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Virgin birth of Jesus

Rumpel

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Virgin birth of Jesus

The virgin birth of Jesus is the Christian doctrine that Jesus was conceived and born by his mother Mary through the power of the Holy Spirit and without sexual intercourse.[1] The New Testament references are Matthew 1:18-25 and Luke 1:26-38. It is not expressly mentioned elsewhere in the Christian scriptures,[2] and the consensus of modern scholars is that its historical foundations are very flimsy.[3] The Orthodox churches accept the doctrine as authoritative by reason of its inclusion in the Nicene Creed,[4] and the Catholic Church likewise holds it authoritative for faith through the Apostles' Creed as well as the Nicene. Christians, including Protestants, traditionally regard it as an explanation of the mixture of the human and divine natures of Jesus.[4][1] Nevertheless, there are many contemporary churches in which it is considered orthodox to accept the virgin birth but not heretical to deny it.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus

The topic "virgin birth of Jesus" is often mixed up with the topic "immaculate conception".

As I have opened a thread for the one topic, I think I should also open a thread for the other.

So now I ask: Is anyone here who believes in the virgin birth of Jesus?
 
Virgin birth of Jesus



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus

The topic "virgin birth of Jesus" is often mixed up with the topic "immaculate conception".

As I have opened a thread for the one topic, I think I should also open a thread for the other.

So now I ask: Is anyone here who believes in the virgin birth of Jesus?

Of course. Because virgin birth has been medically possible for decades and has been accomplished a number of times (through artificial conception and a woman who doesn't believe in sex outside of marriage but still wants to have a child).
 
Because virgin birth has been medically possible for decades and has been accomplished a number of times (through artificial conception and a woman who doesn't believe in sex outside of marriage but still wants to have a child).

OK.

And do you think that was also the case with the virgin birth of Jesus?
 
There is an interesting book:


Putting Away Childish Things: The Virgin Birth, the Empty Tomb, and Other Fairy Tales You Dont't Need to Believe to Have a Living Faith

As it happens, Ute Ranke-Heinemann, the author, has died today.

R.I.P.
 
More about Ute Ranke-Heinemann:

Uta Ranke-Heinemann (2 October 1927 – 25 March 2021) was a German theologian, academic, and author. She was the first woman in the world who was habilitated in Catholic theology in 1969. She held a chair of ancient church history and New Testament at the University of Duisburg-Essen. When her license to teach was revoked by the bishop because of her critical position in matters of faith, the university created a nondenominational chair of History of Religion. Her 1988 book Eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven, criticising the Catholic Church's stance on women and sexuality, was published in several editions, and translated in 12 languages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uta_Ranke-Heinemann

Seven ideas:

  1. The Bible is not the word of God but the word of men.
  2. That God exists in three persons is the imagination of men.
  3. Jesus is man and not God.
  4. Mary is the mother of Jesus and not the mother of God.
  5. God created heaven and earth, but hell is a product of human fantasy.
  6. The devil and original sin do not exist.
  7. A bloody redemption at the Cross is a pagan sacrificial slaughtering of a human being, based on a model from the religious Stone Age.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uta_Ranke-Heinemann
 
And why would God need a virgin birth?
 
Virgin birth of Jesus



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_birth_of_Jesus

The topic "virgin birth of Jesus" is often mixed up with the topic "immaculate conception".

As I have opened a thread for the one topic, I think I should also open a thread for the other.

So now I ask: Is anyone here who believes in the virgin birth of Jesus?
I'm still trying to get my arms around the miracle of the Caucasian birth...
 
And why would God need a virgin birth?
What was the purpose of the virgin birth?
God used the virgin birth to provide Jesus with a perfect human body so that Jesus could save mankind from sin and death. (John 3:16; Hebrews 10:5) God transferred Jesus’ life to the womb of Mary. Thereafter, God’s holy spirit evidently shielded the developing embryo from acquiring any imperfection.—Luke 1:35.

Jesus was thus born a perfect human, an equal to what Adam had been before he sinned. The Bible says of Jesus: “He committed no sin.” (1 Peter 2:22) As a perfect man, Jesus could pay the ransom to redeem humans from sin and death.—1 Corinthians 15:21, 22; 1 Timothy 2:5, 6.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/502018141?q=virgin+birth&p=sen
 
What was the purpose of the virgin birth?
God used the virgin birth to provide Jesus with a perfect human body so that Jesus could save mankind from sin and death. (John 3:16; Hebrews 10:5) God transferred Jesus’ life to the womb of Mary. Thereafter, God’s holy spirit evidently shielded the developing embryo from acquiring any imperfection.—Luke 1:35.

Jesus was thus born a perfect human, an equal to what Adam had been before he sinned. The Bible says of Jesus: “He committed no sin.” (1 Peter 2:22) As a perfect man, Jesus could pay the ransom to redeem humans from sin and death.—1 Corinthians 15:21, 22; 1 Timothy 2:5, 6.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/502018141?q=virgin+birth&p=sen

What is a perfect human body and how does it differ from all other human bodies?
 
What is a perfect human body and how does it differ from all other human bodies?
Typical...you ask questions that were already answered in my post...sswwwoooosssshhhhhhhhhhhh...
 
List of virgin births



Virgin birth (more strictly, virginal conception), in the proper sense, is differentiated from other miraculous births in that it is
# birth from a mother who is a virgin; and
# no male seed in any form is involved.

Thus a birth resulting from artificial insemination of a virgin would not be classified as a virgin birth. Similarly, asexual births involving only a father, such as Athena's mythological birth from Zeus's forehead, would similarly not be classified as a virgin birth under this definition.

Many alleged "virgin births" in ancient mythology are probably more accurately described as "miraculous births", since the mother is understood to have been impregnated by a god in either his own form or in an assumed form, as when Zeus impregnated Leda. For example, the births of Buddha, born from married parents, Krishna, the eighth son of Devaki, and Mithras, formed out of solid rock, were miraculous births, but were not the result of virginal conception by a virgin.

Christianity

*Jesus: The founder of the Christian faith was conceived, according to the Gospel of Matthew and the Gospel of Luke, in the virgin Mary without a father through the Holy Spirit (see virgin birth of Jesus). This virginal conception is often confused with Mary's Immaculate Conception from her parents.

Egyptian religions

*Mut-em-ua: The virgin Queen of Egypt, supposedly gave birth to Pharaoh Amenkept III through a god holding a cross to her mouth.
*Ra: The Egyptian sun god, was said to be born of a virgin.

Hinduism

*Krishna
*Karna

Assyrian and Babylonian religions

*Tammuz
*Zoroaster
*Tukulti-Ninurta II
*Ashurbanipal

Greco-Roman religions

*Alexander the Great [Plutarch, Life of Alexander,2-3]
*Antiope: Antiope was seduced by Zeus and bore him twin sons, Zethus and Amphion
*Attis: Attis was born to the virgin Nana who got pregnant after eating a pomegranate.
*Auge
*Dionysus:
*Melanippe
*Mithras: Mithras was born in a cave, to a rock.
*Romulus:Romulus was born to Rea Sivia, a mortal Vestal virgin. [Livy, History 1:3-4]

Chinese tradition

*Genghis Khan
*Lao-Tzu

Buddhism

*Gautama Buddha: Buddha was conceived to Maya without sexual activity.

tories sometimes interpreted as of virgin births

Mythology


Perseus: Perseus was the son of Danaë. She was locked away while a young girl, to prevent her having children, but Zeus came to her in the form of a shower of gold and impregnated her. The shower of gold has from ancient times been interpreted as a reference to bribery of those in charge of keeping her. The Greek Anthology has the following: ZEUS, turned to gold, piercing the brazen chamber of Danae, cut the knot of intact virginity. I think the meaning of the story is this, "Gold, the subduer of all things,gets the better of brazen walls and fetters; gold loosens all reins and opens every lock, gold makes the ladies with scornful eyes bend the knee. It was gold that bent the will of Danae. No need for a lover to pray to Aphrodite, if he brings money to offer." [ [http://www.ancientlibrary.com/greek-anthology/0252.html Book V, 217] ; cf. [http://www.jstor.org/pss/1482582 Cathy Santore: "Danaë: The Renaissance Courtesan's Alter Ego] in Zeitschrift für Kunstgeschichte, 54 Bd., H. 3 (1991), pp. 412-427; and cf. Horace, Odes III, 16:1-11]

Popular culture

* Brian: In the Monty Python comedy Life of Brian, Brian's mother was asked by a crowd of Brian's followers if she was a virgin. When she angrily declined to answer, this was taken by the crowd to be confirmation of the idea.
* Owen Meany: The hero from John Irving's "A Prayer for Owen Meany" was a virgin birth according to his mother. There are links between Owen and Jesus Christ in the novel, including Owen playing Jesus in a church nativity play.
* Anakin Skywalker: In the Star Wars saga, Anakin is the son of Shmi Skywalker, where it is hinted she was a virgin when giving birth to her son Anakin, a child of the Force.Fact|date=September 2008
* Julie Katz: In James Morrow's "Only Begotten Daughter", Murray Katz has a daughter from his own seed and a holy ovum.
 
*Jesus: The founder of the Christian faith was conceived, according to the Gospel of Matthew and the Gospel of Luke, in the virgin Mary without a father through the Holy Spirit (see virgin birth of Jesus).

This virginal conception is often confused with Mary's Immaculate Conception from her parents.

See above.

Only too true.
 
List of virgin births



Virgin birth (more strictly, virginal conception), in the proper sense, is differentiated from other miraculous births in that it is
# birth from a mother who is a virgin; and
# no male seed in any form is involved.

Thus a birth resulting from artificial insemination of a virgin would not be classified as a virgin birth. Similarly, asexual births involving only a father, such as Athena's mythological birth from Zeus's forehead, would similarly not be classified as a virgin birth under this definition.

Many alleged "virgin births" in ancient mythology are probably more accurately described as "miraculous births", since the mother is understood to have been impregnated by a god in either his own form or in an assumed form, as when Zeus impregnated Leda. For example, the births of Buddha, born from married parents, Krishna, the eighth son of Devaki, and Mithras, formed out of solid rock, were miraculous births, but were not the result of virginal conception by a virgin.

Christianity

*Jesus: The founder of the Christian faith was conceived, according to the Gospel of Matthew and the Gospel of Luke, in the virgin Mary without a father through the Holy Spirit (see virgin birth of Jesus). This virginal conception is often confused with Mary's Immaculate Conception from her parents.

Egyptian religions

*Mut-em-ua: The virgin Queen of Egypt, supposedly gave birth to Pharaoh Amenkept III through a god holding a cross to her mouth.
*Ra: The Egyptian sun god, was said to be born of a virgin.

Hinduism

*Krishna
*Karna

Assyrian and Babylonian religions

*Tammuz
*Zoroaster
*Tukulti-Ninurta II
*Ashurbanipal

Greco-Roman religions

*Alexander the Great [Plutarch, Life of Alexander,2-3]
*Antiope: Antiope was seduced by Zeus and bore him twin sons, Zethus and Amphion
*Attis: Attis was born to the virgin Nana who got pregnant after eating a pomegranate.
*Auge
*Dionysus:
*Melanippe
*Mithras: Mithras was born in a cave, to a rock.
*Romulus:Romulus was born to Rea Sivia, a mortal Vestal virgin. [Livy, History 1:3-4]

Chinese tradition

*Genghis Khan
*Lao-Tzu

Buddhism

*Gautama Buddha: Buddha was conceived to Maya without sexual activity.

tories sometimes interpreted as of virgin births

Mythology


Perseus: Perseus was the son of Danaë. She was locked away while a young girl, to prevent her having children, but Zeus came to her in the form of a shower of gold and impregnated her. The shower of gold has from ancient times been interpreted as a reference to bribery of those in charge of keeping her. The Greek Anthology has the following: ZEUS, turned to gold, piercing the brazen chamber of Danae, cut the knot of intact virginity. I think the meaning of the story is this, "Gold, the subduer of all things,gets the better of brazen walls and fetters; gold loosens all reins and opens every lock, gold makes the ladies with scornful eyes bend the knee. It was gold that bent the will of Danae. No need for a lover to pray to Aphrodite, if he brings money to offer." [ [http://www.ancientlibrary.com/greek-anthology/0252.html Book V, 217] ; cf. [http://www.jstor.org/pss/1482582 Cathy Santore: "Danaë: The Renaissance Courtesan's Alter Ego] in Zeitschrift für Kunstgeschichte, 54 Bd., H. 3 (1991), pp. 412-427; and cf. Horace, Odes III, 16:1-11]

Popular culture

* Brian: In the Monty Python comedy Life of Brian, Brian's mother was asked by a crowd of Brian's followers if she was a virgin. When she angrily declined to answer, this was taken by the crowd to be confirmation of the idea.
* Owen Meany: The hero from John Irving's "A Prayer for Owen Meany" was a virgin birth according to his mother. There are links between Owen and Jesus Christ in the novel, including Owen playing Jesus in a church nativity play.
* Anakin Skywalker: In the Star Wars saga, Anakin is the son of Shmi Skywalker, where it is hinted she was a virgin when giving birth to her son Anakin, a child of the Force.Fact|date=September 2008
* Julie Katz: In James Morrow's "Only Begotten Daughter", Murray Katz has a daughter from his own seed and a holy ovum.
I never knew there were so many!
 
I never knew there were so many!

I wonder what those fundamental "Bible Christians" say to the fact that Christianity has stolen the idea of the virgin birth from all those "pagans". :)
 
I wonder what those fundamental "Bible Christians" say to the fact that Christianity has stolen the idea of the virgin birth from all those "pagans". :)
I have my theory about why, I've brought it up before.

There's not much new under the sun.
 
If that innocent "Easter Bunny" is pagan and even satanic in the eyes of many over-pious "Bible Christians" - then the idea of the virgin birth is even more "pagan"
 
Where?
Can we have a link?

:)
It's pretty simple.
The Mother religions enacted fertility rites each spring using virgin priestesses who would have intercourse with a selected man in a sacred ceremony that would ensure the fertility of the crops. (Details varied) It was a very sacred, very Big Deal. She was a virgin; this was not considered run of the mill garden variety coupling. It was magic.

I think we hear echoes of that in the virgin birth, a very Big Deal, a spiritual creation.
 
It's pretty simple.
The Mother religions enacted fertility rites each spring using virgin priestesses who would have intercourse with a selected man in a sacred ceremony that would ensure the fertility of the crops. (Details varied) It was a very sacred, very Big Deal. She was a virgin; this was not considered run of the mill garden variety coupling. It was magic.

I think we hear echoes of that in the virgin birth, a very Big Deal, a spiritual creation.
That makes sense!
And some early Christians thought it would be a good idea to copy that concept - mysterious conception and all. :)
 
Typical...you ask questions that were already answered in my post...sswwwoooosssshhhhhhhhhhhh...

Typical...you think bible quotes say something that they do not. the bible does not explain what a physically perfect body is and why it can only be produced by a virgin birth.
 
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