What would it take for you to accept that racism still exists in America

[Nilly]

Hi guys!

Given the doubling down on the whole "America isn't racist!" rhetoric the day after a bunch of white nationalist nazi's march through America with torches leaving a few dead people in their wake(in 2017!!), I was curious, what would actually change your mind and make you go 'hmmm, you know what, there might actually be something to this racism thing'.

Primarily aimed at those who currently believe that racism is not currently a big deal, is not systemic, doesn't disproportionally affect's non-whites, white privilege doesn't exist etc etc etc. Please check all reasons that would change your mind!

To be clear, I'm not talking about individual specific instances of racism (we all know those exist) but the more general social existence of racism at a systemic level.

- A few more dead black kids
- Lots more dead black kids
- A hell of a lot more black kids getting held at gunpoint, that's for sure
- 1 more nazi march
- Like maybe a few more nazi marches would do it
- President wearing a swastika
- A doubling to the difference in median net worth between black and white families (currently @ ~$100k)
- Black infant mortality rate dropping even further compared to whites
- A few more black churches getting shot up
- Other/None of the above (please go into detail!)

Poll incoming!

 

[JamesBY]

Anyone who does not think it exists is mentally feeble, woefully ignorant, or malignantly motivated.

 

[Nilly]

A few more options I couldn't fit in.

- David Duke being elected president
- Reincarnation of Adolf Hitler nominated as secretary of education
- Slavery reinstated
- 20% tax on non-whites earnings
- Blacks having lower IQ's being taught as common core
- Mandatory crosses built in high school foyers

 

[Hawkeye10]

I dont organize my life by "isms".

 

[Goshin]

Holey crap.


Of course racism still EXISTS in America... it EXISTS everywhere, including Japan and China.


That's a world of difference between that and "America IS racist!" as so many seem to imply.

 

[Nilly]

Holey crap.


Of course racism still EXISTS in America... it EXISTS everywhere, including Japan and China.


That's a world of difference between that and "America IS racist!" as so many seem to imply.

Line 7 of OP:

To be clear, I'm not talking about individual specific instances of racism (we all know those exist) but the more general social existence of racism at a systemic level.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Having experienced "systemic racism" when it actually existed; I dispute the whole premise of this thread.

Racism has always existed (and it isn't limited to the "White Man" as some would preach) in every socio-cultural grouping.

So there are racists in the USA.

Some racists might carry their viewpoints over into their business dealings and/or performance in their work environment.

However, IMO there is no "systemic racism" today; and there are easily accessable legal recourses for any citizen(s) who experiences a local brand or incident of racism.

 

[Nilly]

However, IMO there is no "systemic racism" today; and there are easily accessable legal recourses for any citizen(s) who experiences a local brand or incident of racism.

Which is exactly why I'm asking what would need to happen for you to change your mind.

 

[LaylaWindu]

Other:

My answer is "nothing", Like the majority I already know it exists. Racism is alive and well. While things are better than they ever have been it still exists and sadly I've seen many cases of it.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Which is exactly why I'm asking what would need to happen for you to change your mind.

We would LITERALLY have to go back to "Jim Crow" and separate but equal laws enforced at both the Federal and State level, with a repeal of the Civil Rights Act.

Think of it being like how the Nazis treated the Jews back in Hitler's Germany.

THAT fantasy scenario is what it would take.

Meanwhile, I agree with Denzel Washington..."It's not Color, it's Culture."

There are many Black Americans who are successful in America because they don't let the insidious cultural blocks so many Black Communities encourage hold them back.

They don't act like they are owed anything, that they don't need an education, or to treat people civilly, or to develop a positive work ethic; preferring the idea they are "owed" something from the moment of birth simply because of the color of their skin.

Not only are many Black Americans successful if they adapt to social norms, so are immigrants from around the world, including our brethren from Africa.

Immigrants of all colors come here, adapt, and succeed.

If there was systemic racism, then every Black citizen native or immigrant, as well as every Asian, Hispanic, what have you would all be failing.

Facts show otherwise. :coffeepap:

 

[Nilly]

We would LITERALLY have to go back to "Jim Crow" and separate but equal laws enforced at both the Federal and State level, with a repeal of the Civil Rights Act.

Think of it being like how the Nazis treated the Jews back in Hitler's Germany.

THAT fantasy scenario is what it would take.

Wow, so the president wearing a swastika wouldn't be enough to convince you of systemic racism in this country - if the laws weren't specifically changed.

You believe that the only way that systemic racism can exist in America is if the laws specifically enforce it.

Good to know. This is exactly the insight I was looking for when I started this thread.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Wow, so the president wearing a swastika wouldn't be enough to convince you of systemic racism in this country - if the laws weren't specifically changed.

You believe that the only way that systemic racism can exist in America is if the laws specifically enforce it.

Good to know. This is exactly the insight I was looking for when I started this thread.

Systemic: Of or relating to systems or a system.

Thus demonstrated by our entire socio-political system as opposed to the actions of...oh let's say "6,000 white nationalists" marching in a southern State. (You do realize there are nearly 350 million Americans, right?)

One individual, even the President, wearing a swastika proves nothing...other than that individual is either a Nazi or wearing a Halloween costume.

Do your really think the President could get away with that and not be removed from office? :roll:

 

[KevinKohler]

It would take a systemic, routine failure to denounce the racism that does exist when it becomes visible.

 

[JANFU]

Hi guys!

Given the doubling down on the whole "America isn't racist!" rhetoric the day after a bunch of white nationalist nazi's march through America with torches leaving a few dead people in their wake(in 2017!!), I was curious, what would actually change your mind and make you go 'hmmm, you know what, there might actually be something to this racism thing'.

Primarily aimed at those who currently believe that racism is not currently a big deal, is not systemic, doesn't disproportionally affect's non-whites, white privilege doesn't exist etc etc etc. Please check all reasons that would change your mind!

To be clear, I'm not talking about individual specific instances of racism (we all know those exist) but the more general social existence of racism at a systemic level.

- A few more dead black kids
- Lots more dead black kids
- A hell of a lot more black kids getting held at gunpoint, that's for sure
- 1 more nazi march
- Like maybe a few more nazi marches would do it
- President wearing a swastika
- A doubling to the difference in median net worth between black and white families (currently @ ~$100k)
- Black infant mortality rate dropping even further compared to whites
- A few more black churches getting shot up
- Other/None of the above (please go into detail!)

Poll incoming!

Not a criticism, but a good number do believe systemic racism/bigotry exists in the US and far to many deny it.
That could have been an option

 

[Napoleon]

An evidenced argument that doesn't disintegrate in the wind when you look below the surface and examine the details.

 

[JANFU]

Having experienced "systemic racism" when it actually existed; I dispute the whole premise of this thread.

Racism has always existed (and it isn't limited to the "White Man" as some would preach) in every socio-cultural grouping.

So there are racists in the USA.

Some racists might carry their viewpoints over into their business dealings and/or performance in their work environment.

However, IMO there is no "systemic racism" today; and there are easily accessable legal recourses for any citizen(s) who experiences a local brand or incident of racism.

Shall we take a gander at the Justice System

https://www.google.ca/search?q=syss...&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=k6yQWYbUF-nY0gKC2LG4AQ

Race and Criminal Justice Task Force : Seattle University School of Law : Seattle, Washington

Open Prelim report

 

[holbritter]

Yes, racism exists. I just purchased bags of black mulch and it had "Negro" written on them. :shock:

 

[Captain Adverse]

Shall we take a gander at the Justice System

https://www.google.ca/search?q=syss...&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=k6yQWYbUF-nY0gKC2LG4AQ

Race and Criminal Justice Task Force : Seattle University School of Law : Seattle, Washington

Open Prelim report

There are many allegations of systemic racism in our criminal justice system...and just as many argument's against it.

I stand by my original posts. :coffeepap:

 

[Nilly]

Not a criticism, but a good number do believe systemic racism/bigotry exists in the US and far to many deny it.
That could have been an option

Oh I agree completely, I just didn't have space for that - I wanted to aim this at people who do deny the existence of systemic racism.

 

[Nilly]

Systemic: Of or relating to systems or a system.

Thus demonstrated by our entire socio-political system as opposed to the actions of...oh let's say "6,000 white nationalists" marching in a southern State. (You do realize there are nearly 350 million Americans, right?)

One individual, even the President, wearing a swastika proves nothing...other than that individual is either a Nazi or wearing a Halloween costume.

Do your really think the President could get away with that and not be removed from office? :roll:

So for systemic racism to exist it must be enshrined in law rather than just cultural?

Those 6,500 people represent the views of many more (but yes they are basically the worst of the lot).

And the President has appointed Bannon as chief strategist and Sessions as AG without getting removed from office. These are far less symbolic but realistically more harmful (from a racial standpoint) than wearing a swastika.

 

[mike2810]

Stupid poll. Voted Other
Of course racism exists in the USA. However, racism is not limited to being direct at one specific race.
There are those who hate Whites, Hispanic, Asian, Russian, etc. etc. etc.

 

[Nilly]

Stupid poll. Voted Other
Of course racism exists in the USA. However, racism is not limited to being direct at one specific race.
There are those who hate Whites, Hispanic, Asian, Russian, etc. etc. etc.

Line 7 of OP:

To be clear, I'm not talking about individual specific instances of racism (we all know those exist) but the more general social existence of racism at a systemic level.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Hi guys!

Given the doubling down on the whole "America isn't racist!" rhetoric the day after a bunch of white nationalist nazi's march through America with torches leaving a few dead people in their wake(in 2017!!), I was curious, what would actually change your mind and make you go 'hmmm, you know what, there might actually be something to this racism thing'.

Primarily aimed at those who currently believe that racism is not currently a big deal, is not systemic, doesn't disproportionally affect's non-whites, white privilege doesn't exist etc etc etc. Please check all reasons that would change your mind!

To be clear, I'm not talking about individual specific instances of racism (we all know those exist) but the more general social existence of racism at a systemic level.

- A few more dead black kids
- Lots more dead black kids
- A hell of a lot more black kids getting held at gunpoint, that's for sure
- 1 more nazi march
- Like maybe a few more nazi marches would do it
- President wearing a swastika
- A doubling to the difference in median net worth between black and white families (currently @ ~$100k)
- Black infant mortality rate dropping even further compared to whites
- A few more black churches getting shot up
- Other/None of the above (please go into detail!)

Poll incoming!

What I see you doing is the same as what climate change deniers do: "It was cold today; no climate change!"

A bunch of Nazi's marching in Charlottesville does not equate systematic racism. Laws, rules and regulations that put specific races at a disadvantage over other races, equates systematic racism. Outside of laws, rules and regulations the racism here in the US doesnt meet to definition of the word systematic: done or acting according to a fixed plan or system; methodical. There isnt some big conspiracy by white people to be racists. There are a awful lot of racists, but they are not all organized like those groups at that stupid ass rally.

That being said something should be done about the extreme right running around. And while we are at it we should also do something about all the extreme left.

 

[DiAnna]

So for systemic racism to exist it must be enshrined in law rather than just cultural?

Those 6,500 people represent the views of many more (but yes they are basically the worst of the lot).

And the President has appointed Bannon as chief strategist and Sessions as AG without getting removed from office. These are far less symbolic but realistically more harmful (from a racial standpoint) than wearing a swastika.

By strict definition, "systemic racism" is indeed racism enshrined in law. What the country is primarily experiencing is a resurgence of widespread sociological, cultural racism in my opinion, which has become worse, not better, over the past couple of years, as white-supremacist/neo-Nazi movements become more and more bold.

 

[holbritter]

Line 7 of OP:

Then why use blacks in the majority of your examples?