Anti-hunting activists have secured at least 23% of the 172 permits issued or about 40 permits (possibly could be higher) for the Florida bear hunt

[Bodi]

we're talking about several things - harvesting bears in Florida and hunting being a valuable part of conservation and then people attacked hunters and how they go about killing animals and processing the meat for themselves/family ...

I think its VERY relevant how you get your meat, how its killed and processed

you don't want to discuss it because it shows you're a hypocrite - we all know it

I was talking about the unfairness of hunting with guns. Not Food Distribution. That is YOUR Straw Man.

All this illustrates is your lack of Reading Comprehension and EVERYBODY can see it.


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[Bodi]

key word search - "protecting the natural" was only mentioned once in this thread - by you

try againe

Nope. It was the by-guy...

why ? who gave you the authority to decide what a "real hunter" is ?

Me... and it is non-disputable. A real hunter doesn't ambush from far away... the real hunter respects their opponent and gives it a fair fight.

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[Bodi]

and you know they never hunted because they enjoyed the sport? you're certain of that ?

You are saying that Native Americans were wasteful?

and that's wrong in your opinion ?

I never said it was wrong. I said that it is not what real hunters do. Real hunters use a knife when they attack an opponent.

where its ok to have a farm take a young bull, castrate it, feed it steroids, keep it in a cattle yard tramping around and mud and piss and crap for weeks and months just eating GMO corn with thousands of other cows side by side .... then it gets killed while in line with all the other cattle getting a bullet or bolt to the head as all of them bawl during the chaos .... then the meat? wanna talk about how the meat is processed ?

Straw Man. That has nothing to do with my argument. You CHOSE to engage in my argument and all you are doing is trying to tangent away from it... because you have no real counter argument. *shrug*

who's fake here and who isn't ?

Not sure... but it is clear who knows what a Logical Fallacy is and who doesn't.



.

 

[Bodi]

We don't have bear on LI but I've seen an extraordinary number of whitetails in my neighborhood. Just last week one walked across a busy 4 lane road - full of fast food joints and strip malls in the middle of the afternoon. He seemed headed to McDonald's. A couple of mornings ago I saw one talking a leisurely stroll down a street at 7am and last night two were rummaging around a neighbor's lawn.


I've probably seen 20-30 deer since late summer - that's more than the last total for the last 5 years.

Something's up.

That is how 28 Years Later starts... are you suggesting what I think you are suggesting?



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[hecatmoggie]

See? You didnt even have the answers to my questions, which would then tell us if the current numbers were "objectively" good.

everyone has a different opinion - people who don't care about elk/moose/deer etc don't care about the wolves and the impact they had

The population has stabilized at 7-8000. Huh...is there something wrong with that #? Was predator/prey balance achieved?

way less than before the wolves - the impact was that great which was my point all along

You know that hunting (by people) isnt allowed inside the park, right? So why are "pro-elkers" upset?

duh

did you know wolves don't obey boundaries ? they breed, and spread outside the park, impacting big game animals all over

Since the reintroduction began in 1995 (not 1994), wolves have successfully spread throughout the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem and beyond, contributing to a total population of over 3,000 wolves across the Western United States. The primary areas of expansion are:

• Wyoming: Wolves have expanded from the park into the rest of Wyoming, particularly the western portions, where approximately 311 wolves were counted as of March 2023.
• Idaho: A large population has been established in central Idaho, with the statewide count at approximately 1,337 wolves in March 2023.
• Montana: Wolves dispersed into Montana, particularly the northwest and western regions, which had around 1,100 wolves as of March 2023.
• Oregon and Washington: Through natural dispersal from the Northern Rockies, wolves have established populations in eastern Oregon and eastern Washington. As of March 2023, these states had 175 and 206 wolves, respectively.

 

[hecatmoggie]

Nope. It was the by-guy...

it wasn't anyone but you - key word search it

Me... and it is non-disputable. A real hunter doesn't ambush from far away... the real hunter respects their opponent and gives it a fair fight.

like you do in the super market when you buy your food ?

you are just trolling now -

 

[hecatmoggie]

You are saying that Native Americans were wasteful?

