UtahBill said:Insurance companies, home, auto, health, etc. control or mangage a major chunk of the wealth in this country. They can afford to give up a portion of their control by allowing a limited Universal Health care program, like I have described before. We still take care of ourselves either thru our own funds or an insurance plan that only covers ordinary health issues. The big items that would destroy the finances of a family, or require them to sell their home just to pay for life saving treatment, are the ones that Universal Health care should cover. If people are not paying the first $5000 or so out of their own pocket, they will disconnect from the responsibilities of maintaining a healthy lifestyle. Those who insist on smoking, drinking excessively, etc. can pay extra accordingly. Those who are getting drugs and sex off the street can pay for all of their healthcare themselves.
The insurance companies can take a partial hit on loss of income and the nation will likely be better for it. They surely don't PRODUCE anything that we can sell to other countries.
But think how much healthier they would be if they quit the smoking, excessive drinking, etc. I don't know the facts and figures on lifestyle related diseases for here or across the pond, but I am sure that they have their share of problems. Culture has a lot to do with it. A lot of Europeans drink wine and beer a lot more often, such as with meals, but without having as much of the heavy drinking and drunkeness that we have.Kelzie said:I would agree that people would be unhealthier if we saw it in other countries. But we don't. In fact, as far as health goes, that's the only thing that stops the US from smoking the other countries in standard of living. They are healthier than we are. According to you, since they don't pay the first $5000, it should be the opposite.
UtahBill said:But think how much healthier they would be if they quit the smoking, excessive drinking, etc. I don't know the facts and figures on lifestyle related diseases for here or across the pond, but I am sure that they have their share of problems. Culture has a lot to do with it. A lot of Europeans drink wine and beer a lot more often, such as with meals, but without having as much of the heavy drinking and drunkeness that we have.
Reminds me of a friend who once asked me how come I always had money to spend and he was always broke, since we made the same salary and each of us had 2 kids. I reminded him that he bought beer, and wine, by the case, and cigarettes by the carton. He had a closet half full of the stuff. He was always putting something in his mouth. Culture and lifestyle will always be part of the difference between us and them.
Most of us have some kind of health issue that we are abusing, for me it is donuts. If I lived any closer to Krispy Kreme, or Chik Filet, I would be having a more serious problem than I now have with keeping my weight down. :lol:
That's a great rate for your age bracket, congratulations. I assume you have a PPO plan, but that's just based on your monthly premium.UtahBill said:My retirement does not cover my medical so I have a major medical policy for myself to cover me until medicare age. At age 59, I pay only $142 per month for $5,000 deductible. Not a bad deal at all.Sad thing is, many potential customers will substitute lifestyle expenses for insurance, I was planning on making that point, glad you beat me to it.Beer and cigarette money for a lot of people.True enough, every company has in the contract some provision allowing for that, one of the most common reasons are falsifying pre-existing conditions, another, like one of the companies I sell through have that provision and a lifetime maximum allowance. But basically, it's a risk assessment thing, unfortunately, with the priceBut there still could be situations where an insurance company drops you, or you lose your job taking care of a spouse and they drop you. There needs to be a safety net so we don't lose all we have just to stay alive. Perhaps an umbrella policy of sorts?rofit ratio it has to be done that way, and it's one of the things that always dissappoints me, I really do wish we could serve customers more thoroughly, but then again I'm one of the more client oriented agents.
Yikes! 15K a year is harsh, it happens, but there may be some private sector solutions to his retirement drain, a good financial planner would need to look at his portfolio.My rates are based on age, general good health history, and being a non-smoker/drinker. My only bad habit is caffeine.
However, a friend has to pay a LOT more for his wife due to serious long term debilitating disease and it is eating up his retirement income. He pays almost $15,000 per year just for her insurance alone. His retirement includes his medical.
It's a principle thing, the same people who don't want to deal with me because insurance isn't something they can have fun with, or isn't satisfying till they need it are the one's who would put me out of the health business, so, why should I do anything to help them out, including more work.As for loss of income, you are being very self centered. We have had whole industries and job types displaced by technology, and we adapted. We can't be Luddites selectively.It's not as easy as you would think, most of our time is spent screaming at clerks who mess up the clients plan, or sluggish response to said clients needs, I will admit that it looks easy, but trust me, we earn our money.Besides, the 4 insurance agents that I know make very good money for doing very little.AFLAC is a very good product, there are more hoops to jump through to get a group signed, but they do a very good job after the initial process is completed.One of them sells one product, AFLAC, and he lives very well. He was the first agent for them in the area, tho.
IA bad broker can literally ruin you, that's part three of my career plan, but yeah, I hear you on that, see if there are any ethics violations you can get him on, you'll save other people a big headache.found out how much my stock broker was getting paid to give me bad advice (when he wasn't out playing tennis or handball) and found a better deal elsewhere.At least it's a job, there are people who don't do anything and live off the sweat of others, when you break it down though, that attitude pervades all jobs, lazy employees, lazy brokers, it's pretty much the same concept.There are some jobs out there where the people think that they are entitled to live off the sweat of others.we make mistakes like anyone else, I don't mind so much getting rid of some in upper management, but it honestly won't make much of a dent in costs, insurance rates are all risk based, salaries are secondary.Insurance is necessary, some is even required, but that doesn't mean that the industry can't adjust itself a bit.
