• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Wagner's rebellion could be the end game of this war.

Prigozhin's rebellion could be the end game of this war.

  • Total voters
    7
Litwin

Litwin

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 2, 2017
Messages
33,607
Reaction score
5,193
Location
GDL/Sweden
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
️SS Utkin & PRIGOZHIN are “COMMITTING MUTINY” WROTE ️Girkin ...

BACKGOUND :



❗️Prigozhin stated that PMC (gru) Wagner would not be subordinate to the 🇷🇺 Ministry of Defense, saying,

“Those orders and decrees that Shoigu makes, they apply to employees of the 🇷🇺 Ministry of Defense and military personnel.

PMC Wagner will not sign any contracts with Shoigu. PMC Wagner is organically built into the overall system, PMC Wagner coordinates its actions with the generals on the right, left, with unit commanders. What can happen after this order - we will not be given weapons and ammunition - we will figure it out, as they say, when the thunder strikes, they will come running and bring everything.”

- Prigozhin of PMC Wagner

❗️Girkin (Strelkov), a key 🇷🇺 figure in the 2014 invasion, called Prigozhin's refusal to submit to Shoigu as ‘military mutiny.’

❗️Prigozhin’s chicken video is likely, based on his early statements, referring to the 🇷🇺 military leadership as being cowards and ‘roosters’ (it is 🇷🇺 prison slang for submissive homosexual).

388.jpg
 

GRU Wagner Boss Prigozhin says that Moscow’s objectives of "denazifying" and "demilitarising" Ukraine have failed , we’ve militarised Ukraine!"​



 
GRU (SS) Utkin vs. Shaigu ( Kadyrov gang behind ) who´d win ?



Fxjb_boWYAEhSyi
 
Hmmmm...I remember what happened to the SA.
 
Wagner are probably Putins most effective ground forces. If they're not on board I don't expect Russia to make any serious gains or even effectively hold territory.

Defective equipment and apathetic conscripts won't hold up well against motivated Ukranians with sophisticated western materiel.
 
Is it a fair assessment that the Russian war effort has been hamstrung by equipment failures and inventories not being there because of graft and corruption?
 
Rexedgar said:
Is it a fair assessment that the Russian war effort has been hamstrung by equipment failures and inventories not being there because of graft and corruption?
Click to expand...
That's a fair point. I suspect that, were it not for the many billions of ₽ siphoned from the Russian government by oligarchs, they would have had much more and better equipment, and in much better condition, to fight a conventional war against Ukraine.
 
I am given to wonder if the Putin regime isn’t setting Prighozin up as the scapegoat for why the war was such a colossal failure. They put him in an intolerable position that they know he will refuse, then they pin everything on him. So even if the war is lost, the narrative the Putin regime will try to spin is that it was not due to Putin’s mismanagement and foolish decision to launch the war, but rather due to Prighozin’s betrayal.
 
Felis Leo said:
I am given to wonder if the Putin regime isn’t setting Prighozin up as the scapegoat for why the war was such a colossal failure. They put him in an intolerable position that they know he will refuse, then they pin everything on him. So even if the war is lost, the narrative the Putin regime will try to spin is that it was not due to Putin’s mismanagement and foolish decision to launch the war, but rather due to Prighozin’s betrayal.
Click to expand...
Wasn’t the Wagner Group’s performance in the last campaign that was somewhat successful….Bakhmut (sp?)
 
Rexedgar said:
Wasn’t the Wagner Group’s performance in the last campaign that was somewhat successful….Bakhmut (sp?)
Click to expand...

Perhaps. But if I were to make some grand assumptions, destroying a major dam and ruining land you intend to add to your empire is not the act of a government that feels 100% confident in the prospect of ultimate victory.
 
Felis Leo said:
Perhaps. But destroying a dam and ruining land you intend to add to your empire is not the act of a government that feels confident in the prospect of ultimate victory.
Click to expand...
I agree, just the infighting doesn’t make any sense. The Russian don’t need to open another front at this point. Are we not hearing about the Russian people protesting the government any longer or have they been squelched?
 
