We've been through this before. Popular usage:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism
P1: In the U.S., some fraction of our population is black, and some fraction of those blacks benefit from the oppression of whites. True.
P2:Blacks are not the dominant racial group. True.
-> Therefore blacks cannot exhibit racism in the broad context of the U.S.
It cannot get much more simple than that.
Notice how it also acknowledge that reverse DISCRIMINATION does occur (rightly so in some cases). But that it doesn't make it racism.
P1: In the U.S., some fraction of our population is black, and some fraction of those blacks benefit from the oppression of whites. True.
P2:Blacks are not the dominant racial group. True.
-> Therefore blacks cannot exhibit racism in the broad context of the U.S.
Which is totally irrelevant. Just because the left has tried to redefine racism doesn't mean what racist blacks do is not racism. The definition of the word is "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior." There is nothing in there about power. Power has been added specifically to give black racists, or other minority racists, an out.
Sorry, doesn't work that way.
Power has been added specifically to give black racists, or other minority racists, an out.
orry, doesn't work that way.
1-Who is claiming no racism exists in America?Hi guys!
Given the doubling down on the whole "America isn't racist!" rhetoric the day after a bunch of white nationalist nazi's march through America with torches leaving a few dead people in their wake(in 2017!!), I was curious, what would actually change your mind and make you go 'hmmm, you know what, there might actually be something to this racism thing'.
Primarily aimed at those who currently believe that racism is not currently a big deal, is not systemic, doesn't disproportionally affect's non-whites, white privilege doesn't exist etc etc etc. Please check all reasons that would change your mind!
To be clear, I'm not talking about individual specific instances of racism (we all know those exist) but the more general social existence of racism at a systemic level.
- A few more dead black kids
- Lots more dead black kids
- A hell of a lot more black kids getting held at gunpoint, that's for sure
- 1 more nazi march
- Like maybe a few more nazi marches would do it
- President wearing a swastika
- A doubling to the difference in median net worth between black and white families (currently @ ~$100k)
- Black infant mortality rate dropping even further compared to whites
- A few more black churches getting shot up
- Other/None of the above (please go into detail!)
Poll incoming!
1-Who is claiming no racism exists in America?
2-how many dead black kids are there annually due to racism?
2a-how many dead black kids are there due to living in a black community around other black Americans?
2b-Can you cite any instances where you have given even the pretense of a **** about dead black kids killed by black Americans?
To be clear, I'm not talking about individual specific instances of racism (we all know those exist) but the more general social existence of racism at a systemic level.
1-Then show the actual instances of systemic racism and lets address them. 2-Thats not an answer to the question. Thats just more of you bleating "but RACISM!" Answer the question. How many dead black kids are there annualy due to racism. YOU make the claim...so be specific with both number and cause. 2a-nice dodge. Answer the question. 2b-I notice your ass didnt TOUCH that one. And you and I both know why.1 - Line 7 of the OP.
2 - Black kids die annually to a lot of things. If however, black kids were dying at a rate 10x that of white kids - would you put that down to chance or would you say that there is some systemic issue to face?
2a - "BUTWHATABOUT" nonsense. We discuss the possibility of nuclear war when more people die due to cars or cancer. This thread is about systemic racism, not gang violence or cancer or trampolines. I'd appreciate it if you stick to the topic.
Absurd.
I post a Wiki definition of precisely what is asked, that BY DEFINITION you're incorrect, and you object because you don't like it?
OK, I object to your absurd post because I don't like it. What absurdity.
What's being communicated is what is important, and I clearly communicated it. You don't like it, who the **** cares?
I can assure you, white's remain in power as a majority in the U.S. and blacks are a minority that experience a wide rang of socio-economic hurdles as a result of being black in the United States.
That we recognize the power difference, that exists, is not an accident, it's appropriate, obviously.
If I'm the owner of a company and an employ mouths off, it doesn't bother me, it carries little weight, and will not impact me or my life.
If I'm an employee that depends on my paycheck to make ends meet, and my boss mouths off to me, I'm concerned for my job, my reputation, and my family, etc., etc.
Power matters Cephus, despite your earnest insistence it doesn't.
1-Then show the actual instances of systemic racism and lets address them. 2-Thats not an answer to the question. Thats just more of you bleating "but RACISM!" Answer the question. How many dead black kids are there annualy due to racism. YOU make the claim...so be specific with both number and cause. 2a-nice dodge. Answer the question. 2b-I notice your ass didnt TOUCH that one. And you and I both know why.
1-Then show the actual instances of systemic racism and lets address them. 2-Thats not an answer to the question. Thats just more of you bleating "but RACISM!" Answer the question. How many dead black kids are there annualy due to racism. YOU make the claim...so be specific with both number and cause. 2a-nice dodge. Answer the question. 2b-I notice your ass didnt TOUCH that one. And you and I both know why.
Systemic and institutional racism propogate through attitudes rather than through laws. As the law is written, all people in this country are equal. It is in how society functions, how the law is carried out and how people interact with each other that systemic and institutional racism rears its head.
The clearest examples I can provide of inequality in the system is through the vast disparity between races in wealth/poverty/wages, in health, in housing, in education, in unemployment and in crime/incarceration rates. We can go into each one individually if you wish, and I'll list a couple statistics at the end of this post, but just to summarize, in every single one of these sectors, whites and asians outperform blacks and hispanics. Why is this the case? If this were a land of completely equal opportunity then why is there such a gap between races?
The fact of the matter is, that unless you believe that certain races are predisposed in America to achieve less (i.e. the problem is in their nature/genetic) - something that some people on this forum ascribe to but I personally outright dismiss, then there must be societal reasons (i.e. nurture) for why such wide disparities occur. It's easy to blame the problems that the black and hispanic communities face squarely on them, their own culture inhibits them. But it's important to recognize that minority cultures develop around and in response to the 'majority' culture. The attitude in poor inner city black areas developed in opposition to oppression they faced, both historically and in the present. This does not mean to say that ending the poverty/wage/health gap lies solely in the hands of white people. It doesn't. It lies just as much in the hands of Hispanics and Blacks, but it will require acknowledgement of existence by the majority of Americans in order to resolve, and the majority of America is white.
The following numbers come from a variety of studies, many performed by think tanks. I'm sure many of them have a bias in the exact numbers they report, but it's easy to see that the general trends that they report are true, even if some of the numbers reached are situational or take certain data out of context. Such bias is easy to come to in sociological study. I'm also sure many of the numbers are true.
- Black babies are 2.5x more likely to die before their first birthday than white
- Median net worth in the US for a White family: $140,000 - Hispanic family: $14,000 - Black family: $11,000. - White woman: $40,000, Hispanic woman: $140, Black woman: $120
- Black college grads unemployment level is 2x that of white college grads
- Applicants with white or asian sounding names are twice as likely to get a callback as candidates with a black sounding name
- Despite equal usage of marijuana, black people are 3.7x more likely to get arrested for possession than white people
- For every 100,000 American men, 700 are incarcerated. For every 100,000 black men, 4000 are incarcerated.
And each of these issues don't exist in a vacuum. A black mans inability to get a specific housing benefit might impact his families ability to get into a good school. These affects are knock on. Even if things are 'equal' today, there is a long history of knock-on effects that have to be accounted for. A child of a historically poor family is less likely to do well than a child of a historically rich family. This is precisely why affirmative action (something that is inherently racist) exists. (Fyi my position on affirmative action is that in an ideal world we would have candidate 415 vs candidate 897 - no names or races involved - but average general achievement of school/surrounding area should be considered).
If you can adequately explain these disparities in a land of equal opportunity, where all men are created equal, then please be my guest.
(I would also like to add that these differences are in population in general. Systemic racism does not really consider individuals as it is, you guessed it, systemic. Yes I am aware a black man is president. Yes I am aware that there are black lawyers and doctors and neurosurgeons, but in many cases these are the exception to the rules, they exist in a far smaller proportion than their white counterparts.)
Hi guys!
Given the doubling down on the whole "America isn't racist!" rhetoric the day after a bunch of white nationalist nazi's march through America with torches leaving a few dead people in their wake(in 2017!!), I was curious, what would actually change your mind and make you go 'hmmm, you know what, there might actually be something to this racism thing'.
Primarily aimed at those who currently believe that racism is not currently a big deal, is not systemic, doesn't disproportionally affect's non-whites, white privilege doesn't exist etc etc etc. Please check all reasons that would change your mind!
To be clear, I'm not talking about individual specific instances of racism (we all know those exist) but the more general social existence of racism at a systemic level.
- A few more dead black kids
- Lots more dead black kids
- A hell of a lot more black kids getting held at gunpoint, that's for sure
- 1 more nazi march
- Like maybe a few more nazi marches would do it
- President wearing a swastika
- A doubling to the difference in median net worth between black and white families (currently @ ~$100k)
- Black infant mortality rate dropping even further compared to whites
- A few more black churches getting shot up
- Other/None of the above (please go into detail!)
Poll incoming!
What would it take for you to not post ridiculous straw man threads?
Geeeeeeee zusAlso see some of my prior posts on the matter:
Great question! A few less nazi's marching through American towns would probably do it.
Less apologism towards them would be pretty good too. Actual condemnation would be nice.
Geeeeeeee zus
This is so ****ing sad and soooooooooo ****ing typical. You bkleat on that there MUST be systemic racism...I ask you to provide the actual systemic racism...and then you post a bunch of bull**** to hide behind the fact that you will not identify the actual systemic racism. This conversation gets played out SO many times. Heres just 1 example.
In case you miss it...you are the two on the left.
Maybe interment camps. Perhaps we can have a pogrom or another kristallnacht. This time against anyone espousing views we disagree with..... wouldn't that be cool?
The Nazi scum, and the antifa scum both suck. racism sucks, leftists who use racism as a bat suck and are no better than the racists they decry.
Geeeeeeee zus
This is so ****ing sad and soooooooooo ****ing typical. You bkleat on that there MUST be systemic racism...I ask you to provide the actual systemic racism...and then you post a bunch of bull**** to hide behind the fact that you will not identify the actual systemic racism. This conversation gets played out SO many times. Heres just 1 example.
In case you miss it...you are the two on the left.
With Bannon’s accession to a top White House role, it’s time to answer some brief questions about the man and what he’s likely to do.
Is Bannon Anti-Semitic And Racist?
I have no evidence that Bannon’s a racist or that he’s an anti-Semite; the Huffington Post’s blaring headline “WHITE NATIONALIST IN THE WHITE HOUSE” is overstated, at the very least. With that said, as I wrote at The Washington Post in August, Bannon has openly embraced the racist and anti-Semitic alt-right – he called his Breitbart “the platform of the alt-right.” Milo Yiannopoulos, the star writer at the site, is an alt-right popularizer, even as he continuously declares with a wink that he’s not a member. The left’s opposition to Trump, and their attempts to declare all Trump support the alt-right have obfuscated what the movement is. The movement isn’t all Trump supporters. It’s not conservatives unsatisfied with Paul Ryan, nor is it people angry at the media. Bannon knows that. He’s a smart man, not an ignorant one. The alt-right, in a nutshell, believes that Western culture is inseparable from European ethnicity. I have no evidence Bannon believes that personally. But he’s happy to pander to those people and make common cause with them in order to transform conservatism into European far-right nationalist populism. That means that the alt-right will cheer Bannon along as he marbles Trump’s speeches with talk of “globalism” – and that Bannon won’t be pushing Trump to dump the racists and anti-Semites who support Trump anytime soon. After all, they love Bannon – actual white supremacists like Peter Brimelow called his August appointment “great news,” and Richard Spencer explained, “Breitbart has elective affinities with the Alt Right, and the Alt Right has clearly influenced Breitbart. In this way, Breitbart has acted as a ‘gateway’ to Alt Right ideas and writers. I don’t think it has done this deliberately; again, it’s a matter of elective affinities.” That doesn’t mean Bannon will push racist or anti-Semitic policy, or that he’ll be anti-Israel himself – unless it serves his interests.
And of course. You still cant address your OWN ISSUE...so now you want to divert to Ben Shapiro.Also, that's the same Ben Shapiro who said:
3 Thoughts On Steve Bannon As White House 'Chief Strategist' | Daily Wire
So even Shapiro knows that the guy who is now chief strategist in the White House is a person that is happy and open to giving a platform to nazi-ism. Who they love. And guess what! Now they feel emboldened enough to march in public without masks, beat people with poles and run people over.
Do you seriously not see why people are concerned about this sequence of events? Do you not see why people see this as evidence of a systemic problem in America?
Some of these things suck far far more than the others. That you can't recognize that is concerning.
yes. disagreeing with you is concerning. I find all forms of fascism, including left wing fascism guised as SJW activism repulsive. Look at what all your race baiting has done. The left needs the black community and other minorities to remain in a victim status. look at what all your "white privilege" lecturing has wrought. you wanted a war with nazi scum, you got iy. Ironically acting just as intolerant and fascist as them.
Kudos to your war. may it be one of attrition.
And of course. You still cant address your OWN ISSUE...so now you want to divert to Ben Shapiro.
You REALLY dont see how stupid you are making yourself look...do you? STILL...the two on the left.
People don't become nazi's because we call them that. Neither is being called a nazi an excuse to become one.
Feminists have been called nazi's for decades and they've managed to protest without swastika's or yelling heil hitler or beating minorities with poles.
You can try as you might to put this on the people that call it out as wrong, but the truth is that white supremacism and everything that comes with it is down to these people themselves and those who let it slide. Something called personal responsibility. You might have heard of it.
We drove Nazi's out of our scene in the 80's 90's with bottles and bricks same thing happened in "beantown" around the same time,. We didn't do it because we believed in white privilege, or evil cis gender scum ruining the planet, we did it because they were ****ing boneheads.
What you have here is one authoritarian supporting scum, figthing another authoritarian scum ideal. ANTIFA and thier own racist, fascist beliefs are no better than the nazis. other than that, I have no idea what you are on about
Poll: What would it take for you to accept the existence of systemic racism in America?
My response to 2a was meant to also be the response to 2b.
As for examples of inequality
- Black babies are 2.5x more likely to die before their first birthday than white babies.
- Median net worth in the US for a White family: $140,000 - Hispanic family: $14,000 - Black family: $11,000. - White woman: $40,000, Hispanic woman: $140, Black woman: $120
- Black college grads unemployment level is 2x that of white college grads
- Applicants with white or asian sounding names are twice as likely to get a callback as candidates with a black sounding name
- Despite equal usage of marijuana, black people are 3.7x more likely to get arrested for possession than white people
- For every 100,000 American men, 700 are incarcerated. For every 100,000 black men, 4000 are incarcerated.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_inequality_in_the_United_States
First step: Whether or not you believe systemic racism is a thing, do you believe that in general, black people are worse off (worse outcomes) than white people?
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