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Voter Fraud

What is more of a greater concern?

  • The few who try to vote twice

    Votes: 1 2.9%

  • The people with no photo ID who attempt to vote

    Votes: 7 20.0%

  • Dead people on the voter registry

    Votes: 1 2.9%

  • The potential hacking of voter machines and registries

    Votes: 26 74.3%
  • Total voters
    35
  • Poll closed .

Middleground

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So many times over the last few years I have seen countless threads whining about voter fraud and how so many people commit it, and we need ID cards to keep it under control --- yada, yada, yada -- yet facts tell us that voter fraud is about as rare as it gets:

Between 2000 and 2010, there were:
649 million votes cast in general elections
47,000 UFO sightings
441 Americans killed by lightning
13 credible cases of in-person voter impersonation

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/voter-id-laws-charts-maps/

Many times I have brought up the idea that the greater threat to fair elections would be the hacking of voting machines and/or voting regestries. Do you not think it's a more viable concern -- especially after today's top secret leak where it seems the Russians were pretty active in trying to disrupt American democracy by their phishing and attempts to hack when it's unsure how successful they were.
 
I'm really not all that concerned about any of the things in the poll. The hacking might be a problem if our voting apparatus wasn't so decentralized.
 

Anyone who applies for a driver's license in California is automatically registered to vote. It is now legal for illegal immigrants to obtain driver's licenses in California. I'm more worried about this fact, than about the Russian boogie man who wrestles bears in his spare time.
 
If our voting system was centralized, I'd be more worried.
 
Middleground said:
Can you elaborate?
Click to expand...

Each state is responsible for running its own elections and those responsibilities are usually delegated down even further. So there is no one network you can hack to affect national elections. You would have to attack from numerous points, which makes detection more likely.

If the federal government ever takes over running elections and implements the use of the same voting machines across the country, then hacking our election will become a more plausible threat.
 
If one single person votes who has no legal right to do so, it's too many.
 
Cephus said:
If one single person votes who has no legal right to do so, it's too many.
Click to expand...

You're not wrong, in an ideal world. However, what is the acceptable number of legal voters disenfranchised by arduous requirements to prevent one illegal voter from casting a ballot? Because every (and I mean EVERY) proposed or passed voter ID bill I've seen would shut thousands of otherwise perfectly legal voters out of the booth.
 
Cephus said:
If one single person votes who has no legal right to do so, it's too many.
Click to expand...

So how much personal income are you willing to send to the Republican party so they can try keep you safe from it?
 
I'll start getting worried about so-called voter fraud when it can be outright proven that even one batch of voter fraud swayed a state- or federal-level election.

In the meantime, I am far more worried about voter suppression techniques. Screen voters if you must, but poor voters must be given alternatives that literally cost them nothing to acquire. Including transportation costs or time off of work. The 24th Amendment is very clear about poll taxes.
 

If this doesn't click with those who think California's most recent presidential election was on the up & up nothing will!

United States presidential election in California, 1968[1]
Party Candidate Votes Percentage Electoral votes 40
Republican Richard Nixon 3,467,664 47.82%
Democratic Hubert Humphrey 3,244,318 44.74%
American Independent George Wallace 487,270 6.72%

Notice California only had 40 electoral votes in 68, it's 55 now!

California now has 40,000,000 in 1968 19,000,000 it's population has double
62% minorities

40% Latino
16% Asain
6% black

1970 demographics
Whites 15 million
Latinos 2.5 million
Asians 1 million
Blacks 2 million

2017 demographics
Whites 15 million
Latinos 16 million
Asians 8 million
Blacks 3 million

Nixon won the 68 election in California handily when there were 15 million whites & 2.5 million latino's

Mrs. Clinton won the 2016 election with over a 4 million plurality, her plurality was more than Nixon's vote total
in 1968, that's incredible. But 2,5 million latino's are now 16 million.
Republican votes 4,483,810 - Democratic votes 8,753,788

It sure is evident that issuing those driver liscences to illegals is sure paying off for
the Democratic machine there. Even the leader of the California legislature De Leon
proudly brags that most in his nuclear family are illegals with fake social security cards.
 

Your entire argument boils down to: Latinos are illegal human beings and California wants them. Such beautiful, conservative, family values on your part. :2grouphug
 
Phys251 said:
Your entire argument boils down to: Latinos are illegal human beings and California wants them. Such beautiful, conservative, family values on your part. :2grouphug
Click to expand...

And your agenda boils down to: We need to make sure that the demographics of the country change so radically, that white people will never be a major factor again in political elections. So what if terrorism, overpopulation, and higher levels of pollution result as side effects. We'll have defeated the GOP!
 
<alt>doxygen said:
So how much personal income are you willing to send to the Republican party so they can try keep you safe from it?
Click to expand...

I don't donate a single red cent to any political party, nor would I.
 
Potential hacking of voting machines and registries is a much more concerning issue since a single person or group of people could have a much larger affect on the outcome of an election that way than they could using other methods.
 
Server hacking / the Kremlin's 24/7 troll army / and Russian disinformation campaigns do far more to undermine the US electoral process than a handful of illegal votes.

Trump whines about millions of illegal voters (without proof) because he didn't capture the popular vote, which is humiliating to Trump and damages his nauseating "largest/bestest" narratives.
 
Phys251 said:
Your entire argument boils down to: Latinos are illegal human beings and California wants them. Such beautiful, conservative, family values on your part. :2grouphug
Click to expand...

7 millian more asians in california, 13 million more latino's in california while white & black
populations are stagnant during the same time. Seems to me a huge chunk of the asian & latino population
came here illegally or in the asian group especially anchor babies. Can't persuade me that
even half of these 3 worlders have become legal, that's just pure nonsense. & guess what
80% of these newbies are Democrats.
 
Oh noes, think of the oppressed white peoplez! :lamo


This post is barely even legible. And that's a good thing.
 

Please! Now let's go to California where Clinton got all the votes she needs for a plurality:
Clinton 8,753,798
Trump 4,483,810

So Clinton won the plurality one state California by 4,270,000 votes
While Trump won the plurality in the other 49 states by over 1,500,000 votes

So if it wasn't for 1 state California Trump would have easily won the popular vote also,
besides for his drubbing of Clinton electorally. The reason Clinton won Cal by over 4 million
votes is because Clinton championed California values, those values are foreign to
the rest of America. If you wanted the rest of the USA to look like California in 30 years
then you supported Clinton. I certainly don't.
 

What does any of that have to do with non-existent voter fraud?
 

I see by the poll results, so far at least, most people agree with you and me--the biggest threat is voting machines that have been hacked or tampered with.
 
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