What "principle" of MAGA is not fascist in nature?

To start, I'm not inculcated in the "philosophy" of MAGA. I base my views on the expressions in public discourse, particularly on DP. I'm fervently anti-MAGA on that basis. I'm also a long-time student of fascism and authoritarian movements. Because of that, I've long considered MAGA as just a fascist movement. Indeed, I'm aware of no evidence to refute that. So, I'm starting a thread to entertain arguments to the contrary.

Be advised, however, that claims must be based upon substance, not unsupported conclusory statements. And they are subject to substantive challenge. I'd like to keep this thread out of the basement, so keep your commentary upstairs-worthy.

NWRatCon said:

To start, I'm not inculcated in the "philosophy" of MAGA. I base my views on the expressions in public discourse, particularly on DP. I'm fervently anti-MAGA on that basis. I'm also a long-time student of fascism and authoritarian movements. Because of that, I've long considered MAGA as just a fascist movement. Indeed, I'm aware of no evidence to refute that. So, I'm starting a thread to entertain arguments to the contrary.

Be advised, however, that claims must be based upon substance, not unsupported conclusory statements. And they are subject to substantive challenge. I'd like to keep this thread out of the basement, so keep your commentary upstairs-worthy.

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That's a good question, and I don't think you'll get a BS-free response from the righties. I expect something along the lines of "don't you agree that we should put our own interests first?" which is code for "America should play as a spoiled toddler on the world stage and be willing to **** shit up." Even some righties came around to how bad that was after Bush Jr.

NWRatCon said:

To start, I'm not inculcated in the "philosophy" of MAGA. I base my views on the expressions in public discourse, particularly on DP. I'm fervently anti-MAGA on that basis. I'm also a long-time student of fascism and authoritarian movements. Because of that, I've long considered MAGA as just a fascist movement. Indeed, I'm aware of no evidence to refute that. So, I'm starting a thread to entertain arguments to the contrary.

Be advised, however, that claims must be based upon substance, not unsupported conclusory statements. And they are subject to substantive challenge. I'd like to keep this thread out of the basement, so keep your commentary upstairs-worthy.

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Regardless your claim to be a "long-time student of fascism and authoritarian movements", I don't think you really understand what fascism is.

Anyway, to answer your thread title question...

Nothing about MAGA is fascist in nature.

Accusing Trump of being Hitler 2 and of being a fascist is just more baseless far left extremist hyperbole.
The far left have call all of the Republican presidents Hitler 2 and a fascist.
It is part of the infantile nature of the Regressive Progressives.

NWRatCon said:

To start, I'm not inculcated in the "philosophy" of MAGA. I base my views on the expressions in public discourse, particularly on DP. I'm fervently anti-MAGA on that basis. I'm also a long-time student of fascism and authoritarian movements. Because of that, I've long considered MAGA as just a fascist movement. Indeed, I'm aware of no evidence to refute that. So, I'm starting a thread to entertain arguments to the contrary.

Be advised, however, that claims must be based upon substance, not unsupported conclusory statements. And they are subject to substantive challenge. I'd like to keep this thread out of the basement, so keep your commentary upstairs-worthy.

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I don't think you get how this sort of thing works. Your OP can be effectively summarized as "MAGA IS FASCIST, PROVE ME WRONG!"

MAGA is definitely a fascist movement by every definition of the term but they don't see it. They truly don't see it. They are perfectly OK with unfettered Presidential authority, controlling of a free press, gutting of judicial powers, elimination of free speech, using the government's power against your political enemies, dictating academic curriculum etc. Not just OK , they celebrate it....that's fascism.

It certainly differs from Italian and European fascism in many ways but fascism has always been a fluid ideology which makes it harder to identify and contain.

This time it is America’s richest who wish to directly take over the American government to cement their class rule instead of enlisting the aid of fascists themselves which does give an air of plausible deniability.

When the capitalist class feels their fortunes are at the biggest threat whether from foreign competition or actual socialist revolutions, they will eventually resort to fascism which aims to distract the common interests of working people into a fanatical rage against outsiders. Fascists hate working class organizations because they are organizations of those they class as beneath them which is why they violently suppress all labor unions as they are a threat to capital and the proper hierarchy of the strongest.

In America working class organizations have been decimated to a point where there is little working class power. This has not stopped America’s richest from freaking the **** out in the most paranoid delusions and the only tool the working class has to save themselves from the most exploitative actions of capitalists is the federal government. The rich see the federal government as a threat and know what they are doing is illegal so the bourgeoisie at the top has decided instead of giving donations to politicians, to take it over themselves.

This was also aided by Israel’s far right through AIPAC which figured they could get Trump in power so they can complete the ethnic cleansing of Gaza.

Callen said:

MAGA is definitely a fascist movement by every definition of the term but they don't see it. They truly don't see it. They are perfectly OK with unfettered Presidential authority, controlling of a free press, gutting of judicial powers, elimination of free speech, using the government's power against your political enemies, dictating academic curriculum etc. Not just OK , they celebrate it....that's fascism.

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you are paranoid and delusional

Buster Keaton said:

you are paranoid and delusional

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All of those things are happening as we speak. You can't deny it with any level of credibility. The threats against law firms, judges, universities, news organizations, any organization that dares speak against Trump. Trumpers are justifying it all...that's a fascist movement. I'm not the delusional one , not by a long shot.

What is obvious is right now is the obsession with the plot thats been part of Trump’s campaign since the beginning with Q-anon and his dismantling of education and his war against public intellectuals.

Buster Keaton said:

Accusing Trump of being Hitler 2 and of being a fascist is just more baseless far left extremist hyperbole.
The far left have call all of the Republican presidents Hitler 2 and a fascist.
It is part of the infantile nature of the Regressive Progressives.

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What are the REAL criteria for fascism?

I'm curious what principles Trumpco has

Simon W. Moon said:

I'm curious what principles Trumpco has

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I don't think they know the meaning of that word.

Jetboogieman said:

I don't think they know the meaning of that word.

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I've heard "America first" is supposed to be a principle.

But it sounds like it's merely a slogan, imho

NWRatCon said:

To start, I'm not inculcated in the "philosophy" of MAGA. I base my views on the expressions in public discourse, particularly on DP. I'm fervently anti-MAGA on that basis. I'm also a long-time student of fascism and authoritarian movements. Because of that, I've long considered MAGA as just a fascist movement. Indeed, I'm aware of no evidence to refute that. So, I'm starting a thread to entertain arguments to the contrary.

Be advised, however, that claims must be based upon substance, not unsupported conclusory statements. And they are subject to substantive challenge. I'd like to keep this thread out of the basement, so keep your commentary upstairs-worthy.

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Lol.....topic belongs in the basement/toilet from the jump.
When Trump forces business to close, arrests hairdressers for giving a haircut, arrest surfers for going to the beach, rounds up political opponents and jails them for months/years without trial, forces experimental life threatening shots to keep their jobs, forces girls to compete with males, invites foreign terrorist into the country, allows Democrat brownshirts to loot and burn private and public property, I might start to take you people seriously.

Mycroft said:

Nothing about MAGA is fascist in nature.

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Lol.

That proves you are either ignorant or lying.

Grizzly Adams said:

I don't think you get how this sort of thing works. Your OP can be effectively summarized as "MAGA IS FASCIST, PROVE ME WRONG!"

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So? Get to it.

NolanVoyd said:

Lol.

That proves you are either ignorant or lying.

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Both.

Mycroft said:

Regardless your claim to be a "long-time student of fascism and authoritarian movements", I don't think you really understand what fascism is.

Anyway, to answer your thread title question...

Nothing about MAGA is fascist in nature.

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"claims must be based upon substance, not unsupported conclusory statements"
So far, that's all we've gotten. Kinda proves the point of the OP.

This is the pattern in EVERY thread that discusses MAGA and/or fascism. MAGAnaughts simply cannot defend it. They cannot provide any example to refute the premise, and never have. All you get is this kinda crap. "Nuh-uh" is not an argument.

I should rest my case, but I'll keep the floor open.

.
.
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Something I found interesting. It compares the 1st 100 days of Hitler to Trump.

Done by historians.

