• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

What needs to be done about the current immigration disaster on the southern border?

Beaudreaux

Preserve Protect Defend
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
18,233
Reaction score
15,861
Location
veni, vidi, volo - now back in NC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I wrote most of this in a thread that Hamster Buddha has in the Breaking News forum about whether Obama should go down to the border, but realized I may inadvertently derail his thread with all this, so I'm putting it here so if anyone wants to discuss this part of the issue we can.

I've done some research over the last couple years about our immigration problem.

I kept hearing one side say "we need Comprehensive Immigration Reform" and the other side say "just enforce the laws that are already on the books and that will take care of it."

Well, I have found, that they're both correct, and they're both wrong. I know... Imagine that.

Here's the deal. We do, in fact, already have most, if not all, of the laws we need already enacted by Congress. But (yeah, there's a but), we also have laws that need to be changed or repealed, and that's where the term Comprehensive Reform comes in for me.

Here are my first five steps. I would like for others to either add, delete or change as you see fit. Please link to examples or to current laws, as I have done.

The first thing Obama should be doing, is getting Congress to change the law that gives people from Central American countries, and other countries other than Mexico, the right to petition for refugee status. Congress passed that law in 2008 as a humanitarian action to stem sex trafficking of kids and other trafficking of people, which is laudable, but is having serious unintended consequences. That law is the William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008. He has already started this, but he's not pushing Congress as hard as he should because he's getting friction from his own party. This is part of the Comprehensive Reform, if you want to call it that.

Second, he needs to rescind his statements that kids that get here or are here can stay here - the DREAM Act rhetoric has lead a lot of people in other countries to think if they can just get their kids here, they can stay, which isn't true, but they think it is. In the same vein, he needs to rescind his EO regarding Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (“DACA”) which he signed in 2012, as part of his implementation of the DREAM Act, which by the way, isn't even a law. The President cannot write law - only Congress can do that.

Thirdly, he needs to start enforcing the laws that are already on the books, like the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA), which already gives him the authority to prosecute companies that employ illegals and requires all employers to do what is now available through e-Verify. If we stop the jobs, there's no reason for them to stay. This is a big talking point for the Democrats, and others, that they say needs to be done... but it's already the law. So enforce it.

Fourth, he needs to take executive action to streamline the Immigration Court System, which is actually not part of the Judicial Branch and is completely under his control as part of the US Justice Department. The current laws, except for the one I listed in the "first thing" paragraph, give him the authority to do so, so except for the kids, he can speed this up. You see? He has the power to write EO's within the Executive Branch as long as they stay within the law already on the books. He obviously has no problem writing EO's. He should have absolutely no problem with this one, and guess what, neither would the Republicans.

Fifth, he needs to get Congress to give him the money to do it, and accept strict Congressional oversight of the operation as allowed by the Constitution. He's already asked for $3.7 billion, but I don't think that's enough. According to USA Today, of that amount, "$1.8 billion, would go to the U.S. Health and Human Services Department to provide appropriate care for the children while in U.S. custody. $1.1 billion would go to the U.S. Homeland Security Department to pay for transporting the children, expanding investigations of immigrant smugglers and pay for the detention and removal of undocumented adults traveling with children. $433 million would go toward stepping up border enforcement, including an increase in air surveillance. The U.S. Justice Department would receive $64 million to hire about 40 additional immigration judges to reduce the backlog of cases that is slowing the process of deportation. $300 million would go to the State Department to pay for repatriating and reintegrating migrants back into their home countries and help the governments in the region better control their borders." Why is it not enough? Well, as one major point, only hiring 40 new judges will not even put a dent in 290,000 individuals cases. Another reason it isn't enough, is that $2.9 Billion of the 3.7 is for keeping the people here - and only $300 Million is for deportation, repatriation and reintegration of the kids back to their home countries - that's only 12% of the total which makes me ask, what's the priority here?

So, that's my first five actions that I feel need to be taken.

And, so far, nowhere have I mentioned Amnesty, although I would accept a reasonable look at legalizing residency without guaranteed citizenship with them paying a fine if they want to stay and going to the very back of the line if they want to go through the process to become a citizen.

What do you think?
 
Last edited:
Re: What needs to be done about the current immigration disaster on the southern bord

I wrote most of this in a thread that Hamster Buddha has in the Breaking News forum about whether Obama should go down to the border, but realized I may inadvertently derail his thread with all this, so I'm putting it here so if anyone wants to discuss this part of the issue we can.

I've done some research over the last couple years about our immigration problem.

I kept hearing one side say "we need Comprehensive Immigration Reform" and the other side say "just enforce the laws that are already on the books and that will take care of it."

Well, I have found, that they're both correct, and they're both wrong. I know... Imagine that.

Here's the deal. We do, in fact, already have most, if not all, of the laws we need already enacted by Congress. But (yeah, there's a but), we also have laws that need to be changed or repealed, and that's where the term Comprehensive Reform comes in for me.

Here are my first five steps. I would like for others to either add, delete or change as you see fit. Please link to examples or to current laws, as I have done.