I never said that

I never said it was wrong. I said that it is not what real hunters do. Real hunters use a knife when they attack an opponent.

Native Americans were not real hunters then

Straw Man. That has nothing to do with my argument. You CHOSE to engage in my argument and all you are doing is trying to tangent away from it... because you have no real counter argument. *shrug*

we all know the answer - you're just afraid to talk about it. Its ok, not answering is an answer

Not sure... but it is clear who knows what a Logical Fallacy is and who doesn't..

and who's trolling and who's having an honest discussion

 

[Lursa]

everyone has a different opinion - people who don't care about elk/moose/deer etc don't care about the wolves and the impact they had

That's why wildlife management is based on objective goals and habitat and animal conditions.

So why are you back on 'opinions?' "My" goals, and the national park's and wildlife biologists' would be healthy ecosystems and predator/prey balance.

way less than before the wolves

Didnt answer my question: ..."is there something wrong with that #?" Please do.

- the impact was that great which was my point all along

Where is your substantiation for this? Overpopulation by ungulates causes a lot of damage to range, forest, erosion, water quality, etc.

duh

did you know wolves don't obey boundaries ? they breed, and spread outside the park, impacting big game animals all over

Since the reintroduction began in 1995 (not 1994), wolves have successfully spread throughout the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem and beyond, contributing to a total population of over 3,000 wolves across the Western United States. The primary areas of expansion are:

• Wyoming: Wolves have expanded from the park into the rest of Wyoming, particularly the western portions, where approximately 311 wolves were counted as of March 2023.
• Idaho: A large population has been established in central Idaho, with the statewide count at approximately 1,337 wolves in March 2023.
• Montana: Wolves dispersed into Montana, particularly the northwest and western regions, which had around 1,100 wolves as of March 2023.
• Oregon and Washington: Through natural dispersal from the Northern Rockies, wolves have established populations in eastern Oregon and eastern Washington. As of March 2023, these states had 175 and 206 wolves, respectively.

We were discussing the population you brought up...the elk in the Yellowstone northern range. Dont move the goal posts. Now you're complaining about wolf dispersal.

 

[Bodi]

it wasn't anyone but you - key word search it

Wrong again...

Hunting is an efficient and productive way to source calories from the natural environment, rather than clearing the land and replacing it by farms. The more people get food by hunting, the more of the original ecosystem can be preserved. This is especially true when the hunted species, like deer and bear, have become common out of proportion with what the environment can handle.

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like you do in the super market when you buy your food ?

I am tiring of your Straw Man.

you are just trolling now -

Incorrect.


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[Bodi]

I never said that

I was summing it up... you said"

hecatmoggie said:
and you know they never hunted because they enjoyed the sport? you're certain of that ?

Hunting, killing something, is not a sport... at least by people that are not sadistic psychopaths.

Native Americans were not real hunters then

Your logic is horrible.

we all know the answer - you're just afraid to talk about it. Its ok, not answering is an answer

Talk about what? The supermarket? Almost everybody uses a food production service. So what? What in the Holy **** of ****'s does that have to do with Hunters shooting innocent animals from a great distance with high powered rifles for ****'s Sake? LOL

and who's trolling

You.

and who's having an honest discussion

Me


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[hecatmoggie]

That's why wildlife management is based on objective goals and habitat and animal conditions.

wolf reintroduction has nothing to do with wildlife management - its political

So why are you back on 'opinions?' "My" goals, and the national park's and wildlife biologists' would be healthy ecosystems and predator/prey balance.
Didnt answer my question: ..."is there something wrong with that #?" Please do.

there is nothing wrong with 20,000 elk, 8,000 elk or 1,000 elk I don't reckon - kill 'em down to 0 and there is nothing "wrong" with it really

Where is your substantiation for this? Overpopulation by ungulates causes a lot of damage to range, forest, erosion, water quality, etc.

then prove there was overpopulation before wolves were brought in -

We were discussing the population you brought up...the elk in the Yellowstone northern range. Dont move the goal posts. Now you're complaining about wolf dispersal.

its all wrapped together - sportsmen warned from the get go wolves wouldn't stay in the park, breeding pairs would migrate out, they'd kill not only what's in Yellowstone but they'd spread and kill populations of elk, moose, deer etc far and wide

maybe you don't know much about wolves and their impacts

 

[hecatmoggie]

Wrong again...


