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[W: #18] Jesus is GOD

VySky

VySky

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For scripture is clear. Jesus is GOD.

Even the Jews understood what Jesus was saying.

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John 10:32-33 ESV

32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”

33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
 
I don't have a problem with the philosophy of Jesus Christ. It's more or less consistent and difficult to criticize other than it's nearly impossible for humans to follow. That's not to say we shouldn't try. The problem isn't Christ... it's Christians.
 
VySky said:
For scripture is clear. Jesus is GOD.

Even the Jews understood what Jesus was saying.

===================

John 10:32-33 ESV

32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”

33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
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So Jesus is also the father of Jesus? As well as being "god"?

I'm soooo confused!!!
 
The thing with the trinity is that almost every religion of the time was pantheistic. Now instead of the Jewish monotheism that was tough to swallow, you can begin with the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. From there we move to praying to the Virgin Mary, the came saints for every occupation, and soon... it's pantheistic again.
 
VySky said:
How can this ⬇️ be misunderstood? It meant the same thing ~2000 years ago that it means today
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And therefore to be stoned for blasphemy. Does not make him god.

, “I have shown you many good works from the Father;
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Replace the father with me, and you might have a leg to stand on.
As it stands, all you've done is show Jesus is not god.
 
Loulit01 said:
The thing with the trinity is that almost every religion of the time was pantheistic. Now instead of the Jewish monotheism that was tough to swallow, you can begin with the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. From there we move to praying to the Virgin Mary, the came saints for every occupation, and soon... it's pantheistic again.
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I guess I'm a "pantheist", I look at the Universe as sacred. I still wouldn't call it "god" though, I do not believe.
 
CaughtInThe said:
And yet so many Christians just totally ignore Jesus's sermon on the mount. And they ignore it on purpose because it allows them to hate.
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The part where Jesus tells us to pay taxes to Ceasar so that he can re-distribute it to the poor?
 
“Man, once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without a rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility, which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck.”
-Thomas Jefferson

“Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.”
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Adrian Van der Kemp, 30 July, 1816

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

“Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory..., more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, it renders the heart torpid or produces only atheists or fanatics. As an engine of power, it serves the purpose of despotism, and as a means of wealth, the avarice of priests, but so far as respects the good of man in general it leads to nothing here or hereafter.”
― Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason
 
VySky said:
Jesus saying he was/is God is why they went to stone him. The text is clear about this.
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And a king, the Romans weren't having it.

Jesus is just a man, no such thing as gods created in mans head.

Its opium for the weak and gullible.
 
I am assuming OP is rhetorical - he just needs periodic reminders to himself it's not Trump.
 
VySky said:
For scripture is clear. Jesus is GOD.

Even the Jews understood what Jesus was saying.

===================

John 10:32-33 ESV

32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”

33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
Click to expand...

I disagree, Jesus being a man did not make Himself out to be God, but always claimed His Father is the only true God. These religious leaders did not believe Jesus is the Christ. What makes you think their accusation is correct and true? They wanted him dead and this is the accusation for accomplishment.

Keep reading in John 10, Jesus goes on to rebuke their accusation. They were liars.
 
Moderator's Warning:
The Theology subforum is moderated under a specific set of rules. Read them.
 
VySky said:
because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
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And who said that? Not Jesus but the Pharisees, they were making a false accusation......Jesus made it clear of who he was...in the proceeding verses of John 10...

34 Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’?+

35 If he called ‘gods’+ those against* whom the word of God came—and yet the scripture cannot be nullified—

36 do you say to me* whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?"
 
Loulit01 said:
The thing with the trinity is that almost every religion of the time was pantheistic. Now instead of the Jewish monotheism that was tough to swallow, you can begin with the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. From there we move to praying to the Virgin Mary, the came saints for every occupation, and soon... it's pantheistic again.
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Good point but who did Jesus instruct us to pray to?

“You must pray, then, this way:+ “‘Our Father in the heavens," Matthew 6:9
 
Daisy said:
And who said that? Not Jesus but the Pharisees, they were making a false accusation......Jesus made it clear of who he was...in the proceeding verses of John 10...

34 Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’?+

35 If he called ‘gods’+ those against* whom the word of God came—and yet the scripture cannot be nullified—

36 do you say to me* whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?"
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It wasn’t an accusation but an acknowledgment in what Jesus was saying. That he was and is God.
 
