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Upstate NY is probably VERY racist.

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98166

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Of course, not all of it, like say Ithaca or Rochester, but this article? I grew up around there, just South of Elise Stefanik's district and what this article writes about is no surprise.
Looking back at it, yea, I don't know how I survived around there.

www.northcountrypublicradio.org

Far-right extremism is thriving in rural areas. Here's what it looks like in Upstate NY

When we set out to look at far-right extremism in Upstate New York, we had a few basic questions. What do people believe in? What groups and militias have been active? We found that all kinds of extremist groups have tried to recruit people here.
www.northcountrypublicradio.org www.northcountrypublicradio.org
 
When my husband’s aunt and uncles were still alive, we would visit them in the Finger Lakes region and Rochester. It didn’t take long to see why the gay uncle moved to Rochester from Corning.

At that time it was rare for us to see someone in the Southern Tier who didn’t look Anglo. Traveling in that area made me realize how important a racially and ethnically mixed population was for me. A side trip to Toronto was a breath of fresh air; seeing downtown different cultures and hearing different accents and languages.

That said, the Finger Lakes Trail offers interesting hiking, as do old tow paths along abandoned canals. Beautiful country.
 
What kind of racism did you witness and/or experience in those harrowing days of your youth?
 
I grew up in Schenectady and there was ABSOLUTELY a separation of races in that region. There was also, without question, the prevalence of racist attitudes. Then again, there were also attitudes about Jews, Italians, Polish, WASPS, etc. Nobody was exempt from getting a stereotype tossed their way and, frankly, some of us played those stereotypes up. Then, when I was in the service, I ended up on duty with a black kid from somewhere in the south that kept calling me "sir". I was a little taken aback because we were both the same rank, doing the same job, etc. I asked him why he kept calling me "sir" and he told me it was because I was white and that's just the way things were where he was from. I just hadn't run into that before, giving someone deference merely because of their race. See, with all the racial and ethnic stereotypes where I came from there was still the underlying idea that those stereotypes only applied at a really superficial level and what REALLY made a difference was what kind of person you were.
 
Lutherf said:
I grew up in Schenectady and there was ABSOLUTELY a separation of races in that region. There was also, without question, the prevalence of racist attitudes. Then again, there were also attitudes about Jews, Italians, Polish, WASPS, etc. Nobody was exempt from getting a stereotype tossed their way and, frankly, some of us played those stereotypes up. Then, when I was in the service, I ended up on duty with a black kid from somewhere in the south that kept calling me "sir". I was a little taken aback because we were both the same rank, doing the same job, etc. I asked him why he kept calling me "sir" and he told me it was because I was white and that's just the way things were where he was from. I just hadn't run into that before, giving someone deference merely because of their race. See, with all the racial and ethnic stereotypes where I came from there was still the underlying idea that those stereotypes only applied at a really superficial level and what REALLY made a difference was what kind of person you were.
Click to expand...
Albany, Schenectady and Troy probably aren’t as bad as 10 miles or especially 20 miles outside of each, because of The Colleges/Universities.

Glens Falls? Yea that’s Stefanik’s District 😡
 
98166 said:
Of course, not all of it, like say Ithaca or Rochester, but this article? I grew up around there, just South of Elise Stefanik's district and what this article writes about is no surprise.
Looking back at it, yea, I don't know how I survived around there.

www.northcountrypublicradio.org

Far-right extremism is thriving in rural areas. Here's what it looks like in Upstate NY

When we set out to look at far-right extremism in Upstate New York, we had a few basic questions. What do people believe in? What groups and militias have been active? We found that all kinds of extremist groups have tried to recruit people here.
www.northcountrypublicradio.org www.northcountrypublicradio.org
Click to expand...
Wow, it sounds like you and I grew up in the same area but have a very different take.

I grew up in Saratoga County (just south of Stefanik's district). Although I left there a long time ago, I have zero memory of the area being racist or politically backward. At the time, my congressman was Republican, as was my town ... it has since shifted Democratic. I just did not have the experience you had there.

Now, you could go into rural areas around there and I suspect see similar politics that exists in many rural areas in America. When I look at Stefanik's district in the context of my experience there, it doesn't look that hard core red to me. Sure, its more Republican than not. That said, I do not have too much direct experience with extreme northern NY (Plattsburgh to Massena) the area along Lake Ontario. I suspect they are quite red having suffered from the de-industrialization of New York, which likely makes them have a MAGA affinity (which does have a racist component to it). Though I don't believe all MAGAs are racist, just too many of them are. I did (and still do occassionaly) spent a fair amount of time in the Adirondacks. The residents there are generally Republican, but no one lives there. In my recent trips there, I saw overt racism.

That all said, I find that hard to believe (not in doubting sense, except maybe doubting my own recollection) that such activities happened in Ballston Spa, of all places. Its the county seat of Saratoga County, just a few miles from Saratoga Springs, a pretty progressive community. Neither of which are in Stefanik's district, but represented by 8 term Democratic congressman Paul Tonko. Though, racism can rear its ugly head anywhere, I don't accept the the NPR story well characterizes that particular area.
 
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98166 said:
Of course, not all of it, like say Ithaca or Rochester, but this article? I grew up around there, just South of Elise Stefanik's district and what this article writes about is no surprise.
Looking back at it, yea, I don't know how I survived around there.

www.northcountrypublicradio.org

Far-right extremism is thriving in rural areas. Here's what it looks like in Upstate NY

When we set out to look at far-right extremism in Upstate New York, we had a few basic questions. What do people believe in? What groups and militias have been active? We found that all kinds of extremist groups have tried to recruit people here.
www.northcountrypublicradio.org www.northcountrypublicradio.org
Click to expand...

The snake known as Elise Stefanik represents NY-21, which is in deeply upstate New York.
 
upsideguy said:
Wow, it sounds like you and I grew up in the same area but have a very different take.

I grew up in Saratoga County (just south of Stefanik's district). Although I left there a long time ago, I have zero memory of the area being racist or politically backward. At the time, my congressman was Republican, as was my town ... it has since shifted Democratic. Sorry, I just did not have the experience you had there. Now, you could go into rural areas around there and I suspect see similar politics that exists in many rural areas in America. When I look at Stefanik's district in the context of my experience there, it doesn't look that hard core red to me. Sure, its more Republican than not. That said, I do not have too much direct experience with extreme northern NY (Plattsburgh to Massena) the area along Lake Ontario. I suspect they are quite red having suffered from the de-industrialization of New York, which likely makes them have a MAGA affinity, which has a racist component to it. Though I don't believe all MAGAs are racist, just too many of them are. I did (and still do occassionaly) spent a fair amount of time in the Adirondacks. The residents there are generally Republican, but no one lives there. In my recent trips there, I never found overt racism.

That all said, I find that hard to believe (not in doubting sense, except maybe doubting my own recollection) that such activities happened in Ballston Spa, which is not in Stefanik's district.
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Several people who gave me racially motivated teasing in school turned out to be MAGAs/Trumpsters as adults

On my last visit there, Fall 21, in Saratoga, I didn’t see in 72 hours any Trump flags. However in Towns like Charlton and Renseeleer County, I saw at least 5😡

I think what happened there in Stefanik’s district (just like say Iowa) is while it’s 90% White well they usually voted Democrat and even voted for Obama both times or he barely lost. But when racist Trump ran in 15 it fired up these losers just enough to go out and vote and now the area is pretty darn red
 
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98166 said:
Several people who gave me racially motivated teasing in school turned out to be MAGAs/Trumpsters as adults

On my last visit there, Fall 21, in Saratoga, I didn’t see in 72 hours any Trump flags. However in Towns like Charlton and Renseeleer County, I saw at least 5😡

I think what happened there in Stefanik’s district (just like say Iowa) is while it’s 90% White well they usually voted Democrat and even voted for Obama both times or he barely lost. But when racist Trump ran in 15 your fired up these losers just enough to go out and vote and now the area is pretty darn red
Click to expand...
Yes, now that we are having this discussion, I am wondering if Stefanik's going full MAGA is giving the racists permission to come out of their holes and display their racism full bore. The last time I was in the Adirondacks was 2019. I suppose things can change appreciably if the change is simply giving these people safe harbor to flaunt their hate. When they were underground, they were not seen, though they were there. I rarely experienced overt racism in that area.

