need to get rid of democracy. It is destructive and dangerous.

Democracy produced Hitler you know. Do we really want that to happen again?
 
csbrown28 said:
I blame a system that has been corrupted by the influence of money and the idea that we are "individuals" in a nation that is increasingly unaware how our fortunes are in some sense linked.
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Influence of money from whom? Both sides are awash in cash from both sides of the political spectrum. So arguing money is the problem is ignoring the real problem. American people (voters) are stupid. 100% completely stupid. They know very little about current events, highly ignorant of economics, and better yet.. love propaganda and slogans. If it's longer then 5 words, they'll forget it. Most believe US is a democracy and political leaders live off that idea. When voters wake up, educate themselves and stop buying the propaganda.. they'll find US is a Constitutional Republic and they've been getting screwed for years. That's when you will see change.. and not the "change" you want.

But that will never happen in the US because everybody lives off the guberment's teet.
 
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Actually you always have more then "3 choices". You can actually write in as well. Or better yet.. you can take part in the primary portion of the election process like the faux Tea Party did a few times. But again, csbrown you are proving what I posted in previous post. You think you have limited options, you haven't explored the idea of actually doing what really happens at the local level.. Canvass and promote a write in. It takes effort. But at the end of the day it's an option most Americans don't know about.

Hell, I voted for myself in November and will for the rest of my life out of principle.
 



Let's see. they buy and sell their votes. If you want something done in your area you have to vote a certain way on certain bills, and all of them benefit from any federal spending. So, as congress buys votes with your money, the president has the option to veto, but as we have seen, progressives don't accept constitutional law.
 

Or you can quit bitching and run yourself, work for a candidate, or form your own party.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPysuSaF4iA
 
austrianecon said:
Influence of money from whom? Both sides are awash in cash from both sides of the political spectrum. So arguing money is the problem is ignoring the real problem.
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Seems to me this statement proves my point....Not sure how or why it matters if "both" sides are manipulated, as if they cancel each other out. If anything it magnifies the problems of the influence of money.

The power of money has surpassed peoples desires to "wake up" and "become educated".
 
Fearandloathing said:
Or you can quit bitching and run yourself, work for a candidate, or form your own party.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPysuSaF4iA
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Because there aren't any candidates that represent my interests, probably because any candidate that did, would never get elected. As far as running, well given the chances of success being near Zero, I choose to encourage change in other ways.
 
I love CGP Grey videos. Until people realize that the debt and deficit just all the sudden didnt magically appear with Obama, then we can move forward on how to start to bring it down...
 
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