disneydude
DP Veteran
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- Jan 30, 2006
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lol
Either you consider gay marriage a constitutional right, or you don't.
If you do, then every one of these states took away a constitutional right by majority vote.
If you don't, then no constitutional right was taken away in any situation.
What CA did was exactly the same as what everyone else did - the CA court just got there before the legislature did.
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What CA did was exactly the same as what everyone else did - the CA court just got there before the legislature did.
Whether I, you or anyone else personally consider something to be a "Constitutional Right" is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is, that is something that is either for the Courts or the Legislature in the form of an Amendment.
The California Constitutional right recognized gay marriage as a Constitutional right which was then eliminated by a 50% +1 popular vote. A dangerous precedent for other Constitutional rights. But Prop 8 remains the only time where a Constitutional right has been eliminated by a popular vote.
Not really sure what you are referring to here. The California Legislature TWICE passed legislation allowing gay marriage...so if that's what you are referring to, once again you are wrong. The Legislature got there before the Court.
The legislation was vetoed by our Republican Governor, who incidentally said it should rest in a decision by the California Supreme Court.
Again, only in the most convoluted way imaginable. The Prop 8 was effectively the exact same thing as the dozens of other amendments passed by other states. The only thing that's unique about it is that it came AFTER a state SC said that gay marriage was a constitutional right. It's nowhere near the groundbreaking thing that you're making it out to be.
You know that if legislation isn't signed by the governor, it doesn't become law, right?
Who's the one being "convoluted"....in the theoretical and legal sense of the word what I am saying is completely accurate. You are making an argument, that I don't disagree with in theory, but taken to the topic being discussed, is simply wrong and convoluted. Something doesn't become a Constitutional right because you, I or anyone else believes it should be
Er...this is exactly my point.
Thank you. Then you admit that you were wrong in your original assessment.
I'm trying to figure out how you came to that conclusion and am coming up blank.
Assuming that we agree that "Something doesn't become a Constitutional right because you, I or anyone else believes it should be," then the logical conclusion of that statement is that gay marriage either is or is not a constitutional right.
As I pointed out already, if gay marriage is a constitutional right, then every one of the aforementioned states took away a constitutional right by majority vote.
If you don't consider gay marriage a constitutional right, then no constitutional right was taken away by majority vote.
You're wrong regardless of the way you look at it.
I think this is what Disneydude is trying to articulate:
The California Supreme Court declared same-sex marriage to be a Constitutional right. The referendum took that away.
Has it ever happened anywhere else that a Constitutional right was declared legally, and then taken away by majority vote?
Prop 8 was effectively the exact same thing as the dozens of other amendments passed by other states. The only thing that's unique about it is that it came AFTER a state SC said that gay marriage was a constitutional right. It's nowhere near the groundbreaking thing that you're making it out to be.
I'm trying to figure out how you came to that conclusion and am coming up blank.
Assuming that we agree that "Something doesn't become a Constitutional right because you, I or anyone else believes it should be," then the logical conclusion of that statement is that gay marriage either is or is not a constitutional right.
As I pointed out already, if gay marriage is a constitutional right, then every one of the aforementioned states took away a constitutional right by majority vote.
If you don't consider gay marriage a constitutional right, then no constitutional right was taken away by majority vote.
You're wrong regardless of the way you look at it.
What your analysis fails to take into consideration is that there are State Constitutions and a Federal Constititution.
None of the states, other than California, that passed referendums had a ruling from their Supreme Court that recognized gay marriage as a Constitutional right. Thus, none of those referendums took away rights that were deemed Constitutional by the highest Courts.
California on the otherhand had ruled that prohibitions against gay marriage violated the California Constitution, thus recognizing gay marriage as a Constitutional right. Prop 8 eliminated that Constitutional right by a simple majority 50%+1 vote. Something that has never been done in the United State before and setting a dangerous precedent (at least in California) that Constitutional rights are subject to the whim of a simple majority.
That should be scary to anyone who values Constitutional rights.
You're free to be scared by this, but it's not even remotely new.
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