I grew up in Clifton Park, which at the time was lily white. Never really gave racism much thought. Then I went to college in Albany, which was an exceptionally diverse school, but I was very comfortable with the diversity, again never gave racism much thought. I lived in NYC for a couple of years, generally very comfortable with the diversity there. I just never really had racism thrust in my face until recently. I now find it repugnant.
 
Lutherf said:
I grew up in Schenectady and there was ABSOLUTELY a separation of races in that region. There was also, without question, the prevalence of racist attitudes. Then again, there were also attitudes about Jews, Italians, Polish, WASPS, etc. Nobody was exempt from getting a stereotype tossed their way and, frankly, some of us played those stereotypes up. Then, when I was in the service, I ended up on duty with a black kid from somewhere in the south that kept calling me "sir". I was a little taken aback because we were both the same rank, doing the same job, etc. I asked him why he kept calling me "sir" and he told me it was because I was white and that's just the way things were where he was from. I just hadn't run into that before, giving someone deference merely because of their race. See, with all the racial and ethnic stereotypes where I came from there was still the underlying idea that those stereotypes only applied at a really superficial level and what REALLY made a difference was what kind of person you were.
Click to expand...


And what do you think would have happened to the black kid if he was back home and did not say sir to the white folk?

That superficial racism enforced the underlying racism especially. It made it part of everyday life.

That black kid certainly knew that going to certain parts of town was not allowed. Going to certain stores would not be allowed. Heck he certainly knew that dating a white girl would not have been allowed.

As long as he followed those unwritten rules everything was fine
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
And what do you think would have happened to the black kid if he was back home and did not say sir to the white folk?

That superficial racism enforced the underlying racism especially. It made it part of everyday life.

That black kid certainly knew that going to certain parts of town was not allowed. Going to certain stores would not be allowed. Heck he certainly knew that dating a white girl would not have been allowed.

As long as he followed those unwritten rules everything was fine
Click to expand...
To be fair, there were parts of Schenectady that I wasn't welcome in too, because of my race. It's not like things were all one sided.
 
Lutherf said:
To be fair, there were parts of Schenectady that I wasn't welcome in too, because of my race. It's not like things were all one sided.
Click to expand...

Would that be the part white folks forced black folks into?
 
j brown's body said:
Would that be the part white folks forced black folks into?
Click to expand...
We weren't forcing anyone to live anywhere. The neighborhood I grew up in was significantly mixed race but there was absolutely a black neighborhood in town just as there is in most cities.
 
Lutherf said:
To be fair, there were parts of Schenectady that I wasn't welcome in too, because of my race. It's not like things were all one sided.
Click to expand...
Black folks don't agreesively freak out when White Folks come into their community, maybe strange looks but that's it. Plus Schenectady doesn't have a heavily Black section. Quit trying to equate.
 
98166 said:
Black folks don't agreesively freak out when White Folks come into their community, maybe strange looks but that's it. Plus Schenectady doesn't have a heavily Black section. Quit trying to equate.
Click to expand...
Maybe things have changed since I left in 1988 but the Hamilton Hill neighborhood was pretty much all black and a great place to get mugged.

No Schenectady isn't all that dangerous but that neighborhood was one white folks just didn't frequent.
 
venice_ca said:
When my husband’s aunt and uncles were still alive, we would visit them in the Finger Lakes region and Rochester. It didn’t take long to see why the gay uncle moved to Rochester from Corning.

At that time it was rare for us to see someone in the Southern Tier who didn’t look Anglo. Traveling in that area made me realize how important a racially and ethnically mixed population was for me. A side trip to Toronto was a breath of fresh air; seeing downtown different cultures and hearing different accents and languages.

That said, the Finger Lakes Trail offers interesting hiking, as do old tow paths along abandoned canals. Beautiful country.
Click to expand...


We have to decide what's impoetant in life and live with the rest. If upstate NY seems racist to you, stay away. Personally I love living in Upstate NY
Prior to moving here a few years ago I lived in Connecticut for 35 years where everyone around me was entirely liberal while I'm very conservative. You know what I did? I sucked it up and got on with my life. I found I had a lot more in common with my very liberal friends and neighbors Life is not always easy. If you don't like it, suck it up and move on.
 
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