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Liberal bull****.
No man shall live in threat of his life for declaring that which be believes. The only exceptions are the inevitable shouting fire in a theatre.
FFS you people love to see Jesus depicted as a clown, gay, laughing on the cross, and Christians don't blow **** up, and if they did, you would have them hunted and killed. FFS, a girl in Indiana speculates about a pizza catered gay wedding and draws death threats, and not one liberal, from the President to whatever worm is running for the job had not one comment. They tacitly approved those death threats.
Now, here you are tacitly approving and excusing mob violence to silence free speech.
What we all love about "progressive" ethics is that they are as flexible as a snake
However, some people have at least implied that a violent reaction should have been almost expected.
Yep, and being Gay and a non-believer is a provocation to these people too.
People need to stop being Gay and Christian because if Islamist kill them then its kind of their fault.
The issue here is simple. This event was designed to get a reaction from the "enemy", either in the US (preferably I bet) or abroad some where. It was the whole goal of the organizers to provoke and they are hiding behind this so called free speech.... free speech they want to deny Muslims.. oddly enough.
Now they got the reaction exactly as they had hoped, so they can now use this attack in their hate filled ignorant jihad/crusade against Islam and in turn the radicals in Islam will use this event and attack to bolster their radical ideas within Islam by claiming "look the Christians are attacking us" bull****. This is never ending crap and it has to stop.
Religious wars are dangerous as hell.. ask the French about their religious wars that cost them up to 25% of their population (some say up to 40%) because of Christians fighting it out over who loves Jesus more. Or the English religious wars that burnt Christians at the stake because they believed in a different idea of Christianity.. Or Christian slaughter of Jerusalem in 1099. The list of wars and atrocities done in the name of religion go on and on, and this event was just another skirmish in a new war between radical Christians and Muslims... and it has to freaking stop.
maybe I figured he was talking about this story
Pretty sure you shouldn't be harmed walking through Compton shouting the N word either.
I just think it's a shame people have to stoop that low to get their opinion heard, I also think its a shame for the Police officers and all other local security forces that are put in danger due to events like these.
It's more like blaming the rape victim because she wore a short skirt.
Pretty sure I should be free from getting mugged or shot because I have $100 in my pocket, too. What's your point?
Nope he's just talking about the morons on this site.
You've got a very different situation on your hands which needs a lot of careful handling. For good or for bad, America has welcomed Muslims as citizens of their country. We have done the same in the UK. Muslims come from very different cultural backgrounds to ours. In many of their countries of origin, it is more likely that they deal with actions which dishonour them and their brethren with violence - anything less is considered weakness.When you capitulate, or become cowed as a society because you fear irrational Muslims overreacting to something as harmless as a cartoon with deadly violence...you've lost not only your balls but your soul as well.
You can't let a bunch of immigrants come in and push you around. This is Texas, we have freedom of speech and hold it very dear here. Outsiders are welcome, but if you're so offended by someone else's speech that you think violent outrage is the correct response, you need to get your ass out of my state and back to whatever sand dune you came from.
We're not moving one inch, or giving up one iota of our freedom for these pretenders.
You've got a very different situation on your hands which needs a lot of careful handling. For good or for bad, America has welcomed Muslims as citizens of their country. We have done the same in the UK. Muslims come from very different cultural backgrounds to ours. In many of their countries of origin, it is more likely that they deal with actions which dishonour them and their brethren with violence - anything less is considered weakness.
We have the right to expect some sort of openness to Western culture from Muslims who settle here, such openness does not always exist. If it's not there, then integration will never happen and it's best for all concerned if they are helped to go to a country they like. However, if there is some openness to integration, it will be fragile and the actual process of integration will be painful, slow and not necessarily successful. Many Muslims have a backstory of bitterness towards Western nations such as the UK and the US who have killed so many of their fellow Muslims over the years. As we know, their religion is also fervent. Integration of large numbers of Muslims into Western countries is probably one of the most ambitious programmes ever attempted in social history, and to be honest, it's not going very well, probably because we had no idea what we were getting involved in.
So, having taken the decision to welcome people into our nations as fellow citizens, who have such incredibly different values to ours, we have some onus to show them respect for their personal beliefs (like we do for different Christian groups). We owe this to ourselves and to them if we want to make our society work. If we say, these are our values - shape up or ship out, and by the way we support people who ridicule your values, it's just not going to work. Given that we are willing to make an effort to respect difference in so many areas of our lives, is it really so hard for our societies to agree not to ridicule the dearest tenets of their religion? Is that such a big sacrifice? Do we have to stand on principle and say it's my right to mock your religion - this is what America / UK etc is about? Can we not take issue with Islam and its problems in a civilised way?