VySky said:
It wasn’t an accusation but an acknowledgment in what Jesus was saying. That he was and is God.
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Show me where he says he is God...
 
Daisy said:
Show me where he says he is God...
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Yes, Jesus made it clear he was God, and God's son.

Not only did they try and stone him for the above they wanted to stone him on another occasion for saying "before Abraham was born, I AM".

They understood the language and knew what Jesus was testifying.

And to further describe.

John 20:28
28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

If Jesus was not God he would have corrected Timothy but he didn't. Jesus on multiple occasions corrected somone when they mispoke.

Paul proclaims in the scriptures of Titus who he was waiting for

Titus 2:13
13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ
 
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VySky said:
John 20:28
28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

If Jesus was not God he would have corrected Timothy but he didn't. Jesus on multiple occasions corrected somone when they mispoke.
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Thomas ain't Jesus...but...

Some scholars have viewed this expression as an exclamation of astonishment spoken to Jesus but actually directed to God, his Father. However, others claim the original Greek requires that the words be viewed as being directed to Jesus. Even if this is so, the expression “My Lord and my God” would still have to harmonize with the rest of the inspired Scriptures. Since the record shows that Jesus had previously sent his disciples the message, “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God,” there is no reason for believing that Thomas thought Jesus was the Almighty God. (Joh 20:17) John himself, after recounting Thomas’ encounter with the resurrected Jesus, says of this and similar accounts: “But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.”—Joh 20:30, 31.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002451

VySky said:
Paul proclaims in the scriptures ofTitus who he was waiting for

Titus 2:13
13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ
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Titus 2:13:

RS reads: “Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.” (Similar wording is found in NE, TEV, JB.) However, NW reads: “while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of the Savior of us, Christ Jesus.” (NAB has a similar rendering.)

Which translation agrees with Titus 1:4, which refers to “God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior”? Although the Scriptures also refer to God as being a Savior, this text clearly differentiates between him and Christ Jesus, the one through whom God provides salvation.

Some argue that Titus 2:13 indicates that Christ is both God and Savior. Interestingly, RS, NE, TEV, JB render Titus 2:13 in a way that might be construed as allowing for that view, but they do not follow the same rule in their translation of 2 Thessalonians 1:12. Henry Alford, in The Greek Testament, states: “I would submit that [a rendering that clearly differentiates God and Christ, at Titus 2:13] satisfies all the grammatical requirements of the sentence: that it is both structurally and contextually more probable, and more agreeable to the Apostle’s way of writing.”—(Boston, 1877), Vol. III, p. 421.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989276
 
Daisy said:
Thomas ain't Jesus...but...

Some scholars have viewed this expression as an exclamation of astonishment spoken to Jesus but actually directed to God, his Father. However, others claim the original Greek requires that the words be viewed as being directed to Jesus. Even if this is so, the expression “My Lord and my God” would still have to harmonize with the rest of the inspired Scriptures. Since the record shows that Jesus had previously sent his disciples the message, “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God,” there is no reason for believing that Thomas thought Jesus was the Almighty God. (Joh 20:17) John himself, after recounting Thomas’ encounter with the resurrected Jesus, says of this and similar accounts: “But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.”—Joh 20:30, 31.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002451


Titus 2:13:

RS reads: “Awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.” (Similar wording is found in NE, TEV, JB.) However, NW reads: “while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of the Savior of us, Christ Jesus.” (NAB has a similar rendering.)

Which translation agrees with Titus 1:4, which refers to “God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior”? Although the Scriptures also refer to God as being a Savior, this text clearly differentiates between him and Christ Jesus, the one through whom God provides salvation.

Some argue that Titus 2:13 indicates that Christ is both God and Savior. Interestingly, RS, NE, TEV, JB render Titus 2:13 in a way that might be construed as allowing for that view, but they do not follow the same rule in their translation of 2 Thessalonians 1:12. Henry Alford, in The Greek Testament, states: “I would submit that [a rendering that clearly differentiates God and Christ, at Titus 2:13] satisfies all the grammatical requirements of the sentence: that it is both structurally and contextually more probable, and more agreeable to the Apostle’s way of writing.”—(Boston, 1877), Vol. III, p. 421.
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989276
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I'll consider the validity of the interpretations based on the versions of Bibles you referenced. God bless.
 
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