uptower
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For instance if someone claims they are female in gender, becasue they feel strong e emotions, or like the touch of a strong man, it seems to deminish someone else who claims female gender yet isn’t emotional and doesn’t like men.
Gender is becoming a personal choice like race or ethnicity.
It seems the idea of gender is vague. And that there is inherent contradiction within progressive thought on this issue.
Do you 'like' the touch of a strong man?
Does it mean whatever one wants it to mean? Or is it objective?
Yep, but does that mean that one should be able to self-identify as a senior (or youth) to get a discounted meal? How about claiming social security benefits when one feels that they should be able to retire - after all, age is just a number on a government document just as gender is just a word (or letter) on one. Should anyone (everyone?) be able to self-declare as a minority to get special treatment on a government contract by having a minority owned business?
I can believe it has a hormonal, chemical basis. If so, it's objective.
I dont know.
I think you have a lot to learn on the issue. "Vague" is the word for someone who doesn't understand it, not that it actually is that vague. But a basic concept is the difference between 'biological gender' and 'gender identity', which usually match, but not always.
Yes I have heard Thst many times. What is gender identity? Is it objective, or s social construct?
I'm pretty sure it's largely it's at least largely objective, since it happens randomly to a seemingly somewhat consistent low percent of people anywhere, and without any social queues or pressures for it, in fact very much against them - and is detectable at very young ages before any real learning of gender identity is understood. Of course, social influences have an effect on people. Just as with things like homosexuality, where some desperately try to not be homosexual, to no avail.
It seems the idea of gender is vague. And that there is inherent contradiction within progressive thought on this issue.
On the one hand, gender stereotypes are frowned upon and equality is emphasized, on the other hand, the very idea of claiming to be a gender infers some kind of stereotype.
So what does it mean to be a male, or female gender?
It seems any description one would give, could be seen as an insulting stereotype to someone else claiming that gender, but lacks that quality just claimed.
For instance if someone claims they are female in gender, becasue they feel strong e emotions, or like the touch of a strong man, it seems to deminish someone else who claims female gender yet isnt emotional and doesnt like men.
It seems the logical conclusion is gender is purely construct, and subjective.
but if it’s subjective, why make a big deal about it when others disagree?
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That has to do with the physical body, not the gender. Gender flex is the term for those who are both.There are. Google "hermaphrodite."
Should we allow adding age and income to those self-defined traits? So long as laws are applied differently based on a trait then their need to be established standards which can be used by others (all?) to determine them. I think you may be confusing what I (or any person is) am with who I am (or any person is).
What specific issues to you see for gender identification?
The only one I really see is sports.
I am asking what the concept of gender indentity is. Is it an objective thing, or just a social construct.
Restrooms should not be an issue. You're either standing at a urinal or sitting in a stall. If anyone is trying to look at you, or you are looking at anyone, that is the problem right there, gender and sex not a component. Same can be said about military fitness standards. Either you can do the 100 push ups or you can't. Gender nor sex enters into it.Hmm... how about public restroom/shower access, jail/prison cohabitation, the military draft and military "fitnness" standards?
While age and income are objective values in and of themselves, if one does not possess the information, determination can be very subjective indeed. I am usually seen as about 5 to 8 years younger than I am. My wife, who is 7 years older, is typically seen as younger than they think I am. That said, these are externally objective values, and are not inherent traits.
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Restrooms should not be an issue. You're either standing at a urinal or sitting in a stall. If anyone is trying to look at you, or you are looking at anyone, that is the problem right there, gender and sex not a component. Same can be said about military fitness standards. Either you can do the 100 push ups or you can't. Gender nor sex enters into it.
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And the political point of this thread?It seems the idea of gender is vague. And that there is inherent contradiction within progressive thought on this issue.
On the one hand, gender stereotypes are frowned upon and equality is emphasized, on the other hand, the very idea of claiming to be a gender infers some kind of stereotype.
So what does it mean to be a male, or female gender?
It seems any description one would give, could be seen as an insulting stereotype to someone else claiming that gender, but lacks that quality just claimed.
For instance if someone claims they are female in gender, becasue they feel strong e emotions, or like the touch of a strong man, it seems to deminish someone else who claims female gender yet isn’t emotional and doesn’t like men.
It seems the logical conclusion is gender is purely construct, and subjective.
but if it’s subjective, why make a big deal about it when others disagree?
Tags:
Thus the (legal?) requirement that age and gender are currently determined at birth. If one is free to self-assign some other "determination" based on their personal feelings (opinion?) then those traits become indeterminate and rather fluid. Income/asset value is also left to outside (government?) definition and determination and cannot simply be self-designated based on personal preference (some laws refer to that as fraud).
They certainly do take some more consideration. Given that the Israeli military has coed barracks where men and women shower and bunk together with no issues, certainly we can arrive at a point where at least shower/locker room facilities no longer require sex separation. We might even be eventually be able to say that of the prison system. But given the now openness of gays, how is separation preventing any kind of sexual assault, physical or visual?Hmm... by selecting only some elements of my post to try to refute in your reply, are you consenting to the validity of the rest?
Gender is becoming a personal choice like race or ethnicity.
Thus the (legal?) requirement that age and gender are currently determined at birth. If one is free to self-assign some other "determination" based on their personal feelings (opinion?) then those traits become indeterminate and rather fluid. Income/asset value is also left to outside (government?) definition and determination and cannot simply be self-designated based on personal preference (some laws refer to that as fraud).
I am waiting for the day when I can say I am a millionaire and voila...it's true just because I say it is...:2razz:
It seems the idea of gender is vague. And that there is inherent contradiction within progressive thought on this issue.
On the one hand, gender stereotypes are frowned upon and equality is emphasized, on the other hand, the very idea of claiming to be a gender infers some kind of stereotype.
So what does it mean to be a male, or female gender?
It seems any description one would give, could be seen as an insulting stereotype to someone else claiming that gender, but lacks that quality just claimed.
For instance if someone claims they are female in gender, becasue they feel strong e emotions, or like the touch of a strong man, it seems to deminish someone else who claims female gender yet isn’t emotional and doesn’t like men.
It seems the logical conclusion is gender is purely construct, and subjective.
but if it’s subjective, why make a big deal about it when others disagree?
Tags:
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