You've got a very different situation on your hands which needs a lot of careful handling. For good or for bad, America has welcomed Muslims as citizens of their country. We have done the same in the UK. Muslims come from very different cultural backgrounds to ours. In many of their countries of origin, it is more likely that they deal with actions which dishonour them and their brethren with violence - anything less is considered weakness.
We have the right to expect some sort of openness to Western culture from Muslims who settle here, such openness does not always exist. If it's not there, then integration will never happen and it's best for all concerned if they are helped to go to a country they like. However, if there is some openness to integration, it will be fragile and the actual process of integration will be painful, slow and not necessarily successful. Many Muslims have a backstory of bitterness towards Western nations such as the UK and the US who have killed so many of their fellow Muslims over the years. As we know, their religion is also fervent. Integration of large numbers of Muslims into Western countries is probably one of the most ambitious programmes ever attempted in social history, and to be honest, it's not going very well, probably because we had no idea what we were getting involved in.
So, having taken the decision to welcome people into our nations as fellow citizens, who have such incredibly different values to ours, we have some onus to show them respect for their personal beliefs (like we do for different Christian groups). We owe this to ourselves and to them if we want to make our society work. If we say, these are our values - shape up or ship out, and by the way we support people who ridicule your values, it's just not going to work. Given that we are willing to make an effort to respect difference in so many areas of our lives, is it really so hard for our societies to agree not to ridicule the dearest tenets of their religion? Is that such a big sacrifice? Do we have to stand on principle and say it's my right to mock your religion - this is what America / UK etc is about? Can we not take issue with Islam and its problems in a civilised way?
Moderator's Warning: |
You've got a very different situation on your hands which needs a lot of careful handling. For good or for bad, America has welcomed Muslims as citizens of their country. We have done the same in the UK. Muslims come from very different cultural backgrounds to ours. In many of their countries of origin, it is more likely that they deal with actions which dishonour them and their brethren with violence - anything less is considered weakness.
We have the right to expect some sort of openness to Western culture from Muslims who settle here, such openness does not always exist. If it's not there, then integration will never happen and it's best for all concerned if they are helped to go to a country they like. However, if there is some openness to integration, it will be fragile and the actual process of integration will be painful, slow and not necessarily successful. Many Muslims have a backstory of bitterness towards Western nations such as the UK and the US who have killed so many of their fellow Muslims over the years. As we know, their religion is also fervent. Integration of large numbers of Muslims into Western countries is probably one of the most ambitious programmes ever attempted in social history, and to be honest, it's not going very well, probably because we had no idea what we were getting involved in.
So, having taken the decision to welcome people into our nations as fellow citizens, who have such incredibly different values to ours, we have some onus to show them respect for their personal beliefs (like we do for different Christian groups). We owe this to ourselves and to them if we want to make our society work. If we say, these are our values - shape up or ship out, and by the way we support people who ridicule your values, it's just not going to work. Given that we are willing to make an effort to respect difference in so many areas of our lives, is it really so hard for our societies to agree not to ridicule the dearest tenets of their religion? Is that such a big sacrifice? Do we have to stand on principle and say it's my right to mock your religion - this is what America / UK etc is about? Can we not take issue with Islam and its problems in a civilised way?
Considering that this so called voicing of an opinion was designed to create a reaction somewhere... then this is no different than the actual act committed. It is like shouting fire in a crowded theatre and people getting trampled to death.. you are still responsible for the trampling even though you have your "free speech" to shout fire.
You've got a very different situation on your hands which needs a lot of careful handling. For good or for bad, America has welcomed Muslims as citizens of their country. We have done the same in the UK. Muslims come from very different cultural backgrounds to ours. In many of their countries of origin, it is more likely that they deal with actions which dishonour them and their brethren with violence - anything less is considered weakness.
We have the right to expect some sort of openness to Western culture from Muslims who settle here, such openness does not always exist. If it's not there, then integration will never happen and it's best for all concerned if they are helped to go to a country they like. However, if there is some openness to integration, it will be fragile and the actual process of integration will be painful, slow and not necessarily successful. Many Muslims have a backstory of bitterness towards Western nations such as the UK and the US who have killed so many of their fellow Muslims over the years. As we know, their religion is also fervent. Integration of large numbers of Muslims into Western countries is probably one of the most ambitious programmes ever attempted in social history, and to be honest, it's not going very well, probably because we had no idea what we were getting involved in.
So, having taken the decision to welcome people into our nations as fellow citizens, who have such incredibly different values to ours, we have some onus to show them respect for their personal beliefs (like we do for different Christian groups). We owe this to ourselves and to them if we want to make our society work. If we say, these are our values - shape up or ship out, and by the way we support people who ridicule your values, it's just not going to work. Given that we are willing to make an effort to respect difference in so many areas of our lives, is it really so hard for our societies to agree not to ridicule the dearest tenets of their religion? Is that such a big sacrifice? Do we have to stand on principle and say it's my right to mock your religion - this is what America / UK etc is about? Can we not take issue with Islam and its problems in a civilised way?
hosting a "lets draw the prophet" party is right up there with sticking a fork into a live toaster.
The fact that you feel a group of people getting together to draw pictures of a religious figure is similar to sticking a metal object into a toaster in terms of risk, potential for harm, and danger to me speaks FAR MORE about those reacting to the event then it tells me about the people doing it.
I'd think the fact that there's seemingly a large enough contingent of a particular religion that is so extremist in nature that drawing a religious figure is equivelent in danger to jabbing metal into electrical objects is mindbogglingly problematic.
It is problematic and until we can get on top of this home grown Islamic extremism events like these will continue to be dangerous to those participating and those forced to protect the participants.
Kyle: That's because there is no goo, Mr. Cruise. You see, I learned something today. Throughout this whole ordeal, we've all wanted to show things that we weren't allowed to show, but it wasn't because of some magic goo. It was because of the magical power of threatening people with violence. That's obviously the only true power. If there's anything we've all learned, it's that terrorizing people works.
Jesus: That's right. Don't you see, gingers, if you don't want to be made fun of anymore, all you need are guns and bombs to get people to stop.
Santa: That's right, friends. All you need to do is instill fear and be willing to hurt people and you can get whatever you want. The only true power is violence.
Indeed they will.
And being a female out at 1:30 AM, tipsy and alone, walking through somewhat dark streets to the local metro station is also sadly a potential dangerous situation compared to most...and yet we wouldn't, and don't, suggest females should stop going out to Bars or blame them if a guy takes advantage of such a situation to rape her.
Do I like the event they held? No. Do I think it was childish and juvenile, meant far more to be provocative and trollish than any legitimate desire to care about "free speech"? Yes. But does that mean they SHOULDN'T have done their event? No. People shouldn't stop attempting to express themeslves...no matter how stupid it may be..simply because a group MIGHT do something violent to them, because all thta does is encourage other groups to take up a similar tactic because it shows that IT WORKS.
|Points taken but the historic approach won't work with many Muslims, for the reasons I set out in my post. We are talking about a group of people with huge obstacles to integration. No doubt, this problem was not anticipated in the US - it certainly wasn't in the UK.America has hundreds of years of experience when it comes to mass immigration. Our country is primarily made up of immigrants with all different backgrounds and stories.
The way it has worked best in the past, and the way it will work this time, is that the immigrants are the ones who need to conform to our values and beliefs, not the other way around. You're welcome to come to the land of opportunity and you're free to pursue the best life for yourself, but don't expect anyone else to learn about your culture or capitulate to you. You're in Anerica, start acting like an American.
This formula has worked for generations, no reason to deviate from it now.
Freedom of speech is not something we're going to willingly give up, especially to assuage a group of radicals who generally are distrusted to begin with.
They're gonna have to learn to hack it just like every other generation of immigrants before them. And in the Wild West, if you come on with your guns drawn, the lawmen might just shoot you down. Lesson learned and score 1 for the good guys.
I think what we are seeing is unprecedented and security agencies from France, UK, US, Germany etc are saying that it is almost impossible to track all these "bedroom fanatic's". We have seen one of the world's biggest marathons attacked in broad daylight, over a thousand Muslims leave Europe to join ISIS in Syria, a British soldier beheaded in the street, a French Newspaper attacked by trained armed men etc and all in the last 2 years.
Again for me until we can get to grips with it I think these kind of events are just simply too dangerous and reckless, plus it's not like they haven't stepped in before to stop these kind of things that Florida pastor rings a bell.
The elephant in the room is our military interventions in the Middle East. We've never apologised for them properly or tried to make amends. Then idiots pile in with their childish expressions of freedom of speech against Islam and the whole thing becomes a powder keg.I think what we are seeing is unprecedented and security agencies from France, UK, US, Germany etc are saying that it is almost impossible to track all these "bedroom fanatic's". We have seen one of the world's biggest marathons attacked in broad daylight, over a thousand Muslims leave Europe to join ISIS in Syria, a British soldier beheaded in the street, a French Newspaper attacked by trained armed men etc and all in the last 2 years.
Again for me until we can get to grips with it I think these kind of events are just simply too dangerous and reckless, plus it's not like they haven't stepped in before to stop these kind of things that Florida pastor rings a bell.
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