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Leftist analogies never really work. You should avoid them altogether.And is then the actions of THOSE that do not ask her to speak that are the issue, not those who protested of her speaking. Let's put it this way... let's say that a business decides that they will not serve gays and members of the community do not like this policy, speak out about it, and encourage others to not shop there... which they don't, which causes the business to go bankrupt. Should that be allowed to happen? Who's responsibility is it for the business going bankrupt?
So you remain unaware that the University was pressured from CAIR and other Muslim groups?Muslims didn't decide what is going to be said. Brandeis decided to not let her speak at this venue. She can still speak on the internet, in books, and anywhere else that will accept her.
She will never be invited to another American University. Pressure from Islamic groups have again won the day and they will continue to do so.ONE University.
Actually, the reverse is true.
Okay, I acknowledge your argument. I will say she has the right to voice her opinions, I guess I should have rather said that I HOPE the American people don't listen to her. Let her speak all she wants, but I'd hope that we as a people would be educated enough to know what she says is complete bull
here is your post where you explained it was the islamists threats which caused her recognition to be rescinded. now share with me what i missed:
What lies and half trues are you referring to? Female genital mutilation is a lie? Marrying young girls against their wishes is a lie?She is no different than hundreds of people who have left a faith tradition or cultural and then spread lies and half-truths.
Islam deserves to have many horrible things said about because there are many horrible things going on within that religion. Islam is a set of beliefs and, like any beliefs, they may contain crap. Islam has a lot of crap in it and some sort of reformation has to take place but, unfortunately, those who gained power through the present system would never want that. And it's adherents are often to blind and uneducated to be 'reformed'.Brandeis is one of the centers of Jewish learning in this country. Deeply rooted in Jewish education and culture they are also a liberal community that struggles with difficult topics. This woman has said horrible things about Islam in general not just the extremists who use Islam to exploit power. Average Muslims are not in any way like the way she depicts Islam. Again, many of the anti-woman laws and customs pre-date Islam in Arabic culture and of course they are not ubiquitous in the Muslim world.
Exactly! And these are the people we must reach. Brandeis is not doing anyone any favors by caving to islamic pressures.Now those who want her dead for her positions are worse. They not only pervert Islam but step outside of modernity and seek to find a place for their particular form of authoritarian positions.
Quite right. But then theyy should never have offered the invitation in the first place.But here is the thing, Brandeis has no obligation to honor this woman or anyone. They are not legally, morally or culturally obligated to give anyone a forum or show support for anyone who the community disagrees with. While Brandeis should have never extended the invite to this honor the reaction of many people in the greater Brandeis community to her was real.
Yes, her freedom of speech is still intact but the venues for free speech continue to shrink. The new mantra is that everyone has free speech but you must suffer the consequences if you use that right.BTW her first amendment rights are still intact and anyone saying differently is ignorant of what the 1st is.
What lies and half trues are you referring to? Female genital mutilation is a lie? Marrying young girls against their wishes is a lie?
Islam deserves to have many horrible things said about because there are many horrible things going on within that religion. Islam is a set of beliefs and, like any beliefs, they may contain crap. Islam has a lot of crap in it and some sort of reformation has to take place but, unfortunately, those who gained power through the present system would never want that. And it's adherents are often to blind and uneducated to be 'reformed'.
Exactly! And these are the people we must reach. Brandeis is not doing anyone any favors by caving to islamic pressures.
Quite right. But then theyy should never have offered the invitation in the first place.
NO that is the mantra from the beginning. Free speech does not and never meant free of consequences. It is whining ignorance to you don't have to deal with fall out of unpopular speech. Or should I sue you for not letting me have a pro-Muslim rally on your front lawn.Yes, her freedom of speech is still intact but the venues for free speech continue to shrink. The new mantra is that everyone has free speech but you must suffer the consequences if you use that right.
Accusations are easy but facts are far more relevant.Well she is an admitted liar about her story. She is hardly a feminist as she allied herself with some pretty anti-woman positions in The Netherlands. As for what you mentioned, while genital mutilation occurs in the Islamic world it is not an Islamic practice and her own marriage story was a lie so hmmmmmm.
So we can all be critical of Christianity because of the extremists? Cool. All Christians can now be painted with the Westboro Baptist label.
Where did anyone lump all Muslims together? It seems you should be using quotes because these wild statements of yours have lost any credibility.Actually they are living up to their values. There are many people being critical of extremists......we don't need a liar who lumps all Muslims together.
Maybe they read her books and realized what a brave woman she is. Perhaps they were also against child brides and female genital mutilation. Maybe they were against capital punishment for Gays or women who commit adultery. They haven't said much in that area except that there were protests by the usual suspects.Which is what I said at the beginning. In fact I ask people there why no one read her Wiki page ahead of the invite.
This Muslim 'fall-out of unpopular speech' includes murder, violence, rioting, and billions of dollars in the destruction of property.NO that is the mantra from the beginning. Free speech does not and never meant free of consequences. It is whining ignorance to you don't have to deal with fall out of unpopular speech. Or should I sue you for not letting me have a pro-Muslim rally on your front lawn.
Well she is an admitted liar about her story. She is hardly a feminist as she allied herself with some pretty anti-woman positions in The Netherlands. As for what you mentioned, while genital mutilation occurs in the Islamic world it is not an Islamic practice and her own marriage story was a lie so hmmmmmm.
So we can all be critical of Christianity because of the extremists? Cool. All Christians can now be painted with the Westboro Baptist label.
Actually they are living up to their values. There are many people being critical of extremists......we don't need a liar who lumps all Muslims together.
Which is what I said at the beginning. In fact I ask people there why no one read her Wiki page ahead of the invite.
NO that is the mantra from the beginning. Free speech does not and never meant free of consequences. It is whining ignorance to you don't have to deal with fall out of unpopular speech. Or should I sue you for not letting me have a pro-Muslim rally on your front lawn.
Accusations are easy but facts are far more relevant.
Sure, but be aware that Christians condemned the Westboro Church and even allowed them to speak. But if you want to condemn all Christians for their behavior, go ahead. Why should I expect more?
Where did anyone lump all Muslims together? It seems you should be using quotes because these wild statements of yours have lost any credibility.
Maybe they read her books and realized what a brave woman she is. Perhaps they were also against child brides and female genital mutilation. Maybe they were against capital punishment for Gays or women who commit adultery. They haven't said much in that area except that there were protests by the usual suspects.
This Muslim 'fall-out of unpopular speech' includes murder, violence, rioting, and billions of dollars in the destruction of property.
What would you be saying that is 'pro-Muslim' on my front lawn? Perhaps this might be a good time to point out the positives of Islamic indoctrination.
she lied to get herself out of Somalia and into the West.Funny you don't know anything about her if you didn't know he admitted she was a liar and resigned from Parliament.
Which is absolutely TRUE.Sababa said:But that is what this woman is doing to Islam.........
When she said [It is not] "a fringe group of radical Muslims who've hijacked Islam and that the majority of Muslims are moderate. [...] Violence is inherent in Islam – it's a destructive, nihilistic cult of death. It legitimates murder."
Also true. Bravo Ayaan!sababa said:Reason: Do you think Islam could bring about similar social and political changes?
Hirsi Ali: Only if Islam is defeated. Because right now, the political side of Islam, the power-hungry expansionist side of Islam, has become superior to the Sufis and the Ismailis and the peace-seeking Muslims.
Reason: Don’t you mean defeating radical Islam?
Hirsi Ali: No. Islam, period. Once it’s defeated, it can mutate into something peaceful. It’s very difficult to even talk about peace now. They’re not interested in peace.
No, her life story is by-and-large true.sababa said:maybe there is compelling stories, but her life story was a lie.....so...........
BS.sababa said:no there are some Muslims who do that.......but here is the thing....that is true of other groups as well.
she lied to get herself out of Somalia and into the West.
She's not a "liar" and is Not wrong about Islam.
YOU are wrong about Islam.
Which is absolutely TRUE.
Scores of Links available, including info I already posted in the string.
Islam applauds murder of it's critics, apostates, and assorted other 'sinners'. (like gays and adulterers)
It's in the book.
The problem is the great Majority/Mainstream/Literal Islam, not a few terrorists that it inevitably spawns.
Also true. Bravo Ayaan!
That would be near the same opinion of practicing Muslim reformer, Irshad Manji. (whose life is also in Danger, even in Canada)
Both (and me) have called for a Muslim Reformation such a happened to Christianity 500 years ago.
Radical fringes don't need reformations, Mainstream Islam does.
Of course, Islam had a 'reformation' a century or two ago and that's called Wahhabism.
Ooops!
No, her life story is by-and-large true.
The woman who escaped Standard Literal Islam (not even 'Radical' islam) and his a hero for speaking out.
Your posts, otoh, are lies.
Did you notice in your "reply" above..Posted before I finished. There are Christian militia in Africa killing people for simply not being Christian......those are ignored.
Bombings are common...so what are you talking about?
Duh Yeah, I know.sababa said:Posted before I finished. There are Christian militia in Africa killing people for simply not being Christian......those are ignored. Bombings are common...so what are you talking about?
thereligionofpeace.com said:Weekly Jihad Report
Apr 05 - Apr 11
Jihad Attacks: 50
Allahu Akbars*: 5 (suicide bombings)
Dead Bodies: 594
Critically Injured: 582
thereligionofpeace.com said:Monthly Jihad Report
March, 2014
Jihad Attacks: 216
Countries:.. 19
Religions: . ... . 5
Dead Bodies:: 1479
Critically Injured: 2093
-- Date --- Country ---- - -- - Killed - Injured
2014.04.16 Nigeria Wala -- - -- 18 - 7 Eighteen people are slaughtered by militants fighting for Islamic law.
2014.04.15 -- Iraq - Baiji -- -- -- 2 - 0 Two brothers bleed to death following a Mujahideen bombing.
2014.04.14 Nigeria Abuja - - -- 86 257 Activists for an Islamic state slaughter over eighty innocents at a bus stop with a massive bomb blast.
2014.04.14 Syria Maaloula - - -- 3 - -0 Three Shia journalists are picked off by Sunni gunmen.
2014.04.14 Israel Hevron ------- 1 -- 4 Terrorists kill a Jewish man in front of his family.
[........]
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In fact that is common knowledge. Read her biography.Funny you don't know anything about her if you didn't know he admitted she was a liar and resigned from Parliament.
The woman is doing nothing to Islam.But that is what this woman is doing to Islam.........
Where do you have a problem with this?When she said [It is not] "a fringe group of radical Muslims who've hijacked Islam and that the majority of Muslims are moderate. [...] Violence is inherent in Islam – it's a destructive, nihilistic cult of death. It legitimates murder." From Reason Magazine Interview:
Reason: Do you think Islam could bring about similar social and political changes?
Hirsi Ali: Only if Islam is defeated. Because right now, the political side of Islam, the power-hungry expansionist side of Islam, has become superior to the Sufis and the Ismailis and the peace-seeking Muslims.
Reason: Don’t you mean defeating radical Islam?
Hirsi Ali: No. Islam, period. Once it’s defeated, it can mutate into something peaceful. It’s very difficult to even talk about peace now. They’re not interested in peace.
Reason: We have to crush the world’s 1.5 billion Muslims under our boot? In concrete terms, what does that mean, “defeat Islam”?
Hirsi Ali: I think that we are at war with Islam. And there’s no middle ground in wars. (emphasis added.)
No, her life story is not a lie. Drop the Al-taqiyya.maybe there is compelling stories, but her life story was a lie.....so...........
other groups who murder Gays? Murder women who commit adultery? Saying other groups are just as ignorant of human rights as Muslims isn't much of an endorsement.no there are some Muslims who do that.......but here is the thing....that is true of other groups as well.
Please re-read the sentence. It is very straightforward.??????????? So you would say that I have a right to be there?
Did you notice in your "reply" above..
You put up one sentence/phrase in EMPTY denial for every FOUR I put up with MEAT Backing what I said.
Nonsensical and goofy use/Abuse of the multiquote.
I backed what I said with facts...
You said NOTHING but "No".
Your posts a total and intellectually bankrupt Washout.
All points With Backing I made within, you Just had one-line "no".
It's Juvenile FRAUD and not coherent or literate either.
