• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

[W:105] GOD HIMSELF will be with them

redbeer said:
This verse has many renderings and translations. Under this one, it makes sense only if one has a God of flesh. Paul was addressing the Jews and having a God of flesh is totally foreign to their faith for thousands of years. The more correct rendering taking the context and the context of Jewish religion, this is the more correct translation:


5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. KJV

5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen. NASV

5 whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. ASV

5 the Patriarchs are theirs; and from them, as far as his physical descent is concerned, came the Messiah, who is over all. Praised be ADONAI for ever! Amen. CJB

5 whose [are] the fathers; and of whom, as according to flesh, [is] the Christ, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. DBY
Click to expand...
"God overall" points to Christ divine authority and sovereignty over all things. Including the universe.
 
I'd like to re-post this here:


Connect the dots.




Isaiah 48:2
I am the Lord, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to idols.


Isaiah 48:11
For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it, for how should my name be profaned? My glory I will not give to another.




GOD gave that non-conditional statement clearly, that He doesn't give or share His glory with anyone else.
He never mentioned any caveat by saying..............."except to my Son."


GOD gave His glory and praise to Jesus Christ because Jesus (GOD's WORD) - who came as His Son - is GOD's physical manifestation here on earth.
Praise and glorification of Jesus, is praise and glorification of GOD.




Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds.



John 1:14
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.



John 11:40
Jesus *said to her, “Did I not say to you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?”


John 14:8-9
Philip *said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip?
He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?


2 Cor 4:4-6
in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus’ sake.
For God, who said, “Light shall shine out of darkness,” is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.



John 12:23
And Jesus *answered them, saying, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified.
 
Last edited:
It's interesting to know that MAN is a tripartite being.
Would that have anything to do about having been created in the image of GOD, I wonder?



1 Thessalonians 5:23
“Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”


This verse clearly states that man has three separate, distinct parts; the distinction maybe slight but they exist nevertheless.


 
The Trinity Unmasked: what does the Bible really say?The Trinity is NOT biblical: what does the Bible reveal? The doctrine of the Trinity is a fundamental teaching for many Christian religions, but what does the Bible really say about it? We examine the Scriptures to find out whether the idea of a God in three persons (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) has a biblical foundation or whether it is a later addition.

 
Daisy said:
The Trinity Unmasked: what does the Bible really say?The Trinity is NOT biblical: what does the Bible reveal? The doctrine of the Trinity is a fundamental teaching for many Christian religions, but what does the Bible really say about it? We examine the Scriptures to find out whether the idea of a God in three persons (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) has a biblical foundation or whether it is a later addition.

Click to expand...



You're out of ammo.



The only thing unmasked by this thread and the other two threads (Jesus is GOD, and TRINITY): The FATHER, HIS WORD, and HIS SPIRIT are undeniably One.
The conclusion comes straoght from the Bible, in so many verses that complement and support each other.


Which is only logical, too............even if we simply discuss this by logic.



Kinda like the triune human being,


1 Thessalonians 5:23
“Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”



like you, as an example:
Based from the Bible - you are composed of your body, your soul and your spirit. They're all one person, named Daisy.
God is composed of GOD (Father), His Word and His Spirit.

However - Daisy doesn't have the power to send her spirit or her soul elsewhere.
GOD does.


God can send His WORD and His Spirit wherever He wants.


Isaiah 55
11 So will My word be which goes out of My mouth;
It will not return to Me empty,
Without accomplishing what I desire,
And without succeeding in the purpose for which I sent it.



Just because He sends them wherever, and are tasked to do things for GOD - doesn't make them different and separate from GOD.
They're GOD. They're HIM!
 
Last edited:
Daisy said:
The Trinity Unmasked: what does the Bible really say?The Trinity is NOT biblical: what does the Bible reveal? The doctrine of the Trinity is a fundamental teaching for many Christian religions, but what does the Bible really say about it? We examine the Scriptures to find out whether the idea of a God in three persons (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) has a biblical foundation or whether it is a later addition.
Click to expand...


The "unbelieving," could very well refer to those who stubbornly refuse to believe JESUS is GOD Himself.



2 Cor 4
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they will not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.



Let's read this again:


....the light of the gospel....

of the glory of Christ,

who is the image of God.


The Gospel's core message would have to be that, JESUS is GOD HIMSELF..........

.................otherwise, we are all guilty of worshipping another god in Jesus Christ.



That would mean, the gospel that we're spreading, would not have come from GOD.

For why would GOD throw us an object (Jesus Christ) who would lead us into sin?
That goes against the reason for CHRIST - our salvation - wouldn't it?


No matter how you slice and dice it - it all boils down to one fact: JESUS IS GOD HIMSELF.



Remember the very first Commandment..................which Jesus said, is the most important Commandment of all.
Why then, would we turn Jesus into a god and break this first Command?
That's why to do so, would mean our downfall. We'll be perishing.


Exodus 20
And God spoke all these words:


2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3“You shall have no other gods before me.
 
Last edited:
tosca1 said:
The "unbelieving," could very well refer to those who stubbornly refuse to believe JESUS is GOD Himself.



2 Cor 4
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,
4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they will not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.



Let's read this again:


....the light of the gospel....

of the glory of Christ,

who is the image of God.


The Gospel's core message would have to be that, JESUS is GOD HIMSELF..........

.................otherwise, we are all guilty of worshipping another god in Jesus Christ.



That would mean, the gospel that we're spreading, would not have come from GOD.

For why would GOD throw us an object (Jesus Christ) who would lead us into sin?
That goes against the reason for CHRIST - our salvation - wouldn't it?


No matter how you slice and dice it - it all boils down to one fact: JESUS IS GOD HIMSELF.



Remember the very first Commandment..................which Jesus said, is the most important Commandment of all.
Why then, would we turn Jesus into a god and break this first Command?
That's why to do so, would mean our downfall. We'll be perishing.


Exodus 20
And God spoke all these words:


2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

3“You shall have no other gods before me.
Click to expand...

A son or daughter is oftentimes called the spitting image of their parents. Are these children their own father or mother?.....of course not. Neither is Jesus, trinitarians destroy the very language to suit false doctrine.

Jesus is the Christ, the Mediator between God and man, our High Priest and according to the strictest sense of the Israelites, there remains only One True God. Jesus came to declare "who" this is, namely His Father.

Idolatry comes turning the Christ OF God INTO God, forming a Godman after their own likeness.


(Rom 1:23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.


Listen to Jesus not trinitarians.


(Joh 17:3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
 
While responding in another thread - I have just come upon some lines that shows JESUS and The HOLY SPIRIT are One and The Same.



John 14
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—
17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.



BUT you know him for he lives with you.
Jesus became flesh and lived with them.

and will be in you.
He's referring to Himself (Jesus). The next lines reaffirm that.

18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
 
This touches another connect-the-dot:



John 14
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—



Matthew 28:20
Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
 
tosca1 said:
I love you @redbeer .
Click to expand...

(2Co 13:5) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

(Col 1:26) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
(Col 1:27) To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom