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How many people have an abnormality like, and extra finger, toe, or are born with out a limb? I'd say that happens but I wouldn't call it normal.Another poster kind of, sort of, made a thread about this, but framed it in a condescending fashion. Before you my title question, consider the following information:
1. Before the 20th century, we defined men and women in western, non-Native American society as penis vs. vagina. In the 20th century, we discovered sex chromosomes and found 6 different potential pairs.
2. We have intersex people. They were both with both genitals and can either have XX or XY chromosomes. There are even people who were born with XY chromosomes, but have a vagina. If we purely define men vs. women based on "inter-plumbing" concepts, then how do we categorize people with alternative biological bodies?
3. How does transgender, non-binary/two-spirit fit into the equation? These are people who are scientifically have an unaligned body and mind. Study after study have shown that transgender people have a different brain composition than a typical male or female brain.
4. If you were to ask somebody to draw a picture of a man and woman, would the picture be about culturally differences (appearance, activities, emotions) or about genitals?
5. Statistically speaking, transgender, non-binary, and intersex people make up less than 1% of the U.S population.
There's no easy answer here. It is a philosophical question for the most part. I can see people arguing "biological", but with allowing exceptions for the small minority.
Simple. Men are adult human males women are adult human females. Males fertilize females and females gestate offspring.Another poster kind of, sort of, made a thread about this, but framed it in a condescending fashion. Before you my title question, consider the following information:
1. Before the 20th century, we defined men and women in western, non-Native American society as penis vs. vagina. In the 20th century, we discovered sex chromosomes and found 6 different potential pairs.
2. We have intersex people. They were both with both genitals and can either have XX or XY chromosomes. There are even people who were born with XY chromosomes, but have a vagina. If we purely define men vs. women based on "inter-plumbing" concepts, then how do we categorize people with alternative biological bodies?
3. How does transgender, non-binary/two-spirit fit into the equation? These are people who are scientifically have an unaligned body and mind. Study after study have shown that transgender people have a different brain composition than a typical male or female brain.
4. If you were to ask somebody to draw a picture of a man and woman, would the picture be about culturally differences (appearance, activities, emotions) or about genitals?
5. Statistically speaking, transgender, non-binary, and intersex people make up less than 1% of the U.S population.
There's no easy answer here. It is a philosophical question for the most part. I can see people arguing "biological", but with allowing exceptions for the small minority.
Not sure what you're trying to say/prove. Does this mean an "abnormal person" couldn't be classified as a real person or not enjoy the same rights as the majority? Transgender, non-binary/two-spirit, intersex, and people with "alternative sex chromosomes" only represent a a very tiny portion of our society. How would you classify those types of people? Obviously they do not fall under a traditional definition. In other words, should there be a third or fourth category.How many people have an abnormality like, and extra finger, toe, or are born with out a limb? I'd say that happens but I wouldn't call it normal.
Another poster kind of, sort of, made a thread about this, but framed it in a condescending fashion. Before you my title question, consider the following information:
1. Before the 20th century, we defined men and women in western, non-Native American society as penis vs. vagina. In the 20th century, we discovered sex chromosomes and found 6 different potential pairs.
2. We have intersex people. They were both with both genitals and can either have XX or XY chromosomes. There are even people who were born with XY chromosomes, but have a vagina. If we purely define men vs. women based on "inter-plumbing" concepts, then how do we categorize people with alternative biological bodies?
3. How does transgender, non-binary/two-spirit fit into the equation? These are people who are scientifically have an unaligned body and mind. Study after study have shown that transgender people have a different brain composition than a typical male or female brain.
4. If you were to ask somebody to draw a picture of a man and woman, would the picture be about culturally differences (appearance, activities, emotions) or about genitals?
5. Statistically speaking, transgender, non-binary, and intersex people make up less than 1% of the U.S population.
There's no easy answer here. It is a philosophical question for the most part. I can see people arguing "biological", but with allowing exceptions for the small minority.
