We need to respect each other's humanity over our politics

[DifferentDrummr]

This point was made very well in an advice column, responding to a young man who wrote in to say "My father is a right-wing a-hole!"

IMO, both those on the right and left ought to read the response in its entirety.

Ask Andrew W.K.: My Dad Is a Right-Wing Asshole | Village Voice

 

[Respecthelect]

Progressive's and liberal's (mostly young people) think they have discovered a great new way of doing things that nobody's ever thought of before. They also think that digging dirt and converting it to cars and kitchen appliances is destroying the planet. Nothing could be further from the truth. These liberals totally miss truth.

Before America, the world ran entirely by central planning. Progressives think that if only we had a smart enough and benevolent enough dictator, then he could get things accomplished "for the people." And this is exactly the way hundreds of countries ran for thousands of years. One dictator after another. Until America came along. America said, enough. Enough with the dictators and enough with central planning.

America grew and prospered. When America started, over 95% of the country and the world were farmers, scratching out a meager existence. Poverty, pestilence and squalor were the norm. But, America changed all that. By adopting "right-wing" principles of freedom, America achieved the highest standard of living the world had ever seen. Taken for granted by today's progressives, this American revolution raised billions of people out of poverty.

Now the progressive liberal asks us to return to central planning? He points to the relatively minor bad-actors (e.g. slavery, pollution, etc.) as examples of why freedom can't be allowed, yet he forgets pollution and slavery existed (and still exists) under central planning? Right-wing America cleaned up its pollution and eliminated slavery on its own, so these minor quibbles are no justification to return to the dictatorships of socialism or communism. The filthiest countries in the world are run by central planners, because without private ownership, nobody cares about taking care of property.

Yes, there is a fundamental battle for the future between young "progressive liberals" and the "right-wing." And the battle must be fought, not papered-over as the article suggests. Either we are going to be free (as the right-wing advocates) or we are going to have dictators, as the progressives want? There is almost no middle ground. Half a dictator makes everyone mad. And that's exactly what we have today; half a dictator.

 

[DifferentDrummr]

Before America, the world ran entirely by central planning. Progressives think that if only we had a smart enough and benevolent enough dictator, then he could get things accomplished "for the people." And this is exactly the way hundreds of countries ran for thousands of years. One dictator after another. Until America came along. America said, enough. Enough with the dictators and enough with central planning.

Dictatorship and central planning are not the same things at all, actually. The first nation to seriously attempt to implement central planning was the Soviet Union, who proved that it doesn't work.

Dictatorship doesn't work either, of course. But that's about all they have in common.

 

[Bob N]

Before America, the world ran entirely by central planning. Progressives think that if only we had a smart enough and benevolent enough dictator, then he could get things accomplished "for the people." And this is exactly the way hundreds of countries ran for thousands of years. One dictator after another. Until America came along. America said, enough. Enough with the dictators and enough with central planning.

In October of 26th 2001 George Bush signed in to law something called the Patriot Act. You mean to tell me that is not central planning? :roll:

 

[Summerwind]

This point was made very well in an advice column, responding to a young man who wrote in to say "My father is a right-wing a-hole!"

IMO, both those on the right and left ought to read the response in its entirety.

Ask Andrew W.K.: My Dad Is a Right-Wing Asshole | Village Voice

Except that many extreme right wingers don't seem to have any humanity except for their own very narrow interests. Respect is earned, not given, most wingers have not and likely will not earn respect from those that have a world view larger than the mirror.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Dictatorship and central planning are not the same things at all, actually. The first nation to seriously attempt to implement central planning was the Soviet Union, who proved that it doesn't work.

Dictatorship doesn't work either, of course. But that's about all they have in common.

