When they die do they go to Heaven?

[RAMOSS]

Whoa! WWJD?
I was asking out of pure curiosity, you know, that thing God endowed human beings with?

Chill, ok? I was not intending to be confrontational. I'm sorry you were triggered.

Again, do as Jesus would...

much love

Just pointing out, chasing people and turning over tables is not out of the question.

 

[Sweden]

We are our brains. When they are gone so are we. So no one is going anywhere.

 

[tosca1]

Here is a good explanation:

Paul wrote in Romans 2:12: “For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law.” In his commentary on the book of Romans, R.C.H. Lenski discussed Paul’s statement about those who “perish without the law” when he wrote:

The only difference will be that those without the law will merely perish without the law, while those with law will be judged by means of law—two routes that lead to the same goal. Justice will be prominent in both instances; for the Judge will not apply law to those who ended as nothing but sinners without using anything like real law—that would be unfair. Nor will he need law in the case of these—they merely perish as the sinners that they are. The only fair thing in the case of others who made law their boast will be that the Judge uses this means when he pronounces judgment on them; and the fact that this judgment will be one of condemnation is plain: “they did sin” exactly as those “did sin” of whom Paul just said “they will perish” (1961, p. 158, emp. added).

When people are lost, it is due to their having sinned against God. Isaiah wrote:

Behold, Jehovah’s hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: but your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, so that he will not hear (59:1-2).

Boa and Moody commented:

Sin is a universal human condition (1 Kings 8:46; Ps. 51:5, Romans 3:9,23; 1 John 1:8), and it causes a breach between man and God (Isa. 59:2). Sin leads to death (Romans 6:23), and the wrath of God abides on all who are separate from Christ (John 3:18,36).

All have sinned, and those who have not been “justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus” (Romans 3:24) are under divine condemnation (Romans 3:10-20; 5:16-19) and must stand before God in judgment, because apart from Christ we are enemies of God (Romans 5:10)....

.......People are not lost because they have not heard. They are lost because they are sinners.


We die because of disease, not because of ignorance of the proper cure (1982, p. 147, emp. added).

Apologetics Press - Will Those Who Have Never Heard the Gospel Be Lost?

 

[gfm7175]

If you are genuinely interested in knowing, i will tell you.
Just understand the "complete Bible" as you say is not one volume all bound together.
It is a collection of books sorted together to make a common canon of the story of Christianity.
First pieced together by Constantine and Christian scholars from all over the known world.
They made the first "Bible", but it was not just one bound book but a selection of books, letters, and writings.

Great. Can you link me to this "complete Bible" then? I honestly am interested to see what you are talking about when you say "a collection of books sorted together to make a common canon of the story of Christianity". Are there more inspired words of God that I am missing out on beyond what is recorded in my KJV/ESV/NIV, etc. Bibles?

 

[PleasantValley]

Great. Can you link me to this "complete Bible" then? I honestly am interested to see what you are talking about when you say "a collection of books sorted together to make a common canon of the story of Christianity". Are there more inspired words of God that I am missing out on beyond what is recorded in my KJV/ESV/NIV, etc. Bibles?

Rather than have you attempt to thumb through several books, you can get more from these in a shorter period of time.

https://www.amazon.com/Banned-Bible...8499276&sr=8-1&keywords=banned+from+the+bible

and this part 2

https://www.amazon.com/Banned-Bible...rd_wg=ubIZi&psc=1&refRID=JH1XWR2SKG789HM1PHED

The history channel did a very good job on this, and then it is easy to find which individual banned books you would like to read.

Yes, there is much more to God's holy word than what has become presently accepted as the Bible.
Did you ever notice some "plot holes" in some of the Bible's stories? That does not mean what we have now was not the divine inspired word, it just means it is not all of it. I wanted to read the "rest of the story" as the guy on the radio used to say.
These books WERE ALL in the Bible at one time and filled in the missing parts.

May i propose a scenario to you?
Suppose you were a Roman soldier stationed in Palestine and had just executed someone three days before. Now, three days later you hear he is up and walking around and talking to the people he was once hanging around with. Wouldn't you want to go check it out and see if it is BS or not? That makes sense, doesn't it? They did, and all became Christians after seeing and speaking with Him.
Pilate's wife, Prokla(sp) was also among them.
However a certain King did not like Romans very much and threw out this story and others that showed Romans having a human and common sense side.
I don't know how the one story of the Roman Tribune got by him.

 

[gfm7175]

Rather than have you attempt to thumb through several books, you can get more from these in a shorter period of time.

https://www.amazon.com/Banned-Bible...8499276&sr=8-1&keywords=banned+from+the+bible

and this part 2

https://www.amazon.com/Banned-Bible...rd_wg=ubIZi&psc=1&refRID=JH1XWR2SKG789HM1PHED

The history channel did a very good job on this, and then it is easy to find which individual banned books you would like to read.

Yes, there is much more to God's holy word than what has become presently accepted as the Bible.
Did you ever notice some "plot holes" in some of the Bible's stories? That does not mean what we have now was not the divine inspired word, it just means it is not all of it. I wanted to read the "rest of the story" as the guy on the radio used to say.
These books WERE ALL in the Bible at one time and filled in the missing parts.

May i propose a scenario to you?
Suppose you were a Roman soldier stationed in Palestine and had just executed someone three days before. Now, three days later you hear he is up and walking around and talking to the people he was once hanging around with. Wouldn't you want to go check it out and see if it is BS or not? That makes sense, doesn't it? They did, and all became Christians after seeing and speaking with Him.
Pilate's wife, Prokla(sp) was also among them.
However a certain King did not like Romans very much and threw out this story and others that showed Romans having a human and common sense side.
I don't know how the one story of the Roman Tribune got by him.

So you're talking about the Apocrypha, among other texts? If that's the case, then sure... I mean, it's not bad to read into some of that stuff (I found the book of Enoch to be interesting), but in the end, those writings aren't the inspired Word of God like the canonized books are, and while they (to an extent) can be interesting and informational, I feel that they should be taken with a grain of salt in comparison to the canonized books.

I was reading through the reviews for those dvds and a couple of them mentioned something about Jesus being married to Mary Magdalene and having children with her, which is a completely heretical claim. Another one mentioned something about Jesus being gay, which is an even more heretical claim.

In the end, it doesn't sound like something I would be all that interested in. I need to continue studying (and re-studying) the canonized Bible, as I keep discovering new things (and better remembering old things) each time I do.

 

[PleasantValley]

So you're talking about the Apocrypha, among other texts? If that's the case, then sure... I mean, it's not bad to read into some of that stuff (I found the book of Enoch to be interesting), but in the end, those writings aren't the inspired Word of God like the canonized books are, and while they (to an extent) can be interesting and informational, I feel that they should be taken with a grain of salt in comparison to the canonized books.

I was reading through the reviews for those dvds and a couple of them mentioned something about Jesus being married to Mary Magdalene and having children with her, which is a completely heretical claim. Another one mentioned something about Jesus being gay, which is an even more heretical claim.

In the end, it doesn't sound like something I would be all that interested in. I need to continue studying (and re-studying) the canonized Bible, as I keep discovering new things (and better remembering old things) each time I do.

DO NOT use internet reviewers comments as an accurate judgment on these two DVDs.
I have both of them and not even once do they mention any of that heretical crap.
You are making a decision based on innuendo over the internet by those that have an agenda do not want anyone to know certain things.
If you are genuinely interested, DO NOT rely on the opinions of others to base your decisions.

but...evidently you have.
Which tells me you were just looking for an excuse to not look any further in the first place.
You stopped without even starting.
I am glad you are not working as a homicide detective.
"Detective gfm7175, we have a murder that was committed yesterday and you have been assigned the case"
" I have already solved the case, Captain, people on the internet commented that Joe Schuck is guilty as charged".
" that is all the investigating i need to do to make up my mind".

You did ZERO research on this subject, and now you have decided it is all hericy(sp) because of others comments and not what you saw, heard, and read, with your own eyes and ears.
Here is your torch, earplugs, and blinders. Now join in with the mob that does likewise.

Such as it is when discussing things with "religious" people.
It always ends the same way.
That is why I asked in the beginning if you were GENUINELY interested.
...and you were stopped in your tracks by internet comments.
Not very GENUINE if you ask me.

Discussion over. I do not talk with those that have blinders, earplugs in their ears, and are not honest about their honesty.

 

[gfm7175]

DO NOT use internet reviewers comments as an accurate judgment on these two DVDs.
I have both of them and not even once do they mention any of that heretical crap.
You are making a decision based on innuendo over the internet by those that have an agenda do not want anyone to know certain things.
If you are genuinely interested, DO NOT rely on the opinions of others to base your decisions.

Yup, I'm sure that those verified purchasers have an "agenda" against information... I highly doubt they would take the time to leave a fake review with false information on an item such as that.

but...evidently you have.
Which tells me you were just looking for an excuse to not look any further in the first place.
You stopped without even starting.

Who says I stopped or don't want the information? I just have no interest in the specific item that you linked me...

I am glad you are not working as a homicide detective.
"Detective gfm7175, we have a murder that was committed yesterday and you have been assigned the case"
" I have already solved the case, Captain, people on the internet commented that Joe Schuck is guilty as charged".
" that is all the investigating i need to do to make up my mind".

Yup, because that is exactly how I would handle that situation... And I did mention to you already that I found the book of Enoch to be interesting, and I have paged through the Apocrypha a bit.

You did ZERO research on this subject, and now you have decided it is all hericy(sp) because of others comments and not what you saw, heard, and read, with your own eyes and ears.

Ok.

Here is your torch, earplugs, and blinders. Now join in with the mob that does likewise.

Such as it is when discussing things with "religious" people.
It always ends the same way.
That is why I asked in the beginning if you were GENUINELY interested.
...and you were stopped in your tracks by internet comments.
Not very GENUINE if you ask me.

Discussion over. I do not talk with those that have blinders, earplugs in their ears, and are not honest about their honesty.

I agree. I was interested in what you were talking about. I found out what you were talking about, and have decided that I have no interest in that particular product. I have poked around at other writings before, and may do so again, but my primary focus is studying the canonized Bible which is most definitely the inspired Word of God. I also agree that any future discussion about this would be unfruitful. Thank you Kind Sir,

gfm7175

 

[PleasantValley]

Yup, I'm sure that those verified purchasers have an "agenda" against information... I highly doubt they would take the time to leave a fake review with false information on an item such as that.


Who says I stopped or don't want the information? I just have no interest in the specific item that you linked me...


Yup, because that is exactly how I would handle that situation... And I did mention to you already that I found the book of Enoch to be interesting, and I have paged through the Apocrypha a bit.


Ok.



I agree. I was interested in what you were talking about. I found out what you were talking about, and have decided that I have no interest in that particular product. I have poked around at other writings before, and may do so again, but my primary focus is studying the canonized Bible which is most definitely the inspired Word of God. I also agree that any future discussion about this would be unfruitful. Thank you Kind Sir,

gfm7175

Don't you wish all impasses on this sight could be terminated as well as we have ours?
We both saw no further discussion was necessary and would be unfruitful, so we both stopped.
This does not mean i do not respect your decision. I just disagree with it.
It is your decision.
We both chose to not get personal for several more pages like so many we both have seen here do.
I am glad we both see the futility in attacking windmills.

You enjoy your day too, kind Sir, as i will enjoy mine.....vacuuming up bird feathers from my "gift" kitty brought me this morning.

 

[gfm7175]

Don't you wish all impasses on this sight could be terminated as well as we have ours?

I do.

We both saw no further discussion was necessary and would be unfruitful, so we both stopped.
This does not mean i do not respect your decision. I just disagree with it.
It is your decision.
We both chose to not get personal for several more pages like so many we both have seen here do.
I am glad we both see the futility in attacking windmills.

I completely agree with you here, and share your sentiment that it would be nice if others could do likewise.

You enjoy your day too, kind Sir, as i will enjoy mine.....vacuuming up bird feathers from my "gift" kitty brought me this morning.

