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That's interesting logic. Lol!
If the government can't require vaccines for the greater good, why can it have speed limits? What about health codes? If the government can't protect children from deadly illnesses, why can it protect them from terrorism?
Slippery slope is ****ing stupid.
A woman getting an abortion isn't spreading infections to those around her and causing THEM to spontaneously abort.
If a kid can get measles and not give it to anyone else, it wouldn't be our business. But that isn't the case.
An argument that leads to anarchy would have to be one that leads to the disbandment of the state. Calling for the control of the size of government is not an argument that leads to the disbandment of the state.
So people must get their body sovereignty violated because they might get sick and that might lead to other people getting sick? So to you the government should force medical treatment on people because of risks?
When that argument asymptotically approaches a limit or ZERO, yes it f'n is.
Do you mean to say a limit of zero? Nothing in his argument leads to no government.
so I must risk my body sovereignty because you want to protect yours?
Seems almost like your anti-VAX position could be used to undermine the 2A
Typo aside, yes, that's exactly where the argument is going.
Here's your problem. You're using Wikipedia, not a reliable resource.
Measles | Complications | CDCSome people may suffer from severe complications, such as pneumonia (infection of the lungs) and encephalitis (swelling of the brain). They may need to be hospitalized and could die.
•As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
•About one child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or mentally retarded.
•For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.
Measles may cause pregnant woman to give birth prematurely, or have a low-birth-weight baby.
WHO | MeaslesMeasles is one of the leading causes of death among young children even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available.
In 2013, there were 145 700 measles deaths globally – about 400 deaths every day or 16 deaths every hour.
Measles vaccination resulted in a 75% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2013 worldwide.
In 2013, about 84% of the world's children received one dose of measles vaccine by their first birthday through routine health services – up from 73% in 2000.
During 2000-2013, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 15.6 million deaths making measles vaccine one of the best buys in public health.
Sure. That does not mean flu shots are 95% ineffective. Nor does it change the source listed said 60% effective, which is not equivalent to saying 95% ineffective. This is not hard math folks.
This discussion is not about smallpox. It is about the measles vaccine, which did not exist in the 1940's and 50's. Please re-read the OP and try to keep up.
It was a miscommunication. All good. Sorry...
I will go back and say again that if the state denies entrance into a school for an unvaccinated kid then the state needs to supply that kid with a teacher...
No. It would be simply nice if they made them free.
.
I think I asked already but do you have any sources for this?
The skin provides an imposing barrier to invading microbes. It is generally penetrable only through cuts or tiny abrasions. The digestive and respiratory tracts—both portals of entry for a number of microbes—also have their own levels of protection. Microbes entering the nose often cause the nasal surfaces to secrete more protective mucus, and attempts to enter the nose or lungs can trigger a sneeze or cough reflex to force microbial invaders out of the respiratory passageways. The stomach contains a strong acid that destroys many pathogens that are swallowed with food.
If microbes survive the body’s front-line defenses, they still have to find a way through the walls of the digestive, respiratory, or urogenital passageways to the underlying cells. These passageways are lined with tightly packed epithelial cells covered in a layer of mucus, effectively blocking the transport of many pathogens into deeper cell layers.
Antibodies are triggered when a B cell encounters its matching antigen; the B cell takes in the antigen and digests it; then it displays antigen fragments bound to its own distinctive MHC molecules. The combination of antigen fragment and MHC molecule attracts the help of a mature, matching T cell. Lymphokines secreted by the T cell allow the B cell to multiply and mature into antibody-producing plasma cells. Released into the bloodstream, antibodies lock onto matching antigens. These antigen-antibody complexes are soon eliminated, either by the complement cascade or by the liver and the spleen.
B cells are triggered to mature into plasma cells that produce a specific kind of antibody when the B cell encounters a specific antigen.
Mucosal surfaces also secrete a special class of antibody called IgA, which in many cases is the first type of antibody to encounter an invading microbe. Underneath the epithelial layer a variety of immune cells, including macrophages, B cells, and T cells, lie in wait for any microbe that might bypass the barriers at the surface.
Next, invaders must escape a series of general defenses of the innate immune system, which are ready to attack without regard for specific antigen markers. These include patrolling phagocytes, natural killer T cells, and complement.
Microbes cross the general barriers then confront specific weapons of the adaptive immune system tailored just for them. These specific weapons, which include both antibodies and T cells, are equipped with singular receptor structures that allow them to recognize and interact with their designated targets.
So people must get their body sovereignty violated because they might get sick and that might lead to other people getting sick? So to you the government should force medical treatment on people because of risks?
Because vaccines are injected, they bypass the normal system of immune response. This is why many vaccines wear off far earlier than simply getting the virus.
Immunity: Natural and Acquired | Vaccines.gov
So did I. My mother was an RN...ob/gyn...at the time and had to take off work when her daughter...me...had measles. Then mumps, then German measles, then chicken pox....no vaccines. Her grasp of the realities...and her memory...are just fine. As is mine.
Now....where's a source for your claim about 65 infants/yr?
"Natural immunity?" You realize that things like smallpox and measles were killing people by the hundreds and thousands? Your "natural immunity" is a joke. The freakin virus found a way around that. Good lord. This is sad.
There is no logical reason to not get vaccines.
I was there during the measles outbreaks too.
My children were born in the 70s and the 80s and I had them vaccinated.
I never had rubella as a child so I had my blood tested and got the rubella shot to protect my pregnancies.
Not vaccinating is intentional neglect, it is choosing to not prevent very serious diseases by cheap/free/safe immunization. There are no rational reasons for not taking the simple step of immunization of a normal child, it is pure crackpotism to not immunize.Oh my... I can see that your failed argument is protected by a moral superiority complex. Cute but pathetic. I was not flippant. You just failed to comprehend my meaning, apparently.
Not vaccinating is not, not taking proper care because a disease is not an assured thing.
Bullchit, the chances of infection is VERY high when a non-immunized person is EXPOSED. The reason the risk of exposure is low in the US is because so many are IMMUNIZED. You are arguing to "not wear a safety belt" of immunization.The chances of getting it, even pre-vaccines, was not large. Injury and death due to not wearing a seat belt was a large chance of occurring though. Many people will never get the measles.
I say that you are blind to your own irony.Some people don't like playing Russian Roulette with their kids lives..
Sniff...I hurt your argument....so sad.stick that in your moral pipe, twist it and cast another insult. Please...
Not sure you understand how herd immunity works then...because when we see more and more unvaccinated people and the disease starts circulating......
I grew up in the 50's and measles vaccines were unheard of. It was a typical childhood disease that children got. We weathered it and moved on. Now, someone is carrying a torch for a disease that is just what it is, a typical childhood disease. Get the disease, and you're immune for life. It is not the end of the world.
I grew up in the 50's and measles vaccines were unheard of. It was a typical childhood disease that children got. We weathered it and moved on. Now, someone is carrying a torch for a disease that is just what it is, a typical childhood disease. Get the disease, and you're immune for life. It is not the end of the world.
Before 1963, approximately 500,000 cases and 500 deaths were reported annually, with epidemic cycles every 2–3 years. However, the actual number of cases was estimated at 3–4 million annually.
And we are talking about best practices for keeping kids safe.
Everyone is at risk in a car. So we shouldnt bother wearing seat belts? Just not put kids in safety seats because hey, they could die in a wreck anyway.
Your argument fails. I havent made any black and white statements regarding vaccines and their usage....and there are no foolproof methods to prevent disease. What we are discussing here are reasonable precautions for public health.
And if you choose to place others at additional risk, then the school/govt has the right to decide your kids can stay home and be homeschooled.
Except for of course those who died or suffered other long term effects such as deafness or mental retardation. They couldn't really move on so easily
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