Whether it is a dictator or monarch or pope or totalitarian committee or elected government, if that government calls the shots or has the power to call the shots as to how society will be organized and how people will be required to live their lives, it is central planning. And Respecttheelect had it absolutely right that the whole world operated under a concept of central planning before the Founders of the USA had a different vision and gave us a country in which the government secured our rights and then left us alone to live our lives, govern ourselves, and form whatever sorts of societies we wanted to have. And it indeed produced the most productive, innovative, creative, prosperous, generous, and free nation the world has ever seen.

And nevertheless the progressives/centrists/statists/leftists/liberals among us are all gung go to return us to central planning as fast as they can make it happen.

 

[_Sal]

Except that many extreme right wingers don't seem to have any humanity except for their own very narrow interests. Respect is earned, not given, most wingers have not and likely will not earn respect from those that have a world view larger than the mirror.

while that is true, there comes a time when one realize (if lucky) that others die and while we all yet live, there are times that opinions can be set aside and enjoyment found even if we have to concede in order to have that peace...then we know we have created a tiny bit of harmony for the planet, ourselves and others.

Sometimes being right, is too high of a price to pay for later regrets.

 

[Helix]

family is family, even if they support stupid **** that pisses you off.

also, people who disagree about political bull**** can still be buds. yeah, they might ignite you into a fiery rage, but ****ing deal with it, have a damned beer with them, and go do something fun. and while doing something fun with them, talk about something else. life is too short, and we're going to be dead forever. might as well have some fun and enjoy good company.

 

[Summerwind]

while that is true, there comes a time when one realize (if lucky) that others die and while we all yet live, there are times that opinions can be set aside and enjoyment found even if we have to concede in order to have that peace...then we know we have created a tiny bit of harmony for the planet, ourselves and others.

Sometimes being right, is too high of a price to pay for later regrets.

Not to my value system. I have no desire to find enjoyment with self-centered rich, old, white men who demand others recognize their imagined superiority or those sheeple that worship their every lie and deception.

I will have no regrets regarding this concept.

 

[Ockham]

A very good OP article and I would love the believe the sentiment and actions could come true. Alas, I believe pandora's box has been opened and the hate, disgust and dehumanization of one side and the other may be too wide of a gap to bridge at this point. Perhaps a figure yet to be determined has the courage and ability to bridge that gap and gain the trust of both sides, but to me that is a pipe dream. The reality of many is that one side is hell bent on destruction of the world through their world views and policies.

No matter how bad someone may appear, they are truly no worse than us. Our beliefs and behavior don't make us fundamentally better than others, no matter how satisfying it is to believe otherwise. We must be tireless in our efforts to see things from the point of view we most disagree with.

At one time early in the 2008 campaign I thought this figure just might be Obama. Within 6 months I knew I was very wrong. The derision and ability to demonize and ideologue that has come from Obama has further polarized the electorate to near Hatfield and McCoy levels. I don't see that changing any time soon and if anything, it will get worse.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Progressive's and liberal's (mostly young people) think they have discovered a great new way of doing things that nobody's ever thought of before. They also think that digging dirt and converting it to cars and kitchen appliances is destroying the planet. Nothing could be further from the truth. These liberals totally miss truth.

Before America, the world ran entirely by central planning. Progressives think that if only we had a smart enough and benevolent enough dictator, then he could get things accomplished "for the people." And this is exactly the way hundreds of countries ran for thousands of years. One dictator after another. Until America came along. America said, enough. Enough with the dictators and enough with central planning.

America grew and prospered. When America started, over 95% of the country and the world were farmers, scratching out a meager existence. Poverty, pestilence and squalor were the norm. But, America changed all that. By adopting "right-wing" principles of freedom, America achieved the highest standard of living the world had ever seen. Taken for granted by today's progressives, this American revolution raised billions of people out of poverty.

Now the progressive liberal asks us to return to central planning? He points to the relatively minor bad-actors (e.g. slavery, pollution, etc.) as examples of why freedom can't be allowed, yet he forgets pollution and slavery existed (and still exists) under central planning? Right-wing America cleaned up its pollution and eliminated slavery on its own, so these minor quibbles are no justification to return to the dictatorships of socialism or communism. The filthiest countries in the world are run by central planners, because without private ownership, nobody cares about taking care of property.

Yes, there is a fundamental battle for the future between young "progressive liberals" and the "right-wing." And the battle must be fought, not papered-over as the article suggests. Either we are going to be free (as the right-wing advocates) or we are going to have dictators, as the progressives want? There is almost no middle ground. Half a dictator makes everyone mad. And that's exactly what we have today; half a dictator.

This post is an excellent example of exactly what the author of the article warned against. You are the problem that he spoke of.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Except that many extreme right wingers don't seem to have any humanity except for their own very narrow interests. Respect is earned, not given, most wingers have not and likely will not earn respect from those that have a world view larger than the mirror.

This post, too is exactly what the author discussed. You are the problem of which he speaks.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Two lines from the article that I found especially compelling:

the world is being destroyed by one side believing the other side is destroying the world. The world is being hurt and damaged by one group of people believing they're truly better people than the others who think differently.

As an exercise, for as long as I stay interested, I will point out each post that violates the above lines.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

A very good OP article and I would love the believe the sentiment and actions could come true. Alas, I believe pandora's box has been opened and the hate, disgust and dehumanization of one side and the other may be too wide of a gap to bridge at this point. Perhaps a figure yet to be determined has the courage and ability to bridge that gap and gain the trust of both sides, but to me that is a pipe dream. The reality of many is that one side is hell bent on destruction of the world through their world views and policies.



At one time early in the 2008 campaign I thought this figure just might be Obama. Within 6 months I knew I was very wrong. The derision and ability to demonize and ideologue that has come from Obama has further polarized the electorate to near Hatfield and McCoy levels. I don't see that changing any time soon and if anything, it will get worse.

If you think that it was just Obama who has polarized things, then you are part of the problem. The Dems AND the Republicans have equal responsibility in polarizing.

 

[Summerwind]

This post, too is exactly what the author discussed. You are the problem of which he speaks.

I am as described, I just don't see it as a problem. Sorry. I find allowing people to opine contrary to facts, demonize with lies and innuendo, and drive folks into panic with falsehoods as being not at all respectable. Never will. Sad so many people seem to think PC is better than truth, the truth being they don't deserve respect.

 

[Summerwind]

If you think that it was just Obama who has polarized things, then you are part of the problem. The Dems AND the Republicans have equal responsibility in polarizing.

Trying to equate the polarization of the Republicans and the Democrats just proves you're so PC, you can't see reality.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I am as described, I just don't see it as a problem. Sorry. I find allowing people to opine contrary to facts, demonize with lies and innuendo, and drive folks into panic with falsehoods as being not at all respectable. Never will. Sad so many people seem to think PC is better than truth, the truth being they don't deserve respect.

That's not what you said. You GENERALIZED all right wingers that way. The extremists? I agree with you. All? Nope, that kind of perception makes you exactly the problem that the author of the article describes.

 

[Dibbler]

Progressive's and liberal's (mostly young people) think they have discovered a great new way of doing things that nobody's ever thought of before. They also think that digging dirt and converting it to cars and kitchen appliances is destroying the planet. Nothing could be further from the truth. These liberals totally miss truth.

Before America, the world ran entirely by central planning. Progressives think that if only we had a smart enough and benevolent enough dictator, then he could get things accomplished "for the people." And this is exactly the way hundreds of countries ran for thousands of years. One dictator after another. Until America came along. America said, enough. Enough with the dictators and enough with central planning.

America grew and prospered. When America started, over 95% of the country and the world were farmers, scratching out a meager existence. Poverty, pestilence and squalor were the norm. But, America changed all that. By adopting "right-wing" principles of freedom, America achieved the highest standard of living the world had ever seen. Taken for granted by today's progressives, this American revolution raised billions of people out of poverty.

Now the progressive liberal asks us to return to central planning? He points to the relatively minor bad-actors (e.g. slavery, pollution, etc.) as examples of why freedom can't be allowed, yet he forgets pollution and slavery existed (and still exists) under central planning? Right-wing America cleaned up its pollution and eliminated slavery on its own, so these minor quibbles are no justification to return to the dictatorships of socialism or communism. The filthiest countries in the world are run by central planners, because without private ownership, nobody cares about taking care of property.

Yes, there is a fundamental battle for the future between young "progressive liberals" and the "right-wing." And the battle must be fought, not papered-over as the article suggests. Either we are going to be free (as the right-wing advocates) or we are going to have dictators, as the progressives want? There is almost no middle ground. Half a dictator makes everyone mad. And that's exactly what we have today; half a dictator.

There is NO freedom at $7.25 an hour.

 

[Summerwind]

That's not what you said. You GENERALIZED all right wingers that way. The extremists? I agree with you. All? Nope, that kind of perception makes you exactly the problem that the author of the article describes.

A right winger is an extremist. Not all Republicans are right wingers. Does that help you at all? And if you'll go back and look, I even included the word "extreme" so as to assure that careless folks didn't think I said what you're claiming.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Trying to equate the polarization of the Republicans and the Democrats just proves you're so PC, you can't see reality.

Not seeing the equal polarization proves that you are a partisan and can't see reality.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

A right winger is an extremist. Not all Republicans are right wingers. Does that help you at all?

A right winger isn't extremist. Some right wingers are. Does that help YOU at all?

 

[Dibbler]

Whether it is a dictator or monarch or pope or totalitarian committee or elected government, if that government calls the shots or has the power to call the shots as to how society will be organized and how people will be required to live their lives, it is central planning. And Respecttheelect had it absolutely right that the whole world operated under a concept of central planning before the Founders of the USA had a different vision and gave us a country in which the government secured our rights and then left us alone to live our lives, govern ourselves, and form whatever sorts of societies we wanted to have. And it indeed produced the most productive, innovative, creative, prosperous, generous, and free nation the world has ever seen.

And nevertheless the progressives/centrists/statists/leftists/liberals among us are all gung go to return us to central planning as fast as they can make it happen.

Enforcing the Glass-Steagal Act would be a good start.

 

[Summerwind]

Not seeing the equal polarization proves that you are a partisan and can't see reality.

Well when one side deals in facts, and the other deals in hyped up drama with little or no connection to reality, I'll stay polarized against the latter. However I don't see too many Democrats that are as willing to do that as I am.

 

[Summerwind]

A right winger isn't extremist. Some right wingers are. Does that help YOU at all?

I specifically detail "extreme right wingers" in the original post you're whining about. Sorry, you're looking to cause trouble based on your inability to read fully.

 

[_Sal]

Not to my value system. I have no desire to find enjoyment with self-centered rich, old, white men who demand others recognize their imagined superiority or those sheeple that worship their every lie and deception.

I will have no regrets regarding this concept.

I am happy for you that you have found a value/belief system which for you is so correct that you find no need to compromise.

I have never found such a system. Rather, the individual comes before any system or even accepted belief.

I also do not believe myself to be a sheeple, however perhaps I am or if truth be told, perhaps others find me so.

Regardless of that, I have found myself tending more to value flexibility in the moment, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. I am intuitive by nature...even if someone has spit on me and professes to hate me and all of my values, if I find them offering their hand and find them to be real in the moment, I am working on taking their hand.

I am as described, I just don't see it as a problem. Sorry. I find allowing people to opine contrary to facts, demonize with lies and innuendo, and drive folks into panic with falsehoods as being not at all respectable. Never will. Sad so many people seem to think PC is better than truth, the truth being they don't deserve respect.

I am not so certain that being human in the moment requires any type of respect in the other person's belief system but rather only respect for them as a human being.

We are all different though and here to learn our individual lessons so my lesson and need and struggle may vary from yours.