The similarities and the differences.

WW

Simon W. Moon said:

I'm curious what principles Trumpco has

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That's what I'm asking, but they never provide any.

I literally made the invitation explicit. "I've long considered MAGA as just a fascist movement. Indeed, I'm aware of no evidence to refute that. So, I'm starting a thread to entertain arguments to the contrary."

None, nada, zilch.

NWRatCon said:

So? Get to it.

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Here is all the evidence I've found that says you're right:

Callen said:

MAGA is definitely a fascist movement by every definition of the term but they don't see it. They truly don't see it. They are perfectly OK with unfettered Presidential authority, controlling of a free press, gutting of judicial powers, elimination of free speech, using the government's power against your political enemies, dictating academic curriculum etc. Not just OK , they celebrate it....that's fascism.

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Buster aside, some of us in the MAGAsphere see, even admire our inherent fascism and want to advance it, but I am on record as preferring a Franco style fascism with aspects of Mussolini when it comes to trains running on schedule.

I am a stickler when it comes to being on time as much as I am when it comes to praising Donald J Trump.

MAGA.

Callen said:

MAGA is definitely a fascist movement by every definition of the term but they don't see it. They truly don't see it.

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Callen said:

They are perfectly OK with unfettered Presidential authority

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Within the Executive branch.
But this has constitutional basis Executive power of the United States shall be vested in a President of the United States").
Which is also democratic at it places accountability in the hands of an elected official.

Callen said:

, controlling of a free press

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The Trump Administration disbanded the censorship office which the Biden Administration set up

Callen said:

, gutting of judicial powers,

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Its not clear what "judicial powers" have been gutted.
Except to the extent of making constitutional arguments that politically elected representatives should be making decisions as much as possible,

Callen said:

elimination of free speech

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As above-- the dismantling of the Biden Admin censorship office by the Trump Admin

Callen said:

, using the government's power against your political enemies,

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Its not clear when the Trump Admin has used its power against its political opponents.
That the Obama and Biden Administration both had criminal investigations into Mr. Trump is well known, as well as that the Biden Admin criminally prosecuted Mr Trump. And of course the criminal prosecutions Mr. Trump faced by political opponents on the state and local level is also well known.

Callen said:

dictating academic curriculum

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The Dept of Education has been doing that for 50 years.
On the theory that you take govt $$$, strings are attached.

Callen said:

etc.

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Callen said:

Not just OK , they celebrate it....that's fascism.

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It seems the problem with the OP and its supporters can't even substantiate Mr. Trumps actions are 'fascis.t'

Just a few examples there are lots more out there.. Trump is using Orban's playbook. Frighten the citizenry, silence the press, persecute your opponents and squash free speech.

Athanasius68 said:

But this has constitutional basis Executive power of the United States shall be vested in a President of the United States").

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I said unfettered. The GOP in Congress are not using their oversight powers to hold Trump accountable abdicating their checks and balance responsibilities. As a result he is issuing illegal EO' , usurping the powers of the purse etc

Athanasius68 said:

The Trump Administration disbanded the censorship office which the Biden Administration set up

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Threatening newspapers with legal action, TV stations their broadcast license and punishing reporters who speak ill of Trump

Athanasius68 said:

Its not clear what "judicial powers" have been gutted.

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He is threatening to impeach judges and limit the scope of their ruling through executive action and congressional action .

Athanasius68 said:

As above-- the dismantling of the Biden Admin censorship office by the Trump Admin

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Punishing students who peacefully protest against Israel

Athanasius68 said:

Its not clear when the Trump Admin has used its power against its political opponents.

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Punishment of legal firms who represented or represent his political enemies. Starting a criminal investigation of a former WH employee who was responsible for election security publicly stated the election in 2020 was free and fair. The flip side is using his powers to pardon violent criminals who supported him Jan 6th

Athanasius68 said:

The Dept of Education has been doing that for 50 years.

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There is a difference between public education and private Universities.

Simon W. Moon said:

What are the REAL criteria for fascism?

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There you will not get a real answer... that's the problem with self-delusion, it conflicts too frequently with reality that IS NOT TO BE FACED.