What we feel 'pride' in when we march.

[btthegreat]

We do not feel pride in' being gay' or ' being trans' or in our sexuality or gender identity at all. Gay/trans pride is about the personal coming out process and how we handled those challenges.

We feel personal and collective pride in how we responded to the social pressure, the stigma, the systemic efforts to shame and control us by the straight cisgender majority throughout decades and centuries of repression.


The Pride March performs three different but interconnected functions .
1. Celebrates all those individual personal victories in a public forum. Its sort of a public 'Victory Dance' over the cultural and social efforts to shame us into compliance and submission. This is a party with balloons and streamers and a theme. Its supposed be fun, cheeky, a bit wild, but it is not a really a super exclusive or private party. Just like most parties, gay and trans people tend invite some straight guests along as their 'plus ones'. Of course there are always social tensions that complicate who gets invited and who is unwelcome at even the most open 'bring your own beer' house parties. We have our politics and egos too!
2. Represents a political statement in support of gay and trans rights activism. This is essentially the same role that every other political protest performs whether it is a pro life march or anti war demonstration. It seeks media attention on the 'cause', and demands reform of perceived social and legal injustices. Activism is about confronting the status quo, and provoking a response. Immoderate and Intemperate speech is what all political protests are about. You don't bring your 'indoor voice' or your diplomats to a political demonstration.
3. It reinforces the collective ties within the LBGTQ subculture ( its 'counter-cultural' identity) and its sense of community. Subcultures can identify behind a religion, and ethnicity, a geographic area, or a set of mutual experiences. Like many other subcultures, The queer counter-culture originated as a negative response to the prevailing culture. It developed its own argot, symbols, style, musical and theatrical art, and memes.

The functions of gay/trans pride marches, and their role in defining the relationship of the queer community to the broader straight culture will inevitably change and adapt over time and what purpose they need to serve both within the queer community, and in relation to exterior forces in the city they are being held in . How much 'party' we bring to it, how much political posturing we bring to it, and how much subcultural unity we want to stress, is up for grabs!

Not a lot of this translates well to 'straight or cis pride march' but as far as I am concerned, who am I as a gay man, to tell you straights you can't try to find a purpose buried in there somewhere to reply to with a march of your own.

The worry comes when the majority with the power and historic propensity to discriminate, bully and marginalize a minority, isn't very careful in its messaging, and packaging of its protest themes, then it can become an excuse to advocate for the same bullying behavior that it did before.

 

[yankintx]

I don't march, I occasionaly attend a gay pride. Coming out at age 40 was and still is a very personal experience for me.

 

[btthegreat]

I don't march, I occasionaly attend a gay pride. Coming out at age 40 was and still is a very personal experience for me.

I have marched once in the 80's in Portland Oregon, and attended once post marriage rights in Seattle. The whole feel and atmosphere was entirely different. I was really scared I would lose my job, be harassed and it would strain relationships when I marched originally. the pride parade in Seattle was just a giant sweet but loud celebration among friends and allies.

 

[Big Steve]

I dunno', man. I have a hard time getting on board with someone who believes the only way to show "pride" is to dance down Main Street in Mommy's underwear....

 

[btthegreat]

I dunno', man. I have a hard time getting on board with someone who believes the only way to show "pride" is to dance down Main Street in Mommy's underwear....

That represents a few floats and some guys that you paid attention to.

You might pay attention to the character of others that reflected the deaths of thousands of our brothers, friends and lovers to the AIDS epidemic in the eighties and ninties.

You might pay attention to the character of others like the queer first responders, who marched as firemen, police, and EMTs, or the queer veterans marching in their army, marine and navy uniforms.

Maybe next time you should watch for the queer fathers and mothers marching with their babies and children by their sides, or the same sex married couples marching together hand in hand holding up their hands with those wedding bands, and certificates.

Maybe next time you should pay attention to those who marched for the local homeless youth shelter serving kids living on the streets thrown out by their families, or you could note the float on suicide prevention with the families of loved ones touched by that tragedy , or another reflecting the 'it gets better' anti bullying campaign.

A lot of people going to these or watching the TV clip, saw what they expected to see, and remembered what they wanted to remember, and took away what they wanted to take away.

Maybe you condensing your experience to a guy dancing in his underwear, tells us more about you than it does gay pride parades.

 

[btthegreat]

https://www.ukrweekly.com/uwwp/thou...his-years-participants-did-not-face-violence/

The point to this link is for you guys to check out the photo of the Ukrainian parade. Gay pride parades (surprise) reflect the nature of the culture from which they evolve. Gays do not dress the same, protest the same or draw attention to their cause in the same ways because what is tolerated, and what is seen as effective or necessary will be different in disparate societies. But what they are taking 'pride' in is pretty much the same. Its the way they handle the struggle of coming to terms with the social, religious, and personal pressure to be 'straight' come out as gay and still worthy of dignity, respect, and equality. You make a lot of tough choices before you march in any gay pride parade, and those decisions can make you stronger, free, and honest. That is what you take pride in , not who you sleep with, want to sleep with or fall in love with.

 

[Court Jester]

We feel personal and collective pride in how we responded to the social pressure, the stigma, the systemic efforts to shame and control us by the straight cisgender majority throughout decades and centuries of repression.

Thanks for sharing, and ironically I feel the same way about what I am proud of.

I'm proud to be Celto-Germanic
Proud to be American
Proud to be Christian
Proud to be Conservative
Proud to be heterosexual.

Proud all around,.

 

[btthegreat]

Thanks for sharing, and ironically I feel the same way about what I am proud of.

I'm proud to be Celto-Germanic
Proud to be American
Proud to be Christian
Proud to be Conservative
Proud to be heterosexual.

Proud all around,.

okay! Its kind of a silly false equivalency you want to ignore, but its no skin off my nose if you want to be 'proud' of any of that. Have a pride party and wave your flags and if you get yourself a permit, have a parade down main street. I will applaud you and wave in the hopes that you throw some candy my way.

 

[Court Jester]

okay! Its kind of a silly false equivalency you want to ignore, but its no skin off my nose if you want to be 'proud' of any of that. Have a pride party and wave your flags and if you get yourself a permit, have a parade down main street. I will applaud you and wave in the hopes that you throw some candy my way.

How is me being proud to be heterosexual and everything else I said a false equivalency?

 

[VySky]

How is me being proud to be heterosexual and everything else I said a false equivalency?

Interesting in admonishment comes when one displays pride in being in a heterosexual relationship that represents a certain culture. All the while gays can be prideful over openly living like heterosexuals. There lies the disconnect

 

[btthegreat]

How is me being proud to be heterosexual and everything else I said a false equivalency?

You don't have to 'come out' as heterosexual because its assumed and seen as normal, ordinary and a routine part of becoming an adult in every culture, religion and society. So you don't have the same potential consequences to the decisions that get you out of the closet and keep you out of the closet. Further there are not a lot of wrong ways to handle a the pitfalls of a bigotry that really does not exist. You are in better shape claiming you are proud of how you handle coming out as a Christian ( where that represents a marginalized and discriminated minority) but or as an American in a culture that dislikes Americans, but its not about what you are, its about how you handle a challenge based on what you are. But its not worth my time to engage in some debate about the obvious. So feel free and be proud of being straight and express your pride as much or often as you want. It does not offend or bother me or affect me in any way.

 

[Lisa]

How is me being proud to be heterosexual and everything else I said a false equivalency?

Why would you be proud of something that you had no choice in? We do not choose our sexual oprintation or gender identity, so why would you be proud of it?

This also applies to race/ancestry/skin color and religion when a person is still a member of the same religion of their family.

 

[btthegreat]

Why would you be proud of something that you had no choice in? We do not choose our sexual oprintation or gender identity, so why would you be proud of it?

This also applies to race/ancestry/skin color and religion when a person is still a member of the same religion of their family.

They don't understand that there is a personal journey involved and a ton of very difficult choices we make. If how you handle your sexual orientation struggles , end in bitterness, self deception, selfishness, and maybe a cruel and unforgiving streak, then there is nothing to be proud of. We probably both know a few gays who turned their struggle into an excuse to become and stay very nasty, self involved and destructive people. Who knows maybe they would have been like that anyway but they have nothing to be proud of, regardless of who they tell, or don't tell.

Its a process of learning and growing into ourselves. Many of us don't get it 'right; the first time or the second, and we make our share of mistakes, but some really never do 'get it right' no matter how long they have to try. Being gay does not redeem anyone who is stuck on their victimhood and their anger as an excuse to do harm.

 

[Court Jester]

You don't have to 'come out' as heterosexual because its assumed and seen as normal, ordinary and a routine part of becoming an adult in every culture, religion and society.

Maybe because it is normal. So, why would you have a problem with people who are proud to be normal?

So you don't have the same potential consequences to the decisions that get you out of the closet and keep you out of the closet. Further there are not a lot of wrong ways to handle a the pitfalls of a bigotry that really does not exist. You are in better shape claiming you are proud of how you handle coming out as a Christian ( where that represents a marginalized and discriminated minority) but or as an American in a culture that dislikes Americans, but its not about what you are, its about how you handle a challenge based on what you are.

All I am saying is that in the same way feel you need to show your "pride" for whatever you think is right; we feel the same way too. We are proud of our heterosexual children, and thank God everyday for that.

But its not worth my time to engage in some debate about the obvious. So feel free and be proud of being straight and express your pride as much or often as you want. It does not offend or bother me or affect me in any way.

Yeah, but you wanted to make a point about marching and "showing your colors". Well, we feel the same way, we just don't take to the streets to proclaim to the world that we are happy to feel normal. I just find it odd that you feel a need to go out and march is all. If we did that people would call us bigots and homophobes.

 

[Court Jester]

Why would you be proud of something that you had no choice in?

Well, we do have a choice in what we don't do don't we? Homosexuality is an ACT, it is not a way people are born.

We do not choose our sexual oprintation or gender identity, so why would you be proud of it?

I agree, we are all born either male or female, and we are born heterosexual. Everything else is just unnatural aberrant behavior.