Try firing 20% of all upper management, 10% of all middle management, and 5% of all others. Then pass the savings on to your customers. What a concept!
It's a myth that we're ripping off customers, some companies are less than ethical, true, but that is not an exclusive to our profession. Trust me though, I'd love to have a more affordable product, my profits would go through the roof, but it's not an option.Make insurance more affordable, and stop ripping off those who have high dollar illnesses thru no fault of their own, and you will likely get more customers.
Risk to cost ratio, legal by necessity.Charge a LOT extra for those who insist on unhealthy lifestyles. That is legal discrimination, by the way.
Well, not all aspects of capitalism are good anyway. I was mostly joking about that, but socialism has proven itself to be a dismal failure, it assumes people care about their society, which is against human nature, in that assumption it punishes initiative, thus bringing down the upper class at an attempt at equilibrium instead of bringing up the lower class, misery for all, yay!Not all aspects of communism/socialism are bad, and not all aspects of capitalism are good. You can't scare me with those old ghosts.:2wave:
I'm an independent agent, I'm always at work.BTW, are you posting from WORK?
That's a great rate for your age bracket, congratulations. I assume you have a PPO plan, but that's just based on your monthly premium. Sad thing is, many potential customers will substitute lifestyle expenses for insurance, I was planning on making that point, glad you beat me to it.
It's a principle thing, the same people who don't want to deal with me because insurance isn't something they can have fun with, or isn't satisfying till they need it are the one's who would put me out of the health business, so, why should I do anything to help them out, including more work.
I'm an independent agent, I'm always at work.
I don't even bother trying to sell health coverage to veterans and those in the program because I can't beat it. Not that I'm complaining , you and the rest of your brothers in arms have certainly earned the right to excellent health and retirement benefits.UtahBill said:As soon as I turn 60, my military reserve kicks in and I can drop the insurance that I have, which is BCBS. After $5K, I pay 20%. But they also knew that I had just had a physical, including a check up for the one genetically related health issue that runs in my family, and that they would only be covering me for 18 months.
Most of the bankruptcies in this country would have to do with bad financial planning, I don't make much money now, so I have to let certain things I want go, it's that simple, hopefully things will pick up as I gain more experience, but I sure won't let myself go down the tubes just to live like those in my field who have already made theirs, it makes no sense.I have argued in another debate about people who go bankrupt, allegedly due to medical bills over half the time, and that is false. Medical bills only contribute to about 25% of the reasons that people file bankruptcy, despite the one very biased study that others like to quote. High living, above and beyond income, is the bulk of it.
I've got to laugh about that one, I have seen this personally, I have done quotes for people who had brand new vehicles, smoked more heavily than myself, had nice homes, but nothing left for insurances, I gave a pretty reasonable quote, but they would be in the hole and couldn't afford it; I lost a sale and they were at risk, but there's nothing I could have done.Re something to have fun with, I have noticed that people complain about spending $2,000 to have their car motor fixed, but have no problem spending twice that to get their boat motor fixed. I am thinking of doing that kind of thing for a summer job once we get moved to our retirement home in northern Utah, seems it pays very well!
I agree with helping those who want to improve and contribute, that honestly would not cost our country as much as a universal health plan, and my industry would still be happy, but you're right that we have too many self-serving politicians these days who simply tell people what they want to hear, consequences and their own position be damned.Quoting from a book (Religion in American Public Life, put out by the Brookings Institution), but the quote applies to other issues as well.
"all social classes have a role maintaining the ideal city, but political power should be monopolized by an intellectual elite who comprehend the interest of the social whole". That is Plato speaking.
Our country sort of started out that way, but the intellectual elite who comprehend the interest of the social whole part has failed. Our elite MAY be intellectual, and may even comprehend the interest of society, but they are not putting that into practice very well. The selfishness aspect of our human nature has taken over. Our business leaders are more interested in personal wealth, far and above what should be enough for even the most greedy among us. Our governmental leaders are more interested in spreading democracy to the rest of the world than taking care of our own citizens. A better way to spread the gospel of democracy is to be the shining city on the hill, the beacon that the rest of the world looks to as an example of what government should be, and that includes taking care of those citizens who are unable (but not the unwilling) to take care of themselves.
I don't mind having a safety net with some qualifications, and yeah, we have allowed our government to become a behemoth over the years, it is our fault as a nation.That is why I think we need some form of protection in the health care arena provided or mandated by our government. They can force us to have insurance on our bodies, like they do on our cars, or they can tax us for the payments if we are not willing to purchase it on our own. Certainly too many of us ordinary citizens share the blame as we have stood by and let the self appointed elite get away with self enrichment to the detriment of society as a whole.
:rofland that is my sermon on health care, tune in next week for a similar rant on education..:smile:
alphieb said:Through your employer....that is outrageous. I bet that doesn't leave much income left.
alphieb said:Actually, I believe you. My oldest son's dad works for Toyato full time and the family plan is over $700.00 per month as well and you still have co-pays and deductibles.
Iriemon said:Even worse, for me. I took a sabbatical a couple years ago, and I couldn't even get health insurance for myself. I have a mild case of diabetes, which makes me uninsurable from a private insurance standpoint. For a while I was one of the 45 million uninsured.
Iriemon said:Even worse, for me. I took a sabbatical a couple years ago, and I couldn't even get health insurance for myself. I have a mild case of diabetes, which makes me uninsurable from a private insurance standpoint. For a while I was one of the 45 million uninsured.
Calm2Chaos said:I feel no sorrow for the insurance companies, there whores.
Originally Posted by Calm2Chaos
I feel no sorrow for the insurance companies, there whores.
This is one of the attitudes that makes my job even harder. I am an honest agent and represent some very good companies, the true value comes from a policy that allows you to breathe easier. In fact, my favorite complaint is this exact one "it costs me too much and then I never use it, so what am I paying for" this is when I get to turn around with "yes, but, if you didn't have it, how much would that cost you" the fact us that if a n insurance policy does exactly what it's supposed to, prevent catastrophic loss upon need, then it isn't exactly a ripoff is it?MrFungus420 said:I totally disagree with this. It's like refering to politicians as whores. Whores give an honest return for the money.
Iriemon said:Even worse, for me. I took a sabbatical a couple years ago, and I couldn't even get health insurance for myself. I have a mild case of diabetes, which makes me uninsurable from a private insurance standpoint. For a while I was one of the 45 million uninsured.
You can get it, I just don't have any companies that will sell it to you. There are companies that will take on just about anyone, but they aren't cheap, and not usually that great. We have a saying in this business though "the more it costs, the more you need it" it comes from the fact that we as agents don't set prices, actuaries set them according to risk tables and they are so good it's scary, esp. life insurance, the best companies have actuarial departments that can tell you plus or minus one life on average how many people will die of what each year.alphieb said:People that truly need Health Insurance can't get it. Something is wrong with that picture.
LaMidRighter said:This is one of the attitudes that makes my job even harder. I am an honest agent and represent some very good companies, the true value comes from a policy that allows you to breathe easier.
LaMidRighter said:In fact, my favorite complaint is this exact one "it costs me too much and then I never use it, so what am I paying for" this is when I get to turn around with "yes, but, if you didn't have it, how much would that cost you"
LaMidRighter said:the fact us that if a n insurance policy does exactly what it's supposed to, prevent catastrophic loss upon need, then it isn't exactly a ripoff is it?
MrFungus420 said:I totally disagree with this. It's like refering to politicians as whores. Whores give an honest return for the money.
LaMidRighter said:You can get it, I just don't have any companies that will sell it to you. There are companies that will take on just about anyone, but they aren't cheap, and not usually that great. We have a saying in this business though "the more it costs, the more you need it"
LaMidRighter said:it comes from the fact that we as agents don't set prices, actuaries set them according to risk tables and they are so good it's scary, esp. life insurance, the best companies have actuarial departments that can tell you plus or minus one life on average how many people will die of what each year.
LaMidRighter said:How many companies have you tried to sign with? The reason I ask is because some have more lenient underwriting policies than others, it's all basically done on a point system, each condition being a certain amount against the applicant. Of course, some companies are real harsh and anything will get you thrown right out. I am sure though that there are some companies that can pick you up and don't have really strict exclusions.
I am not in the insurance industry, for starters. What you say is silly. Apparently you have nothing worth insuring, or are so independently wealthy that you are self insured. If not, you are taking a risk with your hard assets.MrFungus420 said:Sorry, there is nothing that an insurance company can offer me that would make me breathe easier. All they have to offer me is the opportunity to give them my money with less return than I could get from my bank if I were to deposit it.
I would love that question. If I never need it and never use it, then it automatically costs me too much. It is nothing more than padding the pockets of the insurance companies.
And, if it never does that, then it obviously is.
So, I stand by my comment. Comparing insurance companies to whores is an insult to whores. Whores give you an honest return for your money.
Mixed View said:Personally I think a universal healthcare plan would help American people more than hurt. We're a nation of equall of oportunity, and with the way our health care is, the rich get help and the poor have to suffer with their sicknesses because they can't offord their medical payments. Doesn't seem fair.
It is unfair, but short of deporting 10,000,000 illegals and making the poor and lazy take those jobs, what can you do?:roll:Calm2Chaos said:What doesn't seem fair is that I have to pay for the chronically unemployed and the forever lazy's healthcare. Thats okay,i'll stick with my private healthcare. If I loose my job maybe I will switch my views...LOL
UtahBill said:It is unfair, but short of deporting 10,000,000 illegals and making the poor and lazy take those jobs, what can you do?:roll:
Calm2Chaos said:Stick with private healthcare. Until I am shown differently I think Universal is going to cost me more and reduce what I get for my dollar in the end as far as service and treatment is concerned
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