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the words wasn't used like you quoted them to be


do you feel bad about the way you get your food ?

 

[Lursa]

wolf reintroduction has nothing to do with wildlife management - its political

That's wrong. Off-topic and completely wrong. This tells me you know nothing about predator/prey balance and the health of ecosystems. I no longer consider your unsourced claims valid.

there is nothing wrong with 20,000 elk, 8,000 elk or 1,000 elk I don't reckon - kill 'em down to 0 and there is nothing "wrong" with it really
then prove there was overpopulation before wolves were brought in -

No...you were the one that brought up numbers. You brought it ALL up. And dont appear to understand it at all.

its all wrapped together - sportsmen warned from the get go wolves wouldn't stay in the park, breeding pairs would migrate out, they'd kill not only what's in Yellowstone but they'd spread and kill populations of elk, moose, deer etc far and wide

No it wasnt. You brought up a specific elk population. And now you cannot even tell me if the introduction of wolves accomplished the park's goals of that introduction? Holy shit. You trotted out your agenda and just ran into a brick wall.

maybe you don't know much about wolves and their impacts

You sure havent proven you know anything about it. You cut and pasted a bunch of stuff. Biology...wildlife biology...is an applied science. It's not conducted by rote and must take a huge number of factors into consideration. WTF do you think I had to study statistics?

 

[Bodi]

the words wasn't used like you quoted them to be

They pretty much were...

do you feel bad about the way you get your food ?

Straw Man

do you feel bad about the way you get your food ?

Are you scared to hunt a bear with a knife?

Do you think killing an animal is "sport"?
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[hecatmoggie]

I was summing it up... you said"

don't sum up when you're saying things I didn't say - ask questions

Hunting, killing something, is not a sport... at least by people that are not sadistic psychopaths.

link to that theory please -

Talk about what? The supermarket? Almost everybody uses a food production service. So what? What in the Holy **** of ****'s does that have to do with Hunters shooting innocent animals from a great distance with high powered rifles for ****'s Sake? LOL

we can talk about how I get my food and you call me sadistic and a psychopath .... why don't you want to talk about how you get your food? its a valid comparison

 

[hecatmoggie]

Are you scared to hunt a bear with a knife?

yes

Do you think killing an animal is "sport"?

the Hunt is the sport - not the actual killing


Are you scared to hunt your own food?

 

[Bodi]

don't sum up when you're saying things I didn't say - ask questions

I did. I asked:

You are saying that Native Americans were wasteful?

link to that theory please -

It isn't a theory...

we can talk about how I get my food and you call me sadistic and a psychopath .... why don't you want to talk about how you get your food? its a valid comparison

My argument was not nor is not about how we get our food.

Do you have no idea what a Straw Man is? What about a Red Herring?

Red Herring: This is a diversionary tactic that avoids the key issues, often by avoiding opposing arguments rather than addressing them. Example:

Straw Man: This move oversimplifies an opponent's viewpoint and then attacks that hollow argument.

