Guy Incognito
DP Veteran
- Joined
- May 14, 2010
- Messages
- 11,216
- Reaction score
- 2,846
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Libertarian
Meaningless strawman. A comparable situation would be a doctor performing IVF for a couple where both parents are known carriers of Tay Sachs. The government cannot reasonably prevent two people two from having sex. It damn well can prevent doctors from knowingly performing treatments that are harmful.
Well everyone of your cells has all the dna information to make the entire you. However most cells only have a portion of that DNA active so heart cells only make heart cells, lung cells only make lung cells. I have no clue how that actually works but thats what I hear. I agree to be able to grow stem cells and control which parts of the DNA activate is very challenging.
To grow entier humans to harvest parts crosses even my moral boundaries, hibernated or not, and I'm a fairly open minded person. Right now you have to have no moral compass what-so-ever to think that's acceptable.
how in the hell does on group stem cell research with cloning? LMAO :lamo
In 1972 I joined the association for the proper application of science. Our main objective was to adamently oppose the use of cloning for reproducing "famous" humans or the harvesting of human clones. I have never once waivered from that. We support stem cell research and simliar studies but when it comes to harvesting cloned humans or animals for that matter my answer is NO. I was surprised alittle by a survey recently that said that 78% of academic scientists support this position. Why so low?
???? what does this say I could not understand it.
Caring more about the life of an animal
than the life of a human is morally repugnant.
LOL! :lamo
me neither, I dont know what I did.:shock:
it should say:
how in the hell do you group stem cell research with cloning a human being.
I think you missed it JC. What we are discussing is the ability to use stem cell resarch to heal or replace certain parts of the body which apparently is being worked on. the idea stem cells being able to recreate a human is nonsense. Too many variables.
Organs and tissues = Probably yes
People= no
What are you talking about?
missed what?
Im talking about the OP, the OP, groups stem cell research and human cloning together in a voting black, thats nonsense.
You can think what you want about what you think my views are but if you follow the word it is NOT your place to judge me. You absolutist views are getting old quick. The world is not all black and white and I assure you not that as simple as you make it out.
Sorry I thought you were talking to me? My bad.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but there is no room in this life for shades of gray thinking about morality. That kind of thinking is what has led us to the ruination we are in as a society. There are indeed moral absolutes, and the sanctity of human life is absolute. To protect an animal when a human could benefit from the death of that animal is monstrous.
It's not a straw man, you are simply being logically inconsistent. It shouldn't do either.
Which sort of judges or Supreme Court justices would be more sympathetic to human cloning, stem cell research, or other sorts of bioethics issues? Liberal judges or conservative judges?
What do you all think?
In 1972 I joined the association for the proper application of science. Our main objective was to adamently oppose the use of cloning for reproducing "famous" humans or the harvesting of human clones. I have never once waivered from that. We support stem cell research and simliar studies but when it comes to harvesting cloned humans or animals for that matter my answer is NO. I was surprised alittle by a survey recently that said that 78% of academic scientists support this position. Why so low?
Which sort of judges or Supreme Court justices would be more sympathetic to human cloning, stem cell research, or other sorts of bioethics issues? Liberal judges or conservative judges?
What do you all think?
who is paying for the stuff?
Probably cause they have positions like mine. Mine is I have no problem cloning animals or at least their parts especially if its for food production. I have no problems with cloning human parts or whole humans. There is only one caviet. That is this, to clone either human or animal they must have permission from the owners. Humans own themselves, and humans own animals. I have friends who are getting ready to do a start up to clone animal skin for use in leather goods in hopes of perfecting the process for human skin grafts for burn victims, they want to licence the printing procedure for their first products. They see a lot of possibilities besides medical with these sorts of tecniques. One of them even wants to make real fur jackets without having to wack the mink they get the fur from he thinks mink skins can be cloned fur and all. He seems to think that PETA will go for it and help promote it even. I dont know about that but you never know. One of their goals was to make boneless beef in the lab that has all the nutrition flavor and everything without the steer and hormone injections. I am not so sure that would sell, but hey its meat without the guilt of wacking steers so who knows.
Being simplistic heres the issue and please REALLY think about this. First cloning doesn't start out as a full grown person or animal. it starts out as an infant. You have to wait until it grows to accomplish your objective. Second once the cloned human becomes "conscious" it is a thinking creature with its own rights and so your "agreement" or license" with the original is no longer valid and useless. Once it is "born" it becomes a person and is covered by the laws of this country including the 14 amendment so harming it becomes a felony. And depending on the state could result in a death sentence. This would be true in any civilized country on this earth.
As far as the animals go. They believe it or not have some protection especially if it is a wild or feral animal. Maybe you could get a licence but having worked in the trade for years, its not a easy as you think. Things such as mink, weasel and other feral animal farms/ranches are very heavily regulated and inspected regularly. the livestock industry not so much. But the point is you and/or your friends are dreaming the impossible dream the technology out there is not cheap and the road to doing this legally is years in the making plus the time and energy spend waiting for your clone to get where you want it to go.
So if your friends are millionaires and are just entering college they MIGHT have a chance with the animal part but not likely.
the cost is prohibitive, the training necessary is extensive, the regulatory and licensing is restrictive (for a good reason) and the pitfalls are endless.
Remember once a cloned human reaches conscousness its protected as a person not a clone.
As far as the human clone goes I doubt it will ever come to pass in an industrial way. That said, I think that as long as the base material is considerd property of the individual it comes from then cloning should not be a problem. At least a wide spead one anyhow. You would be right if they grew a full clone. However if they didnt then it is a differernt story. Its still property so long as it doesnt achieve consiousness. which means basically theres no brain.
As far as what I was talking for the proposed venture, all the animals would provide would be genetic base material. There might be some live animals but they would be kept for genetic sampling. They would probaly be rotated with ranches to provide a variety of samples. There would be no mink ranch, or steer ranch. They would be kept in a lab setting for access to their genetic material. My friends want to litterally print animal skins and meats. Its not cloning the actuall animals. Why do that when you can just breed them? The technology to do this is expensive, just not as much as you think. The main expense is going to be working the bugs out of the manufacturing process. They want to do leather goods first and get experiance with that process before they move on to the medical skin graft stage. they eventually want to be able grow vat meats as a precurser to growing organs and replacement parts for people. Its acrawl before you walk before you run thing. The heavy regs are gona come from the FDA on the medical and food sides. The leather not so much. One of their cooler ideas was to litterally grow custom fit virtually seamless leather garmets. Imagine a pair of custom fit leather gloves with No seams in them. Or a jacket. I thought that was a cool idea. Not is it cool, its PETA friendly.
I am NOT sure that judges should be involved in this one.
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