This also applies to race/ancestry/skin color and religion when a person is still a member of the same religion of their family.

Yeah, we don't choose our race. But religion/belief is a choice.

 

[btthegreat]

Maybe because it is normal. So, why would you have a problem with people who are proud to be normal?




All I am saying is that in the same way feel you need to show your "pride" for whatever you think is right; we feel the same way too. We are proud of our heterosexual children, and thank God everyday for that.



Yeah, but you wanted to make a point about marching and "showing your colors". Well, we feel the same way, we just don't take to the streets to proclaim to the world that we are happy to feel normal. I just find it odd that you feel a need to go out and march is all. If we did that people would call us bigots and homophobes.

I thought I was pretty clear. I don't have a problem with it. It does not bother me. It does not harm me. Its just a false equivalency because you will not recognize the difference between being proud of how we handle the coming out struggle that lead us to march publicly in the parade, with 'being gay'. Its more amusing than offensive. I do not assume someone who proclaims pride in being straight is a homophobe or a bigot.
There is not enough information in just that act. There are other options to consider.

 

[Lisa]

Well, we do have a choice in what we don't do don't we? Homosexuality is an ACT, it is not a way people are born.


I agree, we are all born either male or female, and we are born heterosexual. Everything else is just unnatural aberrant behavior.



Yeah, we don't choose our race. But religion/belief is a choice.

Not all people are born male or female and we certainly arent all born heterosexual. I noteced that you do not mention that some people arent born CIS, or didn't you think that I would notice?

Claiming that gay people should be celibate is both asinine and not either healthy or reasonable. Should we force all heterosexuals who aren't married to also be celibate or maybe legislate vaginal sex to only be permissible for procreation?

 

[btthegreat]

Not all people are born male or female and we certainly arent all born heterosexual. I noteced that you do not mention that some people arent born CIS, or didn't you think that I would notice?

Claiming that gay people should be celibate is both asinine and not either healthy or reasonable. Should we force all heterosexuals who aren't married to also be celibate or maybe legislate vaginal sex to only be permissible for procreation?

Lisa you aren't thinking!
Don't give these people ideas that may show up in another Texas bill!

 

[Aristaeus]

Not all people are born male or female and we certainly arent all born heterosexual. I noteced that you do not mention that some people arent born CIS, or didn't you think that I would notice?

Claiming that gay people should be celibate is both asinine and not either healthy or reasonable. Should we force all heterosexuals who aren't married to also be celibate or maybe legislate vaginal sex to only be permissible for procreation?

As has been pointed out to you numerous times, a person's gender identity isn't formed until they are around 4 years old. People are not born cis or trans.
And everyone is born either male or female, unless you think there is some undiscovered third sex (and people with DSDs are still either male or female).

But hey, at least we can agree that the claim everyone is born heterosexual is nonsense.

 

[Maccabee]

Well, we do have a choice in what we don't do don't we? Homosexuality is an ACT, it is not a way people are born.

Homosexuality is definitely not an act. Some of my first memories was wanting to see another dude's junk. I never had that desire with girls.

I agree, we are all born either male or female, and we are born heterosexual. Everything else is just unnatural aberrant behavior.

No, we aren't. Please provide evidence to support your claim.

Yeah, we don't choose our race. But religion/belief is a choice.

And being gay isn't.

 

[Lisa]

As has been pointed out to you numerous times, a person's gender identity isn't formed until they are around 4 years old. People are not born cis or trans.
And everyone is born either male or female, unless you think there is some undiscovered third sex (and people with DSDs are still either male or female).

But hey, at least we can agree that the claim everyone is born heterosexual is nonsense.

People have no choice in their gender identity and John Money proved it cannot be changed, so it is an innate characteristic, despite your attempts to deny it or lessen its importance in an attempt to rationalize your TERFish beliefs.

Who said that people aren't born with biological sex, even if it is intersex? Where are you claiming that I m said that?

Children/teens don't understand their sexual orientation until they are beginning puberty, it's not a choice and it cannot be changed, but somehow you are convinced that our psychological gender identity is not either innate or is malleable.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Maybe you condensing your experience to a guy dancing in his underwear, tells us more about you than it does gay pride parades.

Game, set, match.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Thanks for sharing, and ironically I feel the same way about what I am proud of.

I'm proud to be Celto-Germanic
Proud to be American
Proud to be Christian
Proud to be Conservative
Proud to be heterosexual.

Proud all around,.

Good for you!

Ever faced systemic social discrimination, public shaming, institutionalized marginalization, or violence (threat of/actual acts) because of your identity with those things?

 

[yankintx]

Homosexuality is definitely not an act. Some of my first memories was wanting to see another dude's junk. I never had that desire with girls.


No, we aren't. Please provide evidence to support your claim.

And being gay isn't.

If i had a choice of course i would be straight, its an easier life.

This is not a choice. As Miss G. states i was born this way.

 

[noonereal]

I can't identify but if a parade is liberating for you, enjoy, sincerely.

Seems in this day and age being gay is actually cool. Of course I am from NY and really can't relate to what it might be like to be gay in the middle Alabama.