Fallacies - Purdue OWL® - Purdue University

This resource covers using logic within writing—logical vocabulary, logical fallacies, and other types of logos-based reasoning.

owl.purdue.edu

 

[hecatmoggie]

I did. I asked:

no, I did not say that

It isn't a theory...

oh, then give me facts and links showing its not a sport please

My argument was not nor is not about how we get our food.

it was about how I get food absolutely - you want to judge and name calling - using words like psychopath and sadistic

so why can't we in turn look how you get your food and analyze it? that's VERY fair

 

[Bodi]

no, I did not say that

You told me to ask and I did. That is why I asked you the question. So that you could clarify what you meant.

oh, then give me facts and links showing its not a sport please

That is not how it works...

it was about how I get food absolutely - you want to judge and name calling - using words like psychopath and sadistic

That is a Lie. I never insulted you and I never called you a psychopath or a sadist.

so why can't we in turn look how you get your food and analyze it? that's VERY fair

LOL. This is getting a teeny bit sad.

The argument is about hunting with a knife not about how we get our food.

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[RF667799]

You told me to ask and I did. That is why I asked you the question. So that you could clarify what you meant.



That is not how it works...



That is a Lie. I never insulted you and I never called you a psychopath or a sadist.



LOL. This is getting a teeny bit sad.

The argument is about hunting with a knife not about how we get our food.

.

If your personal hunting ethics include stabbing animals with a knife, then so be it. Though to be accurate, that's the killing part. Killing can be included in hunting but is not the total of hunting.

Anyway, be aware your preferred means of harvest may not be legal.

 

[hecatmoggie]

That is not how it works...

absolutely it is - do you think I can show you where hunting is a sport? trace it back to England? Europe?

That is a Lie. I never insulted you and I never called you a psychopath or a sadist.

who were you talking about then ?

LOL. This is getting a teeny bit sad.
The argument is about hunting with a knife not about how we get our food.

no, YOU injected a knife into the discussion, the real topic was drawing bear tags in Florida and ... lets see, what was your second post ?

If you hunted a bear with a knife I would applaud it... using high-powered rifles though?
Weak . As . Shit .

maybe you don't remember ... but if hunting isn't a sport (with rifle, shotgun, bow etc) then PROVE IT

or admit you're ignorant of the topic and just wanna troll

 

[Bodi]

who were you talking about then ?

First admit that I did not call you Sadistic or Psychopathic.

no, YOU injected a knife into the discussion, the real topic was drawing bear tags in Florida and ... lets see, what was your second post ?

I made an argument about rifle hunting being cowardly and knife hunting being respectful. Nobody forced you to challenge it.

maybe you don't remember ... but if hunting isn't a sport (with rifle, shotgun, bow etc) then PROVE IT

I said it is a sport. It is a sport for sadistic psychopaths. That is the very essence of killing innocent animals for fun. That is how many mass murderers start out. Killing rabbits and squirrels for fun.

or admit you're ignorant of the topic and just wanna troll

Me Troll? LOL. Says the guy who wont stop making Red Herring and Straw Man arguments constantly ignoring my actual argument that now seems to want to pretend he is a victim of some accusation that never happened. LOL.


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[Lursa]

First admit that I did not call you Sadistic or Psychopathic.

Is that demand anything like getting you to admit someone else didnt lie after you've accused it over and over? Esp. when you cant provide the quotes where they did? Always good to get a feel for the other side of things in a debate, right? "Honesty is the best policy?"

 

[RF667799]

First admit that I did not call you Sadistic or Psychopathic.



I made an argument about rifle hunting being cowardly and knife hunting being respectful. Nobody forced you to challenge it.



I said it is a sport. It is a sport for sadistic psychopaths. That is the very essence of killing innocent animals for fun. That is how many mass murderers start out. Killing rabbits and squirrels for fun.

Many more of them start out drinking milk.

Me Troll? LOL. Says the guy who wont stop making Red Herring and Straw Man arguments constantly ignoring my actual argument that now seems to want to pretend he is a victim of some accusation that never happened. LOL.


.

Maybe the New Zealand tradition has it that stabbing animals with knives to harvest them is "respectful".

 

[Bodi]

Many more of them start out drinking milk.



Maybe the New Zealand tradition has it that stabbing animals with knives to harvest them is "respectful".

Straw Man... if you were funny it would help make the Trolling palpable ... but alas.



.