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All that culture, all that political independence, all that sovereignty, all that free will, all will soon be gone: Polish president ratifies EU treaty - , - Latest news & weather forecasts - MSN News UK
Just one more traitorous European president betraying his people before we become a-national serfs.
Eurowankers claim that 'Well that's Democracy, Public. The elected politicians signed our national death warrants on our behalf, rulers in their positions only because we voted'. We're told to just lump it, but we were never directly asked to become part of what can only be described as the EUSSR, nor were any politicians campaigning on the ticket of enslaving their country.
Hopefully the Czech's will delay this long enough for Cameron to come into power and hopefully, though most unlikely, keep his promise of putting the treaty to popular vote.
Why was the UK not given the right to vote, but other countries were?
They where not.
The Lisbon treaty was called the Lisbon contitution but renamed again because the majority of European nations have to put the ratification of a constitution to popular vote because of their own constitutional laws.
It was renamed the Lisbon treaty so those bastards could get the law passed without governments having to put it to popular vote and trash the EU's hopes of transferring more power to Brussels. But the Irish constitution clearly states;
"any treaty that infringes national sovereignty must be put to a referendum".
Any other European nation who had to put the treaty to popular vote did so because of constitutional redtape, or their leader had an ounce of decency in him/her. Unfortunately, in Britain, our constitution does not state treaties that infringe on national soverign must be put to popular vote. And Brown is known for his indecency and is inconvienent leadership.
So, most of the countries didn't vote? I knew about the Irish, cuz they re-jected it and had to have a re-vote, but I haven't heard too much else about it.
If im not mistaken i think most countries voted for the Lisbon constitution and Ireland said no along with France, so it was modified a bit, for example making it a "treaty", so France and co. wouldnt be forced to put it to popular vote and risk the chance of getting it blocked again, all except Ireland. So the EU got a bit panicky this year with the Irish but it managed to pass, suprisingly enough.
You are mistaken. Only the Irish had a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.
Not even the Czechs or Poles had referendums.. kinda funny considering it is those 2 governments that have been the most vocal. If they wanted to kill it, then hold a referendum right?..
This is a good day for europe! Just one penstroke, and a dream becomes true.
I was talking about the constitution when the French said no.
No. You are better off delaying it rather than putting it to the people to decide, if your anti-EU then you realize it could well pass if you did hold a referendum. The Czechs government is the most vocal though it could still recieve enough yes's to pass, regardless, putting it to a referendum is running a risk. So it makes sense the Czech government is delaying it, probably to see if the English will actually hold a referendum and screw Brussels over further, though its more likely that rather then wait for Cameron to come to power the Czech government will compromise with the Lisbon treaty (that would involve denying key chapters of the treaty). This is what they claim to want anyway. Whether its just a ploy to delay or not, or if they are actually willing to pass Lisbon but under certain conditions, is yet unclear.
Okay but lets be clear that is not the Lisbon Treaty. There are considerable key differences. So key differences that most countries did not have to do a referendum because there were no big legal changes in the Lisbon Treaty vs the Constitution.
But yes, most nations had or had planed referendums for the EU constitution due to it being a whole new document/treaty that required it. The Lisbon Treaty is in principle nothing but amendments to the present treaty, amendments that were needed since the EU had expanded.
LOL so on one hand you are pissed the Brits did not get a referendum but you are okay that the Czechs and Poles did not either because there was a large chance of it passing there? So you are fine with a single man holding up the whole thing (was 2 men)? Talk about having anti-democratic attitudes
Or perhaps Private Hudson is horsing around with such a lunatic comment, knowing that it's a sensitive one amongst we freedom-lovers.
Berk.
What kind of hideous dislike of free nation states powers a thought like that?
I'm a "freedom-lover, too.
More than 50 years european integration, more than 50 years of freedom!
How are you any more free, as an indivisual? Or are you referring to the "gaurentee of freedom" by the ECHR, the most biased insitution on the planet.
How are you any more free, as an indivisual? Or are you referring to the "gaurentee of freedom" by the ECHR, the most biased insitution on the planet.
The charter’s preamble states that its purpose is to create a closer union among the peoples of Europe and to share a peaceful future based on common values. The European Union, the preamble continues, is founded on the indivisible, universal values of human dignity, freedom, equality, and solidarity; it is based on the principles of democracy and the rule of law. It places the individual at the heart of its activities, by establishing the citizenship of the Union and creating an area of freedom, security, and justice.
And you believe those liars? All it's been a closer union of is of the Establishments of these nations.
And these are hardly the same as being representative of the people.
The Emerging European Soviet: The European Union-Adding New Members and Completing a Constitution-Threatens the Freedom of Europe and Foreshadows Similar Processes under Way with the FTAA
The differences have been stated already by me:
The EU constitution needs to be ratified by EU members who have such constitutional requirements, which involves the majority of EU states, a treaty does not, unless the constitution, in this case Irelands constitution, says otherwise. Its why the elitists fiddled about with the constitution and made it a "treaty", so EU nations wouldnt have to put the treaty to popular vote because they know its going to get rejected somewhere down the line. Its clever, elitist tactics.
Did the constitution want more power for Brussels? Yes.
Does the treaty want more power for Brussels? Yes.
For as long as that rings true, nothing you can do to the treaty will significantly distance itself from what the consitution was. If it hands more soverign over to Brussels, we dont give a shit how much more different you claim it to be.
No thats not why. Most countries planned a referendum because their constitution demanded of it.
What the EU needs is a more efficient budget
and less expansion, especially into countries who politically are quiet divided with other members or with nations who have a large anti-EU crowd.
Then united decision making becomes tougher, and the need for more power in Brussels becomes more so. Less insitutions and less say for member states is not the way to go.
Did i say i was fine with that? At the end of the day, i dont believe its right that a group of indivisuals should have the chance to make a nation changing decision without the say of the people who make the state and who will live in the state, and who's children will go on to live in it. If it gets accepted by a popular vote then fine its what the people want - im not going to hurl myself at that country and say its counter to their interests to have the soveirgn sucked out of them. But for countries who DONT want it and DONT get the chance to vote on it, i think its just morally wrong and well, democratically disgusting. Thanks to the EU. Which is supposed to bring us more "democracy". Its ideology is based completely on power and market expansion. The people who make Europe come somewhere last on the list of EU priorities.
The Czechs government is the most vocal though it could still recieve enough yes's to pass, regardless, putting it to a referendum is running a risk. So it makes sense the Czech government is delaying it,
Wrong on so many levels. The constitution was a whole new document and that was the point. They took the old EU treaty ripped it up and started over. Hence all countries needed to ratify via a referendum since they were entering into a new union under a new treaty.
The Treaty is nothing more than house keeping really.
Gone are the aspects of Federalism that I was against in the Constitution, gone are things like having a flag (silly thing to kick out but hey) and gone is a whole new text.
Instead we have amendments that accept the realities of the EU today, that we have more members than when the old treaty was written. On top of that, they have added things like human rights and what not, something you had to live up to any ways to join the block in the first place.
The biggest change is the role of "President", but that is also an administrative change and in no way a monumental change in the relationship between countries and the EU. The role of "President" existed in the old treaty also.
Where exactly does the treaty, not the constitution give "more power to Brussels"? You keep saying so without proving it.
Again, where... prove it.
Yes it is why. The constitution was a whole new document, hence a referendum was needed in most countries.
Which is exactly what the Lisbon treaty is doing.. cutting red tape.
Hey I agree some what, Romania and Bulgaria were not ready in my opinion. But I am guessing you are complaining more about the Poles..
You do know that the EU parliament gets MORE power in the Lisbon treaty right? People YOU elect get more power to represent you.. and you are complaining over "less say"?
You did at least indirectly.
And you'll even be denied permission for mere protest marches by the Brussels authorities if they don't agree with you too.
This is pretty funny! The "Thank you" Connection. :mrgreen:
Republic_Of_Public says Thank You to kaya'08
and
kaya'08 says Thank You to Republic_Of_Public
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