What is the difference between men and women? Is it biological, cultural, or both?
Men usually don’t grow up until 30. Women are about ten years ahead of them.
The difference between male and female is very biological. Gender roles are social constructs but gender is very biological, both our genitalia and our psychological gender identity.
Incorrect. You apparently have misinformation on transgender individuals. This is why people are calling you out. When you don't understand concepts, it's hard for you to comprehend what a trans person could be feeling and their perceptive of the world.I was trying to separate social stereotypes from biological sex. The transgender movement does NOT separate these things. The social stereotypes are traditional, and based on the fact that females have babies. Those traditions no longer have to be followed. So you could be a man in a typically female career, and wear typically female clothes, if you want. You don't have to try and turn yourself into the opposite sex. Just be whatever you feel you are.
My point of view is liberal and modern, but the transgender point of view is stuck in old stereotypes.
Incorrect. You apparently have misinformation on transgender individuals. This is why people are calling you out. When you don't understand concepts, it's hard for you to comprehend what a trans person could be feeling and their perceptive of the world.
The word "transgender" means movement from one gender to another. In other words, movement from ones assigned gender to ones natural gender. It doesn't mean moving from one sex to another. Those would be "transsexuals".
It is important that we separate the concept of gender vs. sex. Transgender people are well-aware of their biological sex. They are arguing (and the science) is that some people are psychologically one thing, and biologically another. More over, neurological science has consistently shown that transgender people have brains shaped differently than a typical male or typical female brain.
You have also haven't grasp the concept of gender dysphoria. It has nothing to do with bullying or "parental push" or stereotypes. We're talking about the discomfort between what the brain says vs. what the body says.
Interesting. I just typed in "transgender brain" into google, and came up with at least 7 different studies. Here's one.Show us the neurological science that says a transgender brain is shaped differently. I found just the opposite.
There is no difference between gender identity and social gender stereotypes. It is a social stereotype that women wear dresses. In ancient times, both sexes wore dresses. So you are telling me the desire to wear a dress is something biologically determined somehow by the shape of the brain. Just ridiculous.
So gender is just clothing? Why would there be a need for therapy and hormone replacement and surgery if it's just clothingNot all women dress the same. Not all men dress the same. I suggest that by decorating the body differently, and of course hiding the genitals, everyone expresses a different gender from everyone else.
The concept of brain sex differences is highly debatable. Further it's likely the case that there isn't a distinguishing structure in the brain between males and females.Interesting. I just typed in "transgender brain" into google, and came up with at least 7 different studies. Here's one.
Understanding Gender Identity
There’s so much diversity in how we identify ourselves and the way we express love for one another. Understanding gender identity can only aid us in our journey to better know ourselves, and others.health.clevelandclinic.org
But as a neuroscientist long experienced in the field, I recently completed a painstaking analysis of 30 years of research on human brain sex differences. And what I found, with the help of excellent collaborators, is that virtually none of these claims has proven reliable.
Except for the simple difference in size, there are no meaningful differences between men’s and women’s brain structure or activity that hold up across diverse populations. Nor do any of the alleged brain differences actually explain the familiar but modest differences in personality and abilities between men and women.
You Don’t Have a "Male or Female Brain": Studies Weaken Theories of Human Brain Sex Differences - Neuroscience News
Recent studies dispel the myth of sexual dimorphic brains.neurosciencenews.com
Never heard of Neutrosciencenews.com. Not sure what they mean by "recent studies" or if this is a credible news source. But if you google transgender brains, they literally have over 10 studies on the issue -- all dated within the last 3 years. They have noticed there's something structurally different with a transgender brain compared to a typical male or female. And btw, the studies happened with credible organizations. They are .org and .edu, not .com.The concept of brain sex differences is highly debatable. Further it's likely the case that there isn't a distinguishing structure in the brain between males and females.