Felis Leo said:
Perhaps. But if I were to make some grand assumptions, destroying a major dam and ruining land you intend to add to your empire is not the act of a government that feels 100% confident in the prospect of ultimate victory.
Click to expand...
Kind of like Saddam setting Kuwait's oil wells alight on the way out.
 
Allan said:
Kind of like Saddam setting Kuwait's oil wells alight on the way out.
Click to expand...
You think Putin has thrown in the towel?
 
Felis Leo said:
I am given to wonder if the Putin regime isn’t setting Prighozin up as the scapegoat for why the war was such a colossal failure. They put him in an intolerable position that they know he will refuse, then they pin everything on him. So even if the war is lost, the narrative the Putin regime will try to spin is that it was not due to Putin’s mismanagement and foolish decision to launch the war, but rather due to Prighozin’s betrayal.
Click to expand...

The fear I have is that the open dissent is going to force Putin to consider radical options. He's moving his tac-nukes to Belarus. I think we and NATO need to make it clear what happens if even so much as a tac-nuke lands on Ukraine soil.
 
multivita-man said:
The fear I have is that the open dissent is going to force Putin to consider radical options. He's moving his tac-nukes to Belarus. I think we and NATO need to make it clear what happens if even so much as a tac-nuke lands on Ukraine soil.
Click to expand...
That's been communicated to Putin. A single nuke goes off and NATO forces move in.
 
Allan said:
That's been communicated to Putin. A single nuke goes off and NATO forces move in.
Click to expand...
If Putin is in DILLIGAF mode, where does that put the world?
 
Rexedgar said:
If Putin is in DILLIGAF mode, where does that put the world?
Click to expand...

I do not think he is in DILLIGAF mode. I think Putin wants to preserve his existence (read: his hold on power) for as long as possible. In order to do that, and if the war results in defeat, the regime needs a scapegoat. And he has two to choose from: his toady ministry of defense Shoigu or his mercenary army commander Prighozin. Shoigu is a total incompetent but is unfailingly and slavishly loyal to Putin. Prighozin is somewhat less incompetent but mouths off a bit much and is seen as too ambitious. Who to choose? I think the answer is obvious.
 
Last edited:
Just an aside for you Litwin, many of us here are sympathetic and in agreement with you.

Your threads are tedious and borderline insane. They are laced with obviously propagandized selectively curated supporting videos and images.

My thoughts when I look at any of your threads is that you are doing more harm than good. Take that as you may, it's just my outside constructive opinion.
 
marduc said:
Just an aside for you Litwin, many of us here are sympathetic and in agreement with you.

Your threads are tedious and borderline insane. They are laced with obviously propagandized selectively curated supporting videos and images.

My thoughts when I look at any of your threads is that you are doing more harm than good. Take that as you may, it's just my outside constructive opinion.
Click to expand...

Litwin was our resident stopped clock, Marduc. He had been railing and barking at the moon over Russian imperialism and perfidiousness for years since I joined. And then in February 2022 he was vindicated.
 
marduc said:
Just an aside for you Litwin, many of us here are sympathetic and in agreement with you.

Your threads are tedious and borderline insane. They are laced with obviously propagandized selectively curated supporting videos and images.

My thoughts when I look at any of your threads is that you are doing more harm than good. Take that as you may, it's just my outside constructive opinion.
Click to expand...
He's right Litwin. This OP has interesting discussion potential but the presentation discourages participants.
 
Felis Leo said:
Litwin was our resident stopped clock, Marduc. He had been railing and barking at the moon over Russian imperialism and perfidiousness for years since I joined. And then in February 2022 he was vindicated.
Click to expand...
I know. I have not posted much over the course of several years, but I have been in observer mode for quite some time.
 
uptower said:
Wagner are probably Putins most effective ground forces. If they're not on board I don't expect Russia to make any serious gains or even effectively hold territory.

Defective equipment and apathetic conscripts won't hold up well against motivated Ukranians with sophisticated western materiel.
Click to expand...
a GOOD POINT, what is SS Utkin wants ? what is GRU Wagner´s plan ?



FyVrrizacAEHf44
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom