While we were distracted Zelensky quietly extended his dictatorship!

[soap box]

Let me repeat: there is a thousand year history there which explains the the tensions and antagonisms of the various ethnic groups in the Balkans and eastern Europe. You narrow it to Putin- who was only born in WWII- so you dont have to address Russian claims






You are the one demanding referendums. Do you have one to back up the claim that the coup was the will of the Ukrainian people? Do you have one for what was the will of the eastern Oblasts?

You dont have any. You are just try to legitimise post facto





Since Nato/Eu never conducted elections before their assaults on Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan, why dont you have a beef with that?






It is not your call






That is too amusing for someone who endorsed the 2014 coup





Maybe I can speak for myself. The people of the eastern oblasts already objected to the 2014 coup in Kyiv. There were anti Maidan riots all over the eastern oblasts. They were attacked and brutally suppressed by the goons from Kyiv. All of that was in the news. Which you pretend ignorance of.

You don't understand anything I've written. Good night.
edit- You never reconciled why you want democracy for ethnic Russians and the eastern oblasts, but you support Putin. That's a contradiction.

 

[Lovebug]

An independent country defending itself.
The horror.

 

[Cosmo]

The Ukrainian Constitution is trash. Its not worth the paper written upon.

What Ukraine is is Zelensky's personal outfit.

Nice non-answers. That what the metodichka says to do when you were debated into a corner?

Its not about Putin. The ethnic divide in the region that today comprises Ukraine goes back as far as Tsarist Russia; centuries before Putin was born. And it will be there long after Putin is gone.

Funny how the "ethnic divide" only requires foreign intervention when it's Russia's neighbor and not when it's Chechnya.

The people in the eastern Oblasts have already made their desires known

How would anyone know? Russia censors and suppresses like it's 1984. But don't take my word for it!

https://news.mail.ru/society/67054358/?from=swap&swap=2

Nato is already at war with Russia

No, you have it all wrong! There's no war and Russia hasn't even invaded anyone!

Russia has not invaded Ukraine and will not invade any other country â Lavrov

According to the Russian top diplomat, evidence indicate that Ukraine planned to attack the Donetsk and Lugansk Peopleâs Republics already this month

tass.com

You can exchange Hitler for Augusto Pinochet, or anyother Putchist. You will endorse any coup as a democratic process provided it takes place in Kyiv and is anti Russian

Looks like it's Russia that exchanged Hitler for Putin. They really liked him during World War II and even became his military ally! Now Putin is waging a major war of conquest in Europe, so the spirit of Hitler lives on in Putin! The spirit, not the brains: Hitler didn't spend 11 years stuck in Poland.

Putin even ripped off their Volksdeutsche excuse for the invasion:

Volksdeutsche - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Nazi propaganda used the existence of ethnic Germans who they called Volksdeutsche in foreign lands before and during the war, to help justify the aggression of Nazi Germany. The annexation of Poland was presented as necessary to protect the ethnic German minorities there.

https://tass.com/politics/1969607

Russia to defend rights of Russian speakers in Ukraine to resolve crisis, says Lavrov​

Respect for the Russian language, the great culture created on its basis, and the people who speak it are very important for Russia, the Russian foreign minister said

 

[Juin]

Nice non-answers. That what the metodichka says to do when you were debated into a corner?

Tooting your own horn, ey ?

Funny how the "ethnic divide" only requires foreign intervention when it's Russia's neighbor and not when it's Chechnya.

It is a plague in the whole region: Russia, Ukraine, Romania, Hungary...

How would anyone know? Russia censors and suppresses like it's 1984. But don't take my word for it!

The sentiments of the eastern oblasts were well known back in 2014. Not sure what you talking about. In 2014 the eastern Oblasts and Crimea were part of Ukraine and events there were well covered by western media

 

[Juin]

You don't understand anything I've written. Good night.

I understand everything you have written.. You have been very clear. Russians in Ukraine have no rights in your book. They are non people. Only the Bandera guys in Kyiv count.

edit- You never reconciled why you want democracy for ethnic Russians and the eastern oblasts, but you support Putin. That's a contradiction.

I cannot reconcile what is your own creation. I have only backed the right of the eastern oblasts to self determination. A right you have done everything to pretend it does not exist

 

[anatta]

The US held elections during the Civil War. The US also conducted elections under far more dangerous conditions in Iraq and Afghanistan

FDR ran in 1944

A huge part of the US was outside the control of the US during the Civil War. Elections were not abolished like in Ukraine

Z has become the virtual supreme leader with so many non-elections.. Uk is so corrupt they are gonna have tough time switching back to "democracy"

 

[anatta]

I understand everything you have written.. You have been very clear. Russians in Ukraine have no rights in your book. They are non people. Only the Bandera guys in Kyiv count.

we saw that in local support for the Russian separatists and easy acceptance of the Little Green Men as the force in charge
Ukraine never was "1 country" - the east has economic, language, and cultural ties to Russia

I cannot reconcile what is your own creation. I have only backed the right of the eastern oblasts to self determination. A right you have done everything to pretend it does not exist

Ukraine could work if if the oblasts has autonomy under a federated government. Instead Kyiv has always kept the said areas under it's thumb.

 

[Cosmo]

Tooting your own horn, ey ?





It is a plague in the whole region: Russia, Ukraine, Romania, Hungary...