The first thing Obama should be doing, is getting Congress to change the law that gives people from Central American countries, and other countries other than Mexico, the right to petition for refugee status. Congress passed that law in 2008 as a humanitarian action to stem sex trafficking of kids and other trafficking of people, which is laudable, but is having serious unintended consequences. That law is the William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008. He has already started this, but he's not pushing Congress as hard as he should because he's getting friction from his own party. This is part of the Comprehensive Reform, if you want to call it that.

Second, he needs to rescind his statements that kids that get here or are here can stay here - the DREAM Act rhetoric has lead a lot of people in other countries to think if they can just get their kids here, they can stay, which isn't true, but they think it is. In the same vein, he needs to rescind his EO regarding Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (“DACA”) which he signed in 2012, as part of his implementation of the DREAM Act, which by the way, isn't even a law. The President cannot write law - only Congress can do that.

Thirdly, he needs to start enforcing the laws that are already on the books, like the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA), which already gives him the authority to prosecute companies that employ illegals and requires all employers to do what is now available through e-Verify. If we stop the jobs, there's no reason for them to stay. This is a big talking point for the Democrats, and others, that they say needs to be done... but it's already the law. So enforce it.

Fourth, he needs to take executive action to streamline the Immigration Court System, which is actually not part of the Judicial Branch and is completely under his control as part of the US Justice Department. The current laws, except for the one I listed in the "first thing" paragraph, give him the authority to do so, so except for the kids, he can speed this up. You see? He has the power to write EO's within the Executive Branch as long as they stay within the law already on the books. He obviously has no problem writing EO's. He should have absolutely no problem with this one, and guess what, neither would the Republicans.

Fifth, he needs to get Congress to give him the money to do it, and accept strict Congressional oversight of the operation as allowed by the Constitution. He's already asked for $3.7 billion, but I don't think that's enough. According to USA Today, of that amount, "$1.8 billion, would go to the U.S. Health and Human Services Department to provide appropriate care for the children while in U.S. custody. $1.1 billion would go to the U.S. Homeland Security Department to pay for transporting the children, expanding investigations of immigrant smugglers and pay for the detention and removal of undocumented adults traveling with children. $433 million would go toward stepping up border enforcement, including an increase in air surveillance. The U.S. Justice Department would receive $64 million to hire about 40 additional immigration judges to reduce the backlog of cases that is slowing the process of deportation. $300 million would go to the State Department to pay for repatriating and reintegrating migrants back into their home countries and help the governments in the region better control their borders." Why is it not enough? Well, as one major point, only hiring 40 new judges will not even put a dent in 290,000 individuals cases. Another reason it isn't enough, is that $2.9 Billion of the 3.7 is for keeping the people here - and only $300 Million is for deportation, repatriation and reintegration of the kids back to their home countries - that's only 12% of the total which makes me ask, what's the priority here?

So, that's my first five actions that I feel need to be taken.

And, so far, nowhere have I mentioned Amnesty, although I would accept a reasonable look at legalizing residency without guaranteed citizenship with them paying a fine if they want to stay and going to the very back of the line if they want to go through the process to become a citizen.

What do you think?



I think that's a great start in the right direction, if they can actually pull their heads out of their asses and just do it. I swear they cry and throw more dramatic tantrums than when I ask my tired hungry 6 year old to make her bed.

Another thing that needs to be addressed and changed immediately is the "anchor baby." The main problem I have with that law is that a mother and father can be here illegally but have 5 kids under 10 that are legal and I would not want to separate them and then yet again the laws don't get enforced properly.
 
Re: What needs to be done about the current immigration disaster on the southern bord

In the same vein, he needs to rescind his EO regarding Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (“DACA”) which he signed in 2012, as part of his implementation of the DREAM Act, which by the way, isn't even a law. The President cannot write law - only Congress can do that.

In truth, DACA wasn't an EO, but an example of prosecutorial discretion, a rule issued by Janet Napolitano.
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/...on-individuals-who-came-to-us-as-children.pdf
2012 Executive Orders Signed by Barack Obama
 
Re: What needs to be done about the current immigration disaster on the southern bord

I think that's a great start in the right direction, if they can actually pull their heads out of their asses and just do it. I swear they cry and throw more dramatic tantrums than when I ask my tired hungry 6 year old to make her bed.

Another thing that needs to be addressed and changed immediately is the "anchor baby." The main problem I have with that law is that a mother and father can be here illegally but have 5 kids under 10 that are legal and I would not want to separate them and then yet again the laws don't get enforced properly.

Anchor babies are a real problem. The 14th Amendment, specifically Section 1, was enacted to allow for any former slave that was born in the US to be granted citizenship.

It needs to be clarified, at the very least, to state that a person born in the US, to parents, or at at least one parent, that is already a US citizens, is a citizen. Others born here to parents that are not US citizens, may need to be treated differently. However, this is a very delicate and tricky problem to address, and I don't know how to word it so that there aren't even more problems that arise later.
 
Re: What needs to be done about the current immigration disaster on the southern bord

One must start by facing the fact that Obama does not see a problem on the southern border that needs to be fixed.

The destruction of America's borders and resultant cultural destruction are part of Obama's "transformation of America."

That is the "Enemy within" reality for which Americans must find a solution.

Seeking pleasant faculty lounge solutions when the invasion and destruction of the American way of life is in extremis is fun and wins friends, but ignores the demands of immediate reality.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom