There is a difference between taking it to the enemy and literally pissing on them. The act these Marines committed has nothing to do with being tough on the enemy. Yes war is immoral, innocent people will inevitably die, tragedy will happen, children will be killed as you point out. However there is a difference between leveling a house a terrorist is shooting at you from, and killing a child inside that building, and pissing on the bodies of the dead. Defeating the enemy is part of the mission, pissing on their bodies does not help that mission. Part of the mission is convincing the citizens of that country not to take up arms against us, pissing on them is not part of it. If you destroy a building and inadvertently kill a child, you didn't destroy the building to kill the child you did it to defeat the enemy inside, to save the lives of your comrades who were under fire. What does pissing on a body accomplish? It has no positive affect on you, only negative consequences can follow. THAT is the critical difference you need to realize.
I think I'm more bothered by the fact that they cut the heads off our dead soldiers... and the occasional live one... then drag their bodies naked through the streets or hang them from an overpass. I think the soldiers' families would agree with me. Don't manufacture outrage about something that adolescent males have been doing to other adolescent males since frat houses were invented.
High praise that - The US is no worse than the Taliban! Can I get an Amen!
When I got home yesterday and saw hillary on the news bashing these guys I blew a fuse. She has no idea what they have been through, if she did she would have defended them not threatened them. THIS is a perfect example of why this current administration must be swept out of power and cast off into the trash heap of history. Four more years of these clowns and we are doomed.
wow.....
do officers really believe that?
no wonder you people get no respect when you're young....
I would recommend to you On Killing as a start-point for this discussion. Grunts need to be able to convince themselves of a couple of key points: 1. the people they are killing aren't really people and 2. they are far superior to them in aggression, strength, ability, aggression, deadliness, aggression, etc. Our problem was the li'l bastards kept grabbing their wounded and dead before we could get to them - the first time we overwhelmed their position fast enough that we got to keep the bodies, our gunny strapped them to the front of one of the gun truck like deer and rode around the fob straddling them and whooping warcries. The ingrained moral is obvious, looking back - killing the enemy is a good thing and worthy of celebration.
(everyone getting hyperventilating moral fits about that last bit is free to hit the yellow footprints on an infantry contract.)
now - agreed this is an IO loss, and potentially a strategic level hit. that's why you never video or photo this kind of stuff. stupid. and so obviously these guys have to go down. but let's not wrap ourselves up in sanctimony here.
I'm curious your views on these arguments then.
When Abu Ghrab instance took place soldiers saw a spike in violence and the military believes it was in response to the incidents and images that came from there.
The other is we are the for a counter insurgency which means winning over the people. Desecrating a body a huge deal in that culture. It's hard to win over "hearts and minds" when stuff like this comes out. Everyday soldiers are nice to these people...but an image of someone urinating on dead bodies can be shown everywhere 24/7. It undoes a lot of hard work.
We are not there to win over people, we are there so those people can make their own choices, supposedly.
When I got home yesterday and saw hillary on the news bashing these guys I blew a fuse. She has no idea what they have been through, if she did she would have defended them not threatened them.
The Marine Corps’ top general has condemned a web video appearing to show Marines in Afghanistan urinating on dead Taliban fighters, and called for criminal and internal probes into what has quickly mushroomed into an international incident that threatens to undermine the U.S war effort.
“The behavior depicted in the video is wholly inconsistent with the high standards of conduct and warrior ethos that we have demonstrated throughout our history,” Gen. Jim Amos, the Marine Corps commandant, said in a statement issued Thursday morning. “Accordingly, late yesterday I requested that the Naval Criminal Investigative Service pull together a team of their very best agents and immediately assign them responsibility to thoroughly investigate every aspect of the filmed event.”What they did was not defensible.
Funny, that is what I said and you redifine me as not saying it. thanks.
We are not there to win over people, we are there so those people can make their own choices, supposedly. But with Hillary and those ideologues governing reality the way they do, this is pure inflamatory propaganda to get the leaders of each side back in control of their sides.
I didn't redefine anything. I said what I said, and if it agrees with what you said, consider it my attempt to restate it so others may understand better.
Oh, your way or the highway. again thanks.
Now redefine mind over matter so everyone has a better idea of what that meant in real results over reality's defining of character matters, please?
What the hell are you talking about? Is your blood sugar dropping or something? Seriously, your comments don't follow.
Officials in the United States and Afghanistan expressed shock and outrage regarding the video."I have seen the footage, and I find the behavior depicted in it utterly deplorable," U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said in a statement. "I condemn it in the strongest possible terms."
All those arguements does not hold any water. Put yourselves in their shoes - the Taliban urinating on the dead bodies of american soldiers.
Two Marines in urination video interviewed
See more and video @: U.S. Marines Urinate On Dead Bodies In Afghanistan (GRAPHIC VIDEO)Well this certainly will not help our cause. These soldiers need to be brought to justice ASAP. This makes my stomach just numb...
Thoughts?
Comments?
Response?
All those arguements does not hold any water. Put yourselves in their shoes - the Taliban urinating on the dead bodies of american soldiers.
Two Marines in urination video interviewed
I would venture to guess that very few people would be outraged at the "desecration" of American soldiers in this way. Please notice any Google search asking for "Afghanistan atrocities," as an example. Nothing comes up about our enemies. Scores come up about our troops. Don't think there are any by the other side? I've got this bridge...
Where is the media? Oh, wait. We don't want to turn this into an more unpopular war, do we??
A new study from the University of Nebraska-Lincoln suggests there are biological truths to such broad brushstrokes.
In a series of experiments, researchers closely monitored physiological reactions and eye movements of study participants when shown combinations of both pleasant and unpleasant images. Conservatives reacted more strongly to, fixated more quickly on, and looked longer at the unpleasant images; liberals had stronger reactions to and looked longer at the pleasant images compared with conservatives.
"It's been said that conservatives and liberals don't see things in the same way," said Mike Dodd, UNL assistant professor of psychology and the study's lead author. "These findings make that clear – quite literally."
To gauge participants' physiological responses, they were shown a series of images on a screen. Electrodes measured subtle skin conductance changes, which indicated an emotional response. The cognitive data, meanwhile, was gathered by outfitting participants with eyetracking equipment that captured even the most subtle of eye movements while combinations of unpleasant and pleasant photos appeared on the screen.
While liberals' gazes tended to fall upon the pleasant images, such as a beach ball or a bunny rabbit, conservatives clearly focused on the negative images – of an open wound, a crashed car or a dirty toilet, for example.
Consistent with the idea that conservatives seem to respond more to negative stimuli while liberals respond more to positive stimuli, conservatives also exhibited a stronger physiological response to images of Democratic politicians – presumed to be a negative to them – than they did on pictures of well-known Republicans. Liberals, on the other hand, had a stronger physiological response to the Democrats – presumed to be a positive stimulus to them – than they did to images of the Republicans.
I would venture to guess that very few people would be outraged at the "desecration" of American soldiers in this way. Please notice any Google search asking for "Afghanistan atrocities," as an example. Nothing comes up about our enemies.
I would venture to guess that very few people would be outraged at the "desecration" of American soldiers in this way.
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