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CurrentAffairs said:Yeah, screw that region of the world. Let's just take our toys and go home. :roll:
Perhaps. My mother always told me to clean up my own messes.Iriemon said:I think we already have screwed that region of the world.
Yes, do this. Get your troops out of Iraq immediately and start to clean up your own messes by finding out about the crimes Americans committed there and bring them all to justice, your politicians, your soldiers, your contractors and your war profiteers.CurrentAffairs said:Perhaps. My mother always told me to clean up my own messes.
Maybe I should have used this quote from my mother instead: Always finish what you started. Don't be a quiter.Volker said:Yes, do this. Get your troops out of Iraq immediately and start to clean up your own messes by finding out about the crimes Americans committed there and bring them all to justice, your politicians, your soldiers, your contractors and your war profiteers.
Didn't your mom also tell you to come home on time :mrgreen:CurrentAffairs said:Maybe I should have used this quote from my mother instead: Always finish what you started. Don't be a quiter.
Billo_Really said:With the biggest probably being their just mentally lazy and it was convenient to adopt someone else's point of view without doing the analytical work ourselves.
Billo_Really said:We have to leave Iraq. That is our only choice. We shouldn't be there in the first place.
We attacked illegally.
And have contributed to the destruction of that country
with possible over 600,000 people losing their lives.
The longer we stay, the more terrorism will flourish,
the more we will lose our humanity, the more danger (in terms of the United States security) the world will be, and the less we will be as a nation that we thought we once were.
We have to bring home all US troops from all country's in the world and stop this madness of US aggression.
This is causing terrorism.
We have a leader of this country that in some respects is just like Hitler, just like Saddam Hussein, just like Stalin, with the only difference being a better military than the other three.
But what is much worse than Bush, are the citizens that put him in office. The stupid, ignorant, wanna-be American citizens that threw their vote into the garbage because they believe in the dumbs.hit wisdom of O'Reilly, or Hannity, or Limbaugh.
Why? Many reasons. With the biggest probably being their just mentally lazy and it was convenient to adopt someone else's point of view without doing the analytical work ourselves.
At no time, in the history of this planet, has a conventional army won a guerilla war. And it's not going to happen now.
There was nothing illegal about it. Even your own party gave up on this rhetoric crap years ago.Billo_Really said:We attacked illegally.
arussian said:The longer you stay there, the higher is the resistance (within US first of all).
Official death rate of 3 a day is very decent, these figures are good but take into consideration that the number of killed in this war is only about7% to those of wounded, so it is about 3 dozens of maimed physically and mentally daily. Some of them of course also die in planes, in Germany, in US, US citizens out of army not counted, non-US citizens within the army as well, etc.
People begin asking sooner or later what are they dying and being maimed for?
For the sake of US being hated all over the world? Or may be for the sake of additional $2 trillions of economical burden? (as Nobel price winner Stiglitz has counted the total cost of Iraq war).
You risk finally to run from Iraq the way you did it from Saigon. Jumping into the leaving choppers and kicking out hanging local traitors.
arussian said:There was local government in Vietnam but when US left it was overthtrown immediately.
In Afghanistan after USSR left Nadjhibullah's regime existed about one or two years, but was overthrown by Talliban.
I wouldn't bet a dollar for Shia's Iraqi government after US will go.
Such regimes are always "collaborators" in the eyes of local people they can not be popular.
...backed by the U.S.S.R., China, North Korea etc
was financed and supported heavily by the U.S., Saudi Arabia, Pakistan etc.
.It's not a Shia government it is a coalition government much like Lebanon where certain hierarchy positions must be controlled by certain ethnic sects IE Christian, Sunni, and Shia where as in Iraq the Constitution is constructed in such a way that the President will always be Kurdish, the Prime Minister will always be Shia, and the Assembly speaker is always going to be Sunni
arussian said:You think that Iraqi Resistance is not backed and supported by different forces of the region?
Oh, this model is promising... especially taking into consideration "sectarian violence", Sunni reluctantness to cooperate,
and the fact that US Greater Middle East plan (in various editions) doesn't imply integer Iraq, as I've mentioned in a parallel thread. http://www.debatepolitics.com/430018-post55.html
As for the possible future oil-reach Shia state it clearly will be Iran's and not US ally.
What the hell does that mean? "Clean up my own messes". What do you mean by that? What mess are you going to clean up? Specifically! Don't give me more bullshit, hollow buzzword phrases that mean absolutely JACK S.HIT! I am sick of hearing this garbage!Originally posted by CurrentAffairs:
Perhaps. My mother always told me to clean up my own messes.
Ya know, for a f.uckin' Nazi, that's a pretty right-on statement that I agree with absolutely 100%. I don't agree with the rest of your ideology, but I would definately love to goose-step in this direction. Unfortunately, I think we forgot what being held accountable for our actions really means.Originally posted by Volker:
Yes, do this. Get your troops out of Iraq immediately and start to clean up your own messes by finding out about the crimes Americans committed there and bring them all to justice, your politicians, your soldiers, your contractors and your war profiteers.
Why do you feel the need to "finish" something you never should have started in the first place? I'm sure your mother would not want you to quit killing 2900 more GI's and 600,000 more Iraqi civilians? Oh, let's not quit that!Originally posted by CurrentAffairs:
Maybe I should have used this quote from my mother instead: Always finish what you started. Don't be a quiter.
No slip there, that was deliberate. I put myself in the same boat as everyone I'm bitching about. I'm not above the problem. I too, am part of the problem.Originally posted by VTA:
Hey was that a Freudian slip Billo?
Israel's violated 33 UN resolutions! We didn't attack them!Originally posted by TOT:
No we didn't Saddam violated every single U.N. resolution levied against in complete and total violation of the cease fire agreement.
We attacked in violation of Article 51 of the UN Charter. Something our Congress ratified. Which makes it part of our own Constitution. It only gives two reasons a country can launch a military attack on another sovereign nation.Originally posted by CurrentAffairs:
There was nothing illegal about it. Even your own party gave up on this rhetoric crap years ago.
Billo_Really said:Israel's violated 33 UN resolutions! We didn't attack them!
So go f.uck yourself, a.sshole!
Billo_Really said:We attacked in violation of Article 51 of the UN Charter. Something our Congress ratified. Which makes it part of our own Constitution. It only gives two reasons a country can launch a military attack on another sovereign nation.
We had neither!
- If we are attacked first with a significant force
- If we receive UNSC authorization
DO THE MATH!
Article 51
Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.
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