BAD KITTY!!! BAD!!!! =)

 

[PleasantValley]

I do.


I completely agree with you here, and share your sentiment that it would be nice if others could do likewise.


BAD KITTY!!! BAD!!!! =)

:devil: Did you notice your last post to me was your 666th. :devil:
Kind of a joke to us both, I think.
The Lord does have a well developed sense of humor.

 

[gfm7175]

:devil: Did you notice your last post to me was your 666th. :devil:
Kind of a joke to us both, I think.
The Lord does have a well developed sense of humor.

Uh oh... not sure if that bodes well for me...

Gonna have to make 111 more posts to turn this ship around :lol:

 

[PleasantValley]

Uh oh... not sure if that bodes well for me...

Gonna have to make 111 more posts to turn this ship around :lol:

Helmsman! Come left to course 777.

 

[Kreton]

I choose to believe in an afterlife. I don't judge people based on their true beliefs, but I don't believe any people truly understand God's intentions for us. If there are alternative afterlives for good and bad people on Earth I believe that your actions on this Earth not your beliefs are what decide your fate.

 

[it's just me]

Helmsman! Come left to course 777.

Make it so, #1...

 

[DickBanks]

Not arguing over 1 verse, but do you take the Bible as the literal word of God?

Sorry I took so long. Yes, I believe the Bible is the Infallible Word of God.

I also believe that this post is an attempt by you to trap me as a Christian, so let me help you out here.

"Then you believe that it's OK to own slaves"
--The Bible doesn't say that.

"Then you don't eat pork."
--There is a difference between Ceremonial Law and Moral law.

"What about when God commanded the Israelites to kill every living thing; that was OK?"
--Yes, but if that fate befalls you, you better make sure it's God and not the enemy that you are listening to.

 

[DickBanks]

I choose to believe in an afterlife. I don't judge people based on their true beliefs, but I don't believe any people truly understand God's intentions for us. If there are alternative afterlives for good and bad people on Earth I believe that your actions on this Earth not your beliefs are what decide your fate.

Maybe that idea would make for a great Disney movie, but it's not what God's Word says...

 

[JANFU]

Sorry I took so long. Yes, I believe the Bible is the Infallible Word of God.

I also believe that this post is an attempt by you to trap me as a Christian, so let me help you out here.

"Then you believe that it's OK to own slaves"
--The Bible doesn't say that.

"Then you don't eat pork."
--There is a difference between Ceremonial Law and Moral law.

"What about when God commanded the Israelites to kill every living thing; that was OK?"
--Yes, but if that fate befalls you, you better make sure it's God and not the enemy that you are listening to.

No trap at all. I am not one to play games and such. Though I can understand how some are hesitant.
I believe that the Bible was written using information that was passed on by multiple people. So mnay portions would not be the word of God, but what was eventually written.

Next- I am a Christian.

 

[iguanaman]

A person, does not believe in God, lives a life helping others, the poor, those that others look down upon and shun.
When they die do they go to Heaven?
Simple yes or no.

There is no heaven. We are all animals who are born and die on the planet we evolved on like nature intended. Do gnats got to gnat heaven?

 

[JANFU]

There is no heaven. We are all animals who are born and die on the planet we evolved on like nature intended. Do gnats got to gnat heaven?

Gnat I do not know.

 

[DickBanks]

No trap at all. I am not one to play games and such. Though I can understand how some are hesitant.
I believe that the Bible was written using information that was passed on by multiple people. So mnay portions would not be the word of God, but what was eventually written.

Next- I am a Christian.

Well I guess I took you for a different sort of person--I apologize. We shall have to agree to disagree over our Biblical interpretation.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

A person, does not believe in God, lives a life helping others, the poor, those that others look down upon and shun.
When they die do they go to Heaven?
Simple yes or no.

I hope so. No decent god with a heaven to hand out tickets for would do otherwise. But some of the religions on this planet have pretty angry, vindictive gods.

 

[Kreton]

Maybe that idea would make for a great Disney movie, but it's not what God's Word says...

What is actually God's word is an entirely separate discussion but you can believe what you wish. I'll believe what I do.