Duh Yeah, I know.
A Militia in Africa: which is NOT Comparable, AGAIN, the WORLDWIDE daily, Persecution, Cleansing, and Killing of non-Muslims minorities and neighbors by Mainstream Muslims and their Governments.
Christians have been, and are being cleansed from many Muslim countries, especially Arab ones.
(Sudan, Indonesia, Nigeria, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Pakistan, Philippines, etc, etc)
Apostates, Adulterers, and Islam critics too are persecuted, cleansed, Killed. Legally. (not counted below)
Oh yes, the toll:
List of attacks committed ONLY in the Name of Islam (vs non-Muslims or Muslims of other sects. Not random crime)
Last 30 days Only
I count something like 150-200 attacks in 15-20 Countries. Maybe 2000 dead, just another Month.
Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time
when you go to hate sites like this to get your "facts" no wonder you like this woman.
Sorry, Captain Courtesy, but when billions of people gather together and call themselves Communists we are obliged to call them Communists by their definition, not yours. The same is true of Socialists and Fascists. They were referred to everywhere as "The Communist World" and anyone who was critical, such as Ronald Reagan, was called 'extreme right wing.
Leftists are always trying to rewrite history but it's a little too early in the case of Communism. Wait a generation or two and then you might get away with calling Fascist and National Socialists 'right wing' but the memory of Communism is still too fresh in everyone's minds.
Again, You seem unclear on Mussolini's past otr the definition of Fascism itself.
So they did not call themselves Democrats but instead were the conservative party? The problem with you renaming these political movements to suit your own definitions is that history inevitably becomes distorted, and untrue. You might want to call them 'conservative Democrats' but to ignore their political party is to ignore history.
Yes, maybe I will. But if you want to see the left lie, turn history on its head and silence others, it inevitably comes from the left.
Here's an interesting article. I don't expect you to read it but there might be many independents who might give it a go. The "Safe Space" is Where Cultures Go to Die :: SteynOnline
Right. You never read it.
I have been talking of how speech and diversity of opinion are important in any institute of learning. Please use the quote system..
Leftist analogies never really work. You should avoid them altogether.
So you remain unaware that the University was pressured from CAIR and other Muslim groups?
She will never be invited to another American University. Pressure from Islamic groups have again won the day and they will continue to do so.
I believe Sangha is correct. Perhaps you should take it up with him.
This topic is extremely frustrating because I find there is so much disingenuousness on the subject because it makes people uncomfortable.
.
Conservatives always ignore analogies that show them to not know what they are talking about. It's called denial.
You really shouldn't speak in absolutes. .
I don't know if it is really disingenuosness so much as it is utter dogmatism and lack of intelligence. People assume it is their duty to defend Islamists because they equate such defense with a virtue associated with and misapplied by their chosen ideology -- that of defending people against bigotry. In addition, they see it as "liberal" (their tribe) to defend Islamists no matter what, as all they know is that an enemy of their enemy is their friend. The right in a general sense is their enemy and so if the right is outspoken in regards to Islamists, by golly, they will then defend them. It is all pretty stupid and conformist, but few people ever think in any sort of original way,as they go about their business of adding their voice to the choir.
Having various self-described liberals routinely defend the very least liberal political/religious philosophies on the face of the Earth is Orwellian enough.To have them so motivatedin their zeal for political correctness that they would savage a women of color who has been victimized by the oppression of such ideology is well beyond the pale.
Sometimes I think the world has gone mad so often do I see this same pattern.
what are you suggesting is being defended. Ali is a liar who had to resign from Parliament because of it. She makes blanket statements about Islam that are untrue and does nothing to stop the horrors she only seems to notice is the Muslim world, all the while getting paid large sums of money to spread her lies and hate. Yes she is under the gun as Theo Van Gogh was and that is horrible and anyone caught threatening her should go to prison or worse. But the bottom line is she, like so many others, are simply spread hate for Islam and not fighting the bigger issue that exists in the world. Again female genital mutilation and forcing women to submit are not simply Islamic practices and predate Islam.
Posted before I finished. There are Christian militia in Africa killing people for simply not being Christian......those are ignored.
Bombings are common...so what are you talking about?
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