Strawman alert. Nobody is arguing gender is "just clothing". It has to do with expression and behavior tendency. We can hopefully agree with the concept of: Genitals don't determine our sense of style and personal pronouns.So gender is just clothing? Why would there be a need for therapy and hormone replacement and surgery if it's just clothing
The gender brain differences are debatable if you don't want to discuss it don't present it on a discussion forum.Never heard of Neutrosciencenews.com. Not sure what they mean by "recent studies" or if this is a credible news source. But if you google transgender brains, they literally have over 10 studies on the issue -- all dated within the last 3 years. They have noticed there's something structurally different with a transgender brain compared to a typical male or female. And btw, the studies happened with credible organizations. They are .org and .edu, not .com.
Even if you throw away all the studies from credible sources out the window, it is seems pretty "no kidding" that somebody who is experiencing gender dysphoria is experiencing it because their brain and body do not align. You have to think to yourself "Why are some people experiencing a disconnect?" We see people know they are transgender before they enter school.
Here's some more to chew on:
Gene variants provide insight into brain, body incongruence in transgender
Some of the first biological evidence of the incongruence transgender individuals experience, because their brain indicates they are one sex and their body another, may have been found in estrogen receptor pathways in the brain of 30 transgender individuals.jagwire.augusta.edu
it was a question. Questions aren't strawman fallacies.Strawman alert. Nobody is arguing gender is "just clothing". It has to do with expression and behavior tendency.
People normally don't use pronouns it's how others refer to them. You don't get to dictate other's speech.We can hopefully agree with the concept of: Genitals don't determine our sense of style and personal pronouns.
I'm not really interested in how you cherry pick what sources your accept and which ones you don't.Never heard of Neutrosciencenews.com. Not sure what they mean by "recent studies" or if this is a credible news source. But if you google transgender brains, they literally have over 10 studies on the issue -- all dated within the last 3 years. They have noticed there's something structurally different with a transgender brain compared to a typical male or female. And btw, the studies happened with credible organizations. They are .org and .edu, not .com.
Even historically speaking that hasn't always been true. Even during the Medieval era, Joan of Arc was a peasant woman who became a military leader, though it would've been extremely rare.Or a woman. What does it mean to be one gender or the other. Aside from physical and reproductive differences, what does it mean to be male or female?
In almost every known human society, males are the warriors and hunters, and females gather plants and take care of their babies. There are obvious physical reasons for this.
That wouldn't explain where it came from to begin with, though. So even when they are "learned", they're merely learned from things that were already pre-existent to begin with.In our modern society, these traditional roles have evolved. Men have a tendency to go into certain kinds of work, and women generally prefer other kinds. But now it is acceptable for men to be nurses and for women to be construction workers, although it is not very common.
Are we born with these preferences, or are they mostly learned from observing others? A little girl sees what her mother, sisters, female friends, all like to do and she may imitate it. And boys may imitate their fathers, brother, friends, etc.
There's no rationale behind forcing a boy to "live as a girl" simply because he likes something which is "stereotypically" associated with women. (When in reality, there are plenty of men who are often considered among the best even among hobbies or interests associated more with women, such as cooking and the large number of male professional chefs).Should this little boy be allowed to live his life as a girl, so he can do and wear the things he likes, without worrying about being judged by the bullies? And if he does live as a girl, what happens when he becomes a teenager and starts looking like a male?
The notion of "tolerance" that you're asserting seems rather histrionic and unrealistic. In the real world (beyond may the lowest common denominator of GED dropouts, socially-impaired losers, and other freaks who remain emotionally-stunted in junior high school for their entire "adult" lives) a man is admired if he's successful at anything - whether it's sterotypically "macho" or not - such as a professional career in singing, acting, dancing, or culinary pursuits. Just as a woman who is successful in sports, the business world or other endeavors is. Even most people who may have done some "bullying" at some time in their young lives eventually grow out of that as well.If society were more tolerant of variations in social gender roles, then maybe gender dysphoria would not occur.
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