Had the video not been posted up, it should have been handled by their next-ranking commanding officer. "Knock it off!!"
I think they are ****ed. The last thing you want to do in country, is attract this sort of attention. They are going to get it alot worse than they deserve, imo, and that's regrettable. They did an immature thing, and it will cost them for the rest of thier lives.
I think they are ****ed. The last thing you want to do in country, is attract this sort of attention. They are going to get it alot worse than they deserve, imo, and that's regrettable. They did an immature thing, and it will cost them for the rest of thier lives.
I suspect you are correct in that. This was the stupid action of some immature persons who allowed the wrong things to determine their actions.
I also suspect you are correct that they will get worse than they deserve. Our military is in a delicate situation in these foreign nations and the last thing we want to do is anger the general populace so that it becomes a payback type of situation and this sort of nonsense escalates. That will only hurt Americans in the military and that is something no American wants.
So these kids will pay a price - and perhaps that price will be a high one and we can then have a thread which debates that down the road.
well we aren't a plant or a mineral so i guess there is only one other catagory.Because even in the midst of slaughter and chaos and the fog of war, there are rules -- or else, we're no better than animals.
When I got home yesterday and saw hillary on the news bashing these guys I blew a fuse. She has no idea what they have been through, if she did she would have defended them not threatened them. THIS is a perfect example of why this current administration must be swept out of power and cast off into the trash heap of history. Four more years of these clowns and we are doomed.
are you really that stupid? (rhetorical) not wetting myself and wringing my hands over it =/= approval. but, hey, thanks for playing
This is the exact type of language we would always be lectured on when entering a foreign country/theater of operations.
Were you the one who was just complaining that atrocities are being covered up?
1. Extremely evil or cruel; monstrous: an atrocious crime.
2. Exceptionally bad; abominable: atrocious decor; atrocious behavior.
Stop spewing.
Look, people, all the ridiculous, desperate rationalizations only make you look even more pathetic. Peeing on the dead is wrong. Period. It's dishonorable. We're Americans and we're supposed to be the good guys. Evil acts don't excuse our evil acts. Basic adult morality. Just say so and move on.
Moderator's Warning: |
Meh, I have family members/friends who 'saw war' and in past discussions about similar situations, some agreed with your side and some agreed with the other. The argument "you just don't understand" doesn't hold much water because it's rarely the case that those who do 'understand' have the exact same opinion.not all veterans have actually seen war. :shrug:
I forget, did you serve? This is the exact type of language we would always be lectured on when entering a foreign country/theater of operations.
This is why Hiliary spoke out for our military. Anyone that defends pissing on the Generals missions, billions in tax payer revenues, dead bodies is really is clueless imo ... not only did those marines on tax payer revenue disobey and disrespect that General Petreaus and and McChrystal took as a very serious mission to win the hearts and minds for strategic reasons ... spending billions of American dollars ... these idiots in a few split seconds disobey orders and the mission with dangerous actions.
They endanger our troops, pissed away the billions spent of our money, disobey the orders to win over the counter insurgency ... and create more distrust and help us to lose ground.
It reinforces terrorists and helps recruit terrorists.
It is wrong ... if the men lying dead were enemies and had to be killed in defense that is one issue ... to goad and take the lower ground we claim to be fighting against is immoral and illogical and a dangerous game.
1- have no wars
2- if we do have them, its the last possible resort that is absolutely necessary - WW2 for example
3- fight like hell and do what you have to do to win as fast as possible and bring as many of our own home safe and sound as is possible
4- conduct yourselves honorably and according to the rules you adopt for yourself
No sir. I did not serve in the military.
My goal in all of this is a pretty simple one:
1- have no wars
2- if we do have them, its the last possible resort that is absolutely necessary - WW2 for example
3- fight like hell and do what you have to do to win as fast as possible and bring as many of our own home safe and sound as is possible
4- conduct yourselves honorably and according to the rules you adopt for yourself
thats about it Rev.
One other thing....... my heart does go out to these kids --- and being 62 years of age - that is what they are to me. I take my hat off to them and salute them for serving their country. That is more than I ever did. But they did break our own rules and now have put the safety and lives of other Americans in harms way as a result of their youthful indiscretion. And they will pay a price for it. I hope it is a price they can pay and move on to better things in their lives.
On a very personal note: I remember when I was 16 years old and had my first car I did something really stupid that could have ruined my life. At somebodys house, in a party type situation, I was pulling away from the front of the house when another kid spread eagled himself upon the hood of my 56 Chevy. I revved the engine, slipped it into drive and shot the car forward a few feet and then slammed on the brakes. He flew off like a leaf in a stiff October wind. He got some scrapes from the cement but nothing was broken and very little harm was done. Every once in a while I think about that. What if that young man had smashed his skull and died? My life would have been very very different.
Lets investigate this properly. Lets handle it properly according to our own rules. And lets hope these young Americans can serve their sentence and move on with their lives as best as possible.
Number 4 contradicts number 3. Or at least holds the potential for contradiction.
Number 4 contradicts number 3. Or at least holds the potential for contradiction.
I agree with this 100%. There is a code of honor, I've refused orders twice, and in the service, you better be damn right if you refuse an order. cause if it's not an illegal order, you're ****ed. I'm proud of how I maintained my civility in such an uncivil world., I also, though have compassion for those who may have failed. These kids, did a dumb immature thing. If it wasn't picked up by the media, they would have gotten what usually happens, Now I am afraid, it will be much worse for them.
Yes it does. I cannot argue with that.
I am of two minds on this and am truly split. When I look at terrible acts of all our war - Shermans march to the sea or the dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan - I wish neither had happened. But part of me says that maybe an all out effort like that helped end the war and prevented even more death and suffering. I don't know but I wonder.
But was the acts dishonroable? WW2 as you say was a just war, we razed entire cities with air raids as did our enemies. I like to believe we evolved some, but at the same time, one has to look at war in it's historical context.
Well the technology has allowed us to fight more "civilized", so to say. Although purposeful atrocities occurred in WW2, they didn't have the precision-guided munitions we have now. So of course collateral damage and death was expected, as you know.But was the acts dishonroable? WW2 as you say was a just war, we razed entire cities with air raids as did our enemies. I like to believe we evolved some, but at the same time, one has to look at war in it's historical context.
Good question Rev.
I don't know the answer despite long hours spent on the topic. My dad was a WW2 soldier who spent parts of two years in a German prison camp including one run by the Gestapo. I think about guys like him and how the Japanese died on those islands in 44 and 45 when the end was obviously in sight. We had the war department studies that if they fought the same way on the mainland, it could take a million US lives to take the island. In hindsight, that was probably an overestimation but even if was fudged by a factor of triple - that is till 333,000 dead Americans. That is 333,000 dead kids just like my dad. So we did what we did and it ended it.
But I have been to Hiroshima and spent time in the Peace Park and it is a sobering and sad thing to do. I have read about the victims - almost all civilians and disproportionately women and children and do not feel any pride about our victory at that cost.
But I do not condemn what we did and do not judge what we did.
I agree with this 100%. There is a code of honor, I've refused orders twice, and in the service, you better be damn right if you refuse an order. cause if it's not an illegal order, you're ****ed. I'm proud of how I maintained my civility in such an uncivil world., I also, though have compassion for those who may have failed. These kids, did a dumb immature thing. If it wasn't picked up by the media, they would have gotten what usually happens, Now I am afraid, it will be much worse for them.
Depends on where in the chain of command (see below) you are in the US military. . .
Oil companies/DoD Contractors/Hedge funds -> CINC -> SECDEF -> UCC Commanders -> Generals -> ...
The group to the left in orange is allowed to freely give out illegal orders, and almost always does, and in most cases, those below the orange line are expected to follow the illegal orders or else be court martialed.
However, if any member of the orange group gives out an illegal order, but doesn't want that illegal order to be traced to him/her, he/she can refuse to acknowledge it, and just punish subordinate members for following it, should a controversy over the order erupt.
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