The sentiments of the eastern oblasts were well known back in 2014. Not sure what you talking about. In 2014 the eastern Oblasts and Crimea were part of Ukraine and events there were well covered by western media

Yes, Russia invaded and ran their "referendum." Then did the same thing in Zaporozhye a few years later, annexing it without ever controlling the city. Nobody buys Russian bullshit.

 

[soap box]

I understand everything you have written.. You have been very clear. Russians in Ukraine have no rights in your book. They are non people. Only the Bandera guys in Kyiv count.

That's backwards and you completely misunderstood what I've been telling you this entire day.

I cannot reconcile what is your own creation. I have only backed the right of the eastern oblasts to self determination. A right you have done everything to pretend it does not exist

You wrote:
" I have only backed the right of the eastern oblasts to self determination. "


That's the opposite of supporting Putin. Putin will not let them vote if they are annexed and he will not enforce a ceasefire to allow the eastern oblasts to vote in a Ukranian election. Putin will not let them have self determination. He won't even let them really vote.

Who gets to choose? Putin wants to choose otherwise he would make it a fair and transparent vote.




So which is it?

• Do you want self determination in the eastern oblasts?

OR

• Do you want Putin to succeed?

These will not happen at the same time and "both" is not a choice. Saying both are true is a self contradiction.

So which is it?

 

[Cosmo]

I understand everything you have written.. You have been very clear. Russians in Ukraine have no rights in your book. They are non people.

Not in the part of Ukraine Russia controls, anyway. Those guys are only good for cannon fodder and getting looted by Putin's minions. But don't take my word for it:

Prigozhin lashes out at Russian military leadership, says invasion of Ukraine should not have happened

The press service of the founder of the Wagner PMC, Yevgeny Prigozhin, published a part of his monologue on Telegram. The head of the mercenaries again sharply criticized the Russian military leadership and made several statements, that do not coincide with the official Russian position...

uawire.org

Prigozhin also said that after Russia's occupation of part of the Donbas in 2014, the Kremlin and the FSB looted it. "The Donbas was a great place where money was split," Prigozhin said. The strikes of the Ukrainian forces have always beeb directed at the positions of the Russian troops.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Russians in Ukraine have no rights in your book. They are non people.

Ethnic Russian Ukrainian citizens enjoy all of the rights of Ukrainian citizens.

For propaganda purposes, you continually posit that ethnicity trumps citizenship. But ethnicity =/= citizenship. There are 1,258,635 ethnic Ukrainians in Canada who are not Ukrainian citizens.

If ethnicity worked how you wish it worked, Russia would be within her rights to invade Brighton Beach, Brooklyn which is heavy with ethnic Russian American citizens.

 

[Cosmo]

Ethnic Russian Ukrainian citizens enjoy all of the rights of Ukrainian citizens.

For propaganda purposes, you continually posit that ethnicity trumps citizenship. But ethnicity =/= citizenship. There are 1,258,635 ethnic Ukrainians in Canada who are not Ukrainian citizens.

If ethnicity worked how you wish it worked, Russia would be within her rights to invade Brighton Beach, Brooklyn which is heavy with ethnic Russian American citizens.

Zelensky's native language is Russian and he has even spoken it as President.



If there is any stigma in Ukraine where it comes to the Russian language, it is probably the result of Russia's actions. Zelensky is also Jewish, so the whole "Nazis" and "anti-Russian" narrative is about as dumb as it gets. Frankly they'd have been better off accusing Ukraine of being run by reptilians who want to revive Cthulhu. At least then there wouldn't be any glaring contradictions.

In addition, Russia actually does what it accuses Ukraine of doing:

Putin signs law on Russian language and use of foreign words

Before, it was also against the law to use words and phrases that didnât conform with the norms of the contemporary literary Russian language, including obscenities

tass.com

They also have Rusich, a military group, that's led by a Nazi. No, not a neo-Nazi, a self-proclaimed Nazi. Though that isn't even the first example.


(the late Uktyn of Prigozhin's Wagner Group)

Wagner got billions of Russian government funds, while also being nonexistent (both claims made by Putin).

https://tass.com/politics/1646675

https://tass.com/defense/1639345

So no, Russia has no problem with Nazis, no problem with being a totalitarian dictatorship, and no problem with language laws. And it DEFINITELY has no problem with killing Russians and killed more of them than Ukraine ever could have had Russia done nothing.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Ukraine is a thousand times safer than Iraq was when elections were held under the Americans

[Citation needed]

 

[Roadvirus]

Every human being is entitled a defense. Even you . Putin as well

Putzin isn't human.

He's the devil's spawn. An inhuman, dirty, evil piece of shit that crawled up from Hell and brought with it nothing but death.

 

[Roadvirus]

I understand everything you have written.. You have been very clear. Russians in Ukraine have no rights in your book. They are non people

They have rights.

If they don't like living as "Ukrainians", then they have the right to board a plane or train to Russia.

 

[Fledermaus]

I understand everything you have written.. You have been very clear. Russians in Ukraine have no rights in your book. They are non people. Only the Bandera guys in Kyiv count.

I cannot reconcile what is your own creation. I have only backed the right of the eastern oblasts to self determination. A right you have done everything to pretend it does not exist

Russian in Ukraine are invaders.

Ukrainians of Russian